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Lack of Leadership on Defense

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Something that hasn't gotten talked about much: Jolly and Lattimore gave two impassioned speeches during halftime of the Cowboys game. While that's great they got the message across and the team clearly listened and appreciated what they had to say, it also speaks volumes on what kind of leadership we have on the defensive side of the ball (or maybe team-wide). Jolly is back after a 3-year hiatus and should be finding his place on this team. And Lattimore is a second-year, undrafted FA backup ILB. Where are Hawk, Claymaker, Raji, Burnett, and/or Williams filling the leadership void?! Teams need leaders. And those "star" players need to be both on-field and off-field leaders and be vocal when needed.
     
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  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Why do the stars have to be leaders? Do we know that those stars are always quiet? Do we know they are vocal but it doesnt work?

    Sometimes when a quiet person is vocal it works better..
     
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  3. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Well maybe they need to let Lattimore and Jollly speak every game because whatever they said hit home. I'm not saying these guys need to wait until they are down by 23 points to start balling but they need to come out hyped up and stay hyped up. This team look defeated and bored in the first half of the Dallas game and then hungry and desperate in the 2nd half. My comment to them is play the entire game like you are down by 23 and it's the 4th qrtr. With a sense of urgency start to finish.
     
  4. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree about the lack of leadership but I don't think it's as easy as saying so-and-so should step up and be a leader. IMO what would be worse than a lack of leadership from the players would be a player pretending to be a vocal leader. I'll bet the reason what Lattimore and Jolly said at halftime worked was they were very emotional and what they said obviously came from the heart. If they, or anyone else, tried to recreate that and it came off phoney, it'd do more harm than good IMO.
     
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  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And I have said it a few times in chat ...

    They didnt look like they played with heart..Then 2nd half they looked to play with more heart.
     
  6. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I've said it before here. Raji is a guy who needs someone next to him. He has been since highschool. He's not that "leadership" type.

    Clay seems like the type to lead by example, which is hard when you've injured a key component of your position, which probably also limits what he can do in the gym.

    Hawk doesn't seem like the kind of guy who commands respect, neither does Tray. Burnett hasn't been able to trust anybody, causing his play, and therefore his credibility to drop.

    Kuhn and James Jones are guys on offense who strike me as possible leaders, as is Sitton. Surprisingly enough, Quarless feels like he may have a bit of leader in him as well, though spilling the beans...
     
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  7. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    ....and it sounds like the guy who stepped into the leadership role and makes plays when he is on the field will once again sit behind brad freakin jones and his terrible contract.
     
  8. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Quite baffling imho, simply don't understand this, would really love to be able to watch practices to see if there is something we don't know compared to what we saw him do on the field when jones was out.
     
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  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Dancing Don seemed like a leader last week postgame!
     
  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Not as baffling as you think. 3 downs > 2. I said let Brad walk. We Chillar'd him. Latt has the same problem as Brad though, he has to see the play. Wouldn exactly trust Latt yet for singular reason that he's in a contract year, and our backup ILB's tend to look real good in limited action. Remember when Francois replaced Hawk a year or so back?
     
  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Maybe Oakland can release Woodson for us to claim him back, just for his leadership.
    And to replace MD Jennings back there..... behind Richardson.

    Actually, Oakland's defense has been so bad, I don't know about how Chuck is doing.... he was nowhere to be seen on TWO different Jamaal Charles 50-yard screen TDs last week, plus 3 other Charles TDs.

    Woodson was also a spectator of Nick Foles throwing SE7EN touchdowns in a game last month.
     
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  12. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Been saying this all year. People insist that he looks good. I don't see it often, kinda hurts to watch how far gone he is.
     
  13. gatorpack

    gatorpack Cheesehead

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    More like lack of playmakers!
     
  14. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I said a while back that the defense hasn't had a leader since Woodson left. Interesting about Jolly. I watched him on the sidelines a couple of times after some things had gone wrong on the field. He seemed genuinely pissed. Whether it's leadership or other factors we need the defense to come to each game with the intensity it showed in the second half of the Dallas game.
     
  15. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    The Packer defense is the side of the ball that Ted Thompson's "build through the draft" strategy hasn't worked. A good defense needs savvy veteran players who can make plays and lead and motivate "the kids." When the Packers have had good defenses during TT's administration in 2006-07 and 2009-10 it was after he signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett in 2006 free agency. He hasn't done anything in free agency since and except for Clay Matthews who has he come up with that's really paid off since?

    He should have learned from Ron Wolf. The outstanding defense the team had in the '90's was built through good free agent signings: Reggie White, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson. And a major trade for Eugene Robinson.

    Those kind of guys aren't around much anymore but TT needs to think seriously about making one or two significant free agency moves this coming off season on the defensive side if the Packers are going to get back to the Super Bowl next year.
     
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  16. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I loved those guys!
    They were veterans, and they were HUNGRY for a Super Bowl.

    There was a safety we could have had in FA, pretty cheap, before last season, LaRon Landry. He would have helped us a LOT as he's tough, mean, nasty, plus he has all those measurables that made him a top-5 overall draft pick about 6 years ago.

    Jerry Hughes, last year, same deal. Could have had him cheap (like Eugene Robinson was) and he would have been that perfect OLB comp to Matthews. Much better than Nick Perry and Mike Neal.

    The Seahawks added not one but TWO solid vets onto their DL this off-season. Guys like those can help more than draft picks quite often.

    Look at how we've lost 2+ seasons by relying, banking on the young safeties to emerge. They have not. One has already been released. None of the safeties, at all, this season, even have a single interception. That has to change soon. Burnett needs a pick of Big Ben today.
     
  17. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    It is a big gamble. Seahawks are over the cap next season - they have over $8M this season in dead money. Russel Wilson is going to cash in 2 years from now. The Hawks window is going to be very brief. As we have seen, the strongest team usually doesn't win the Superbowl - been that way for the last few years. Why? Even the most favored team is usually sitting at a 20% chance to win it all. So its a gamble for the Seahawks. They are not going to be able to keep all of their upcoming FA after acquiring other teams FAs or trades.

    So should the Packers dabble more in FAs? I don't think so. It is too risky for the long term good of the team. If it would guarrantee us a SB - of course. But it doesn't.
     
  18. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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  19. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    So then why are players always raving about AJ Hawk's leadership? That remark on Hawk and respect it not only baseless but completely at odds with everything coming out of that locker room.

    AJ Hawk provides a different kind of leadership. He's more of a classic stoic type. Back in 2010 Desmond Bishop used to get them fired up and ready to hit, play with violence. Hawk was there to steady the troops whenever the team found itself on the ropes, and even Bishop talked about this effect on himself. Since Bishop has been gone we've been missing the kind of passionate violent personality to fire this team up. IMHO I think that's why our Defense played better during that stretch with Lattimore playing instead of Jones, even though Matthews was missing.
     
  20. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Of course he was available on the cheap, Hughes did absolutely nothing in Indy and demonstrated less physical ability than Nick Perry. Hindsight is a great judge isn't it? Perry when healthy has been a playmaking beast, he has what 3 sack fumbles this year in limited action? Up until this season TT had no way of knowing Perry would struggle this much with injuries.
     

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