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Lane Taylor agrees to restructure contract

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by PackAttack12, May 30, 2020.

  1. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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  2. Etphonehomez

    Etphonehomez Cheesehead

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    Now we can finally sign Clowney
     
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  3. Taryn Miller

    Taryn Miller Cheesehead

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    'Snacks' for the team?
     
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  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's not too surprising the Packers would want to keep Taylor around at a reduced cost given the lack of experience on the OL bench. Patrick has 642 career offensive snaps, with his only respectable play at center. Light has 177 career offensive snaps, all uninspiring. I think that's the extent of snaps on this bench.

    Regardless of what one might think of the prospects of the day 3 picks or any of the other guys, the truncated offseason program and maybe limited or no preseason, having these guys prepped and ready is more in doubt than even in the usual questionable scenario.

    When discussing Taylor, I bring up the fact that he proved adequate as a LT when Bakhtiari went out for a some games in 2017. Assuming he's fully recovered from the bicep injury, and given the truncated prep time and unknowns with these other players, who would you have better than Taylor as a backup LT or even LG? Would you want to take the risk the answer is "nobody"?

    It's worth recalling that Jenkins was not deemed quite ready for prime time to start last season, with Taylor getting the start in the first two games before being injured, with Jenkins being a stronger prospect than any of the left side guys behind Taylor currently.

    Taylor was an expensive insurance policy at his former cap number. His new numbers look like this according to overthecap:

    https://overthecap.com/player/lane-taylor/2559/

    As things stand now, you would expect Taylor to earn those per game bonuses for a cap cost of $2.4 mil. That becomes a reasonable left side insurance policy.

    Now, if one of the other guys proves to be a revalation for left side play by the time we get close to cut downs, Taylor's new numbers would make for a more appealing trade prospect. Somebody's LG might not be able suit up come the start of the season. That would require eating $1.35 mil in dead cap, with $1.05 mil in cap savings plus whatever low round pick you might be able to get. Barring a trade, expect Taylor to be around for the duration.

    I like this "split the difference" move better than just outright cutting him for cap savings.
     
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  5. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    Nice move here. We likely locked up a solid veteran backup at 2 OL positions and cut our expenses. The question now is, would Gute be willing to apply that $savings$ to shore up another weakness with a more proven veteran? While it’s small consolation after such a polarizing draft, it could go a long ways to bring back say... Clay or Mike for a 1 year deal at a bargain (under <$3 mil).
     
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  6. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    They say not ready because he was a rookie. No other reason and obviously untrue. Happens a lot I think. No real thought went into it. Or just bad judges of play. Bugs me.
     
  7. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    I read they cut his salary to 1 1/2 million with 1 1/2 million more possible. I wonder what kind of incentives he has in order to get the boost in salary.
     
  8. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yeah, that must be it. No real thought went into it.

    Here's the deal. A player can practice and play preseaon games with high promise until the cows come home and you won't know what you've got until you put him in a money game. So there's that thing we see a lot--stong preseasons against sub-par competition that fails to translate to the money games.

    Thoughts go into it, and the key thought is risk aversion in going with a known quantity over the unknown. It's not like Taylor was dead weight. He was a respectable starting LG, not somebody you'd call "good" at it, but adequate. You might throw a Savage into a 100% snap count projection after trading up in the first round for him with no other respectable, seasoned alternatives in sight. This was not that.

    I expected Taylor to start the season and Jenkins to get his shot sometime during the season, maybe as soon as Taylor had a bad game or an injury required a line shuffle. He could have been the starting center before he ever saw LG if the first thing that happened was Linsley going down. He was going to get that shot sooner or later. So, Taylor gets injured and it came earlier than expected. Lucky it worked out.

    Do you want to say LaFleur is a dummy? I don't believe that's the case.
     
  9. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

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    Instatransfer that money into Kenny Clark's bank account.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Well, that's what overthecap says in their Contract Notes. Demovsky said the same thing. But overthecap's table shows something different:

    https://overthecap.com/player/lane-taylor/2559/

    spotrac shows the $1.5 mil base salary, but the incentives shown are less than $1.5 mil and the workout bonus and probably the small roster bonus are just for getting through to the opening day roster. Note the roster bonus is a proration carryover from his last contract counting against the cap.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/lane-taylor-12766/

    This will get cleared up sooner or later--overthecap and spotrac nearly always get to the same point eventually on contract details, but the specifics of the performance bonuses, if any, are rarely disclosed. That eventual agreement between the two sites is the point where I'd consider we have verification of non-performance bonus provisions.

    If there's performance bonuses involved other than per game roster bonuses, you'd reckon it would be for games played on offense, offensive snap counts, that sort of thing. He's an injury insurance policy. If he's pressed into playing he might earn more if he gets the games/snaps over a threshhold if that's the kind of bonus they are including. Right now I'd say he's the backup LT as well as LG.

    I don't see where he could be competing for a starting job as Demovsky said. If you ask me he's been as good a LG as Turner was a RG last season, Turner being disappointing given that contract. But Taylor hasn't played on the right side so competing there is not plausible, and even if he did pushing a well paid FA acquisition to the bench after one year is a high bar to clear.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Given an either/or proposition, I'd instatransfer it to Bakhtiari's assuming the medicals on his back are clean. We don't know that one way or another, and given how nobody has shown up at Lambeau yet the Packers probably don't have the answer to that question either.

    Frankly, there's not much sense in that either at this juncture, or any player getting a sizable extension with a big fat signing bonus, not until there is some handle on how many 2020 games will be played, what the revenue declines look like with empty stadiums or not, and the consequential 2021 cap outlook. This is one of those moments where "don't just do something, stand there" makes the most sense.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I would actually prefer Gutekunst to use the money to improve the roster instead of bringing back former fan favorites.

    The Packers signed Taylor to an extension 1 1/2 years before drafting Jenkins. It's strange to criticize the move because of Elgton's success during his rookie campaign.
     
  13. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Only criticizing because he is really that much better.
     
  14. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    I am still wondering if some of Turner's problems had to do with bad communication with Linsley. Granted, there seemed to be good enough communication with Jenkins. I have hope that Turner will play well this year.
     
  15. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    My point is that the Packers couldn't have known they would be able to draft a stud left guard in Jenkins at the time they extended Taylor.
     
  16. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Well, I never talked about Taylor's extension. I was talking about not starting Jenkins right away. Though in hindsight, we paid too much for him and for Linsley.
     
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's 20/20 highsight. And he wasn't that much better. He had his rookie issues, including 8 enforced penalties, 5 for holding. For perspective, the 5 holding penalties, the drive killers, ranked tied for 8th. among O-Lineman. Baktiari had similar issues in his first couple years and once he cleaned that up he started making Pro Bowls and an All Pro.

    You don't want to mix in a justified upside projection going forward with what actually happened or worse, 20/20 hindsight. Sure, he's a top talent at the position, maybe a top 10 LG right now, but you only know that after the fact and it's not like Taylor was a slug. Like I said before, there are often camp and preseason "stars" who don't show up when the bright lights go on.

    As an aside, I noticed Bakhtiari got tagged for 12 enforced penalties, 6 for holding, a regression back to his first couple of years. He was missing practice with a back issue as early as Sept. 12 and may have been playing through that issue throughout the season. That bears watching as something that might clear up with an offseason of R&R or something more serious like arthitis setting in.

    For perspective, the other 3 OL starters got tagged for 2 holding penalties combined last season, one each for Linsley and Bulaga, none for Turner. Those 3 guys had a total of 6 penalties altogher. While one would expect more holding on the blind side in lieu of a sack from where the hits that put the QB in the tent or worse are most likely to happen, that much holding is an issue and might explain something about the QB bailing right more often than you'd like to see.

    I don't know why people turn meaningful differences into Grand Canyons, in this case one of 13-3 coaching stupidity. I want to call this the "Age of Hyperbole".
    Hindsight is the operable term. If you expect perfection you'll have to wait to meet your maker if you believe in that kind of thing. In the mean time, minimizing the big mistakes which are not always avoidable and taking the daily small ones in stride is the best perspective I can offer besides avoiding hyperbole. Not starting Jenkins in week 1 does not qualify as a big mistake.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  18. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Jenkins looks that much better to me. He looks a lot stronger and looks to get to the 2nd level. Very good balance. I don't think it is hindsight. Yeah, probably some rookie learning as to what he can do in the pros with holding. Although the coaching staff should have prepared him for that. But refs sometimes go after rookies.
     
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    When you use present tense with all those "looks" you should realize that hindsight is exactly what it looks like.

    That's more than enough for me for one weekend, even a rainy one.
     
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  20. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Well, when looked at that way of course it is hindsight. I can only see what I am able to see. Which does not include all the practices before the season even starts. But after seeing how he played; it looked obvious. Even with a few holding calls. Have a good Sunday!
     
  21. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    A few thoughts.

    Most guys would not be willing to do something like this to stick with a given team. I think it's really cool that Taylor was willing to take a hit to stick around.

    The Packers are going to be really crowded in camp along the offensive line. Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Linsley, Turner, Wagner, Taylor, Patrick, Runyan, and Hanson can all be considered to have a good shot at making the roster (obviously on a spectrum-- Bakh is a lock, Hanson will have to earn it, etc.). Then you have guys who will be fighting to make it, like Madison, Light, Nijman. Stepaniak seems like a PUP candidate, but if he's totally healthy then he's in the mix too.

    I still think Linsley could be a surprise cut or trade candidate.

    Keeping Taylor makes me wonder if there is a particular design in mind. Do they want to provide competition for Turner? Or do they want to free up Turner so that he can provide competition for Wagner? Or do they want to cut Linsley and move Jenkins to center? Or is it simply that they want to stack as much quality OL talent as they can and let it sort out?
     
  22. Fredrik87

    Fredrik87 Cheesehead

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    What about Tramon? I think at what he'd likely cost he'd be worth taking a chance on considering what we have at CB and his production over the past two seasons despite his age.
     
  23. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    My thought process is similar with this. However, IMO if Linsley goes it will be Patrick or Hanson to take reigns, having Taylor around though does open up the Turner to battle Wagner move which I kinda like the thought of that. Crowded field and in my opinion up until this point I wanted Linsley or Taylor cut despite the toughness of the call. I think this OL can absorb the cut of Linsley and that money can be better spent elsewhere to strengthen a big push.

    I also couldn't help but hope this Taylor savings means a "Snacks" Harrison type DL signing is coming!
     
  24. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    I would lean toward the latter.
     
  25. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    IF their plan is to start Taylor, I in ZERO way see them asking him to take a pay cut....
     

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