Julius Thomas for Randall Cobb?

[Mondio]

I remember Thomas short arming a bunch of stuff in their Super Bowl. Can't say I 'm a fan. I don't need much from my TE. Block well and run down the field and just hang on to the ball when it's thrown to you. I don't care about yards after catch or athletic ability or jack. To me, I TE needs the best hands on the field because they're going to get drilled at 9.5 yards when you need 9 for a first down. Just catch it and move the chains. Block when we run and we'll have all we need in a TE.

 

[PackManDan]

First of all let me be clear that I think it's a must for the Packers to re-sign Cobb.

But I want to reply to your criticism of Adams and put his rookie season into some perspective. It's not fair to compare his numbers to Beckham, Landry, Benjamin or Evans. None of these rookies had guys like Nelson and Cobb ranked ahead of them on the depth chart. In addition while Adams' numbers aren't spectacular he had more receptions during his rookie season than Nelson and Cobb and nearly as many yards as they did.

I expect him to turn into a reliable and consistent #3 WR starting next season.

Who is comparing him to ANYONE??? Certainly not me. Nowhere in my post did I compare him to anyone but himself. And him having guys like Cobb and Nelson in front of him on the depth chart has absolutely nothing to do with him not running the correct routes and dropping balls. There were countless times this season where him and Rodgers were not even close to being on the same page, and that I bet was as a result of him not running the correct route. Also there were more than a few times where he dropped balls. I'm not saying he sucks. He had an average rookie season and showed flashes of how good he can be. I think he will definitely move into the #2 spot....but not yet. He still needs to develop a little more.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Who is comparing him to ANYONE??? Certainly not me. Nowhere in my post did I compare him to anyone but himself. And him having guys like Cobb and Nelson in front of him on the depth chart has absolutely nothing to do with him not running the correct routes and dropping balls. There were countless times this season where him and Rodgers were not even close to being on the same page, and that I bet was as a result of him not running the correct route. Also there were more than a few times where he dropped balls. I'm not saying he sucks. He had an average rookie season and showed flashes of how good he can be. I think he will definitely move into the #2 spot....but not yet. He still needs to develop a little more.

Adams had the lowest drop rate of all Packers receivers with 5.06% (four in 79 targets). IMO if you're disappointed with Adams 2014 season you had wrong expectations for a Packers rookie WR.

 

[PackManDan]

Adams had the lowest drop rate of all Packers receivers with 5.06% (four in 79 targets). IMO if you're disappointed with Adams 2014 season you had wrong expectations for a Packers rookie WR.

You seem to have a habit of putting words in someone's mouth. First you tell me not to compare him to other players which I never did. Then you tell me I'm disappointed in his rookie season when I clearly said he had an average rookie season. My main point is that Adams is not close to passing Cobb as our #2 WR like the poster seemed to hint at, for the above mentioned reasons: he is still young and inexperienced, he had troubles running the correct routes etc...I was still pleased with him and I think he will be a great WR for us going forward. End of discussion.

 

[thequick12]

Cobb will not have a 12 m cap number and we don't need Thomas. Jordan Cameron if healthy would be worth a look. Best case scenario we can get Maxx williams Minnesota in the draft.

 

[OldSchool101]

Even trade ? Not a chance

 

[Shawnsta3]

I remember Thomas short arming a bunch of stuff in their Super Bowl. Can't say I 'm a fan. I don't need much from my TE. Block well and run down the field and just hang on to the ball when it's thrown to you. I don't care about yards after catch or athletic ability or jack. To me, I TE needs the best hands on the field because they're going to get drilled at 9.5 yards when you need 9 for a first down. Just catch it and move the chains. Block when we run and we'll have all we need in a TE.

See: Bubba Franks, Jason Witten etc.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Cobb will not have a 12 m cap number and we don't need Thomas. Jordan Cameron if healthy would be worth a look. Best case scenario we can get Maxx williams Minnesota in the draft.

Williams won't be the best case scenario for the Packers overall as Williams will probably be gone in the first round meaning the Packers won't be able to address more pressing needs at ILB and NT with it.

 

[PackerDNA]

Agree that Cobb won't carry a $12M cap number. Again, it's all in how you structure contracts; it's unlikeli that Cobb's cap number would hit 12M before the 3rd or 4th year. By then, they'd be more money and more options to either absorb the hit or deal with it.

 

[TJV]

I was pleased with Adams’ rookie season. On a team where the #1 WR caught 98 balls for more than 1,500 yards and the #2 WR had 91 receptions for almost 1,300 yards, Adams had 38 catches for 446 yards and 3 TDs. And in two playoff games he had 8 catches for 124 yards for one TD and 5 first downs. Being on the same page with Rodgers means reading the coverage on the fly and that takes game experience so of course he had ups and downs typical of a rookie WR, particularly in the Packers system. (Remember on Cobb’s first TD from scrimmage he ran the wrong route.) And Adams justified his reputation for very good hands. But IMO optimism about Adams doesn’t have much to do with retaining Cobb because Cobb excels in the slot and the Packers offense requires two good wide outs and a slot receiver and since they have that in place...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agree that Cobb won't carry a $12M cap number. Again, it's all in how you structure contracts; it's unlikeli that Cobb's cap number would hit 12M before the 3rd or 4th year. By then, they'd be more money and more options to either absorb the hit or deal with it.

The only way Cobb would carry a $12+ million cap hit in 2015 is if the Packers put the franchise tag on him.

 

[tynimiller]

Okay I've been thinking on this for days now...shoot weeks. I've tried and tried to keep putting aside my love for having Cobb on the team and come at it as unbiased as possible; look at it more from a numbers and business move.

Cobb, first and foremost is top 3 for his position of being a slot-receiver (some would argue higher but not many lower). The problem is though for years now we've gotten him at a steal and now unfortunately for us he didn't miss a step last season and probably played his way to the best possible scenario money wise for him. Yes, it all depends how they structure the contract...however I find it hard to state he needs to be priority #1 in our Free Agency.

Just like Favre before him Aaron makes receivers better than they really are...loved James Jones but totally different player without a G on his helmet...same with Jennings....and other receiver before them. I do foresee Cobb being a slot receiver doing good elsewhere as long as they have an above average competent QB...but do I see him continuing the blitzkrieg type performances we see in G at times? No...I sadly for his sake don't. The issue becomes for TT and others should they tie up a serious amount of Cap in Cobb....let's be honest it at minimum is gonna be a 8million dollar hit in year 1 of most likely any contract structure; not exactly chump change.

Add in some other Free Agency decisions which in my personal opinion must be answered or path decided prior to ever figuring out the Cobb deal.

#1 Bulaga
Say what you want he is a rock along a line which we cannot afford to let walk. To me and in my attempt to be as clinical about all this as possible, is the #1 priority. We have the best QB in the game presently I feel, a top tier RB and still a strong WR corps even if Cobb leaves. Bulaga walks and we are stuck with a void which I don't want to think about. So, before any Cobb direction is started sign Bulaga.

#2 Peppers
I'm not saying it is a Peppers or Cobb scenario...as a matter of fact pretty far from it. However, I do hope to see the Packers restructure with Peppers so as to lesson the Cap hit and (now you see it) allow more money to be shifted towards Cobb's contract if TT feels he must keep Cobb.

#3 Raji/Guion
Our D line issue of Raji most likely walking and now Letroy deciding to be an idiot leaves us having to at minimum decide a plan of attack here first. I still say if we give ARod a top 10 defense, I would say a SB appearance minimum occurs. This is where the groundwork for a great defense is laid and I don't think we can afford to avoid it.

#4 House/Williams
Much like #3 I feel the choice of how we handle this affects what ultimately we can throw Cobb's way. Williams offers a steady veteran hand and I feel will be cheaper option (easier to handle larger Cobb contract) but he shorter performance window. House may eliminate some of the funds that otherwise would go to Cobb....but solidify a very young yet promising DB collection here (Dix/Hayward/House/Shields/Burnett/Hyde/Richardson).

#5 ILB
Will TT decide to finally dip a toe into an "expensive" sure fire starter in FA....I think if he does it is at ILB...and to be honest signing a stud ILB who would instantly start without a doubt is a far great impact than Cobb could ever have on this team as much as I hate to admit it.

Now I realize I numbered those 5 things but truly I don't "necessarily" rank them in any particular order...but I do foresee a bigger impact on our W-L columns with their decisions than I do whether or not we re-sign Cobb. Brady makes do with a collection of cheaper options it seems every single year...and no offense to Brady but A-Rod is just as good if not better and we have Lacy.

Just some thoughts swirling as we enter into FA's I can't wait to see what we do. One thing is for sure we are gonna be big spenders in it....now whether that is on players of our own or outsiders we shall see, but we will be spending some serious cash for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just like Favre before him Aaron makes receivers better than they really are...loved James Jones but totally different player without a G on his helmet...same with Jennings....and other receiver before them. I do foresee Cobb being a slot receiver doing good elsewhere as long as they have an above average competent QB...but do I see him continuing the blitzkrieg type performances we see in G at times? No...I sadly for his sake don't. The issue becomes for TT and others should they tie up a serious amount of Cap in Cobb....let's be honest it at minimum is gonna be a 8million dollar hit in year 1 of most likely any contract structure; not exactly chump change.

Ron Wolf deeply regretted not providing Favre with more weapons at WR. If Thompson decides to let Cobb walk in free agency the Packers are pretty thin at receiver. IMO it's essential to keep Cobb in Green Bay.

Will TT decide to finally dip a toe into an "expensive" sure fire starter in FA....I think if he does it is at ILB...and to be honest signing a stud ILB who would instantly start without a doubt is a far great impact than Cobb could ever have on this team as much as I hate to admit it.

There aren't any impact ILBs available in free agency though. I expect Thompson to address the position early in the draft.

 

[tynimiller]

Ron Wolf deeply regretted not providing Favre with more weapons at WR. If Thompson decides to let Cobb walk in free agency the Packers are pretty thin at receiver. IMO it's essential to keep Cobb in Green Bay.

I too believe to an extent Ron Wolf was right to regret...however that doesn't mean spending round 10Million on Cobb is "justified" or "smart" per say. I agree, if Cobb walks it would leave us with the most unproven WR corps we've entered a season with in a while. However, I do strongly feel Davante proved chemistry is good and his future is bright towards the end of the season with Arod and will be an above average #2 if roster dictates he is needed to do so. I 100% was disappointed in Boykin in 2014...but the good news is I feel he felt the same way himself. He proved in 2013 that he and Arod have great chemistry and who is to say he can't do that again...he's also a cheap re-signing as a security blanket. Then you have Janis and Abbredis (sp) both coming back and we could always add a solid but affordable Veteran or if best available happens to be a WR in the draft pick up one that could hit ground running. Do I personally want Cobb back, yes....do I feel it is a must or even the smartest option, not sure. I trust TT, and if you asked me to bet my guess is he'll sign Cobb and waive Boykin and we'll draft another 4th-7th rounder this year as depth.

**However, perhaps it is my blind faith or hopeful homeritis kicking in I don't fear the losing of Cobb, re-signing of Boykin + a 2nd-4th round WR draft or good/affordable WR pick up in Free Agency as some do.

There aren't any impact ILBs available in free agency though. I expect Thompson to address the position early in the draft.

There are options MUCH better than we have. I still think Barrington is gonna be given a shot and Bradford I think has the raw skill to drop into coverage from ILB better than anyone we have currently....whether he matures into that role is the unknown. I'm a fan of if we delve into outside free agency we get a ILB of some kind. I don't care even if he is a run blocker and basically a 2 down kind of backer....we gotta improve here if we want to win. I think this truly comes down to whether TT feels they have a decent enough group here with a few possible gems to be polished that he can focus elsewhere....time will tell.

 

[Carl]

Williams won't be the best case scenario for the Packers overall as Williams will probably be gone in the first round meaning the Packers won't be able to address more pressing needs at ILB and NT with it.

If Williams is projected to go very high in the draft (I really don't know though) and falls to us, it would be a better pick than picking an ILB or NT who is rated much lower.

 

[tynimiller]

If Williams is projected to go very high in the draft (I really don't know though) and falls to us, it would be a better pick than picking an ILB or NT who is rated much lower.

I would agree with this. I still feel enough heart and skill is left at ILB or NT for a 2nd round steal.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

Even though I've said some less than kind things about Randall Cobb in the public forum, I sincerely hope that he just holds on a bit longer, signs a reasonable contract, and lives out his playing days in the green & gold. He's made so many critical plays, always seems to have a positive attitude, seems to have good chemistry with AR. How horrible would it be to see him go to some **** team like Cleveland or Jacksonville and probably end up getting crippled.

If the Packers let Randall Cob walk I just might go hang myself in the basement. I don't know too much about this Julius Thomas person but if he's got some ability sign him up and let's go win us another SuperBowl.

I really like Andrew Quarless but I'm not really convinced he's the answer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I too believe to an extent Ron Wolf was right to regret...however that doesn't mean spending round 10Million on Cobb is "justified" or "smart" per say. I agree, if Cobb walks it would leave us with the most unproven WR corps we've entered a season with in a while. However, I do strongly feel Davante proved chemistry is good and his future is bright towards the end of the season with Arod and will be an above average #2 if roster dictates he is needed to do so. I 100% was disappointed in Boykin in 2014...but the good news is I feel he felt the same way himself. He proved in 2013 that he and Arod have great chemistry and who is to say he can't do that again...he's also a cheap re-signing as a security blanket. Then you have Janis and Abbredis (sp) both coming back and we could always add a solid but affordable Veteran or if best available happens to be a WR in the draft pick up one that could hit ground running. Do I personally want Cobb back, yes....do I feel it is a must or even the smartest option, not sure. I trust TT, and if you asked me to bet my guess is he'll sign Cobb and waive Boykin and we'll draft another 4th-7th rounder this year as depth.

**However, perhaps it is my blind faith or hopeful homeritis kicking in I don't fear the losing of Cobb, re-signing of Boykin + a 2nd-4th round WR draft or good/affordable WR pick up in Free Agency as some do.

I expect Adams to develop into a reliable outside receiver but I don't see him having huge success in the slot.

Boykin was mostly succesful when Rodgers was injured in 2013 registering 33 of his 49 receptions during that time. Not sure he ever had great chemistry with Rodgers and he's for sure not capable of replacing Cobb in the slot.

Abbrederis has shown some promise but has to stay healthy and Janis will have to step up his game to earn Rodgers trust.

Once again if the Packers don't bring Cobb back the position needs an upgrade and I'm not convinced a rookie would be a sufficient improvement.

There are options MUCH better than we have. I still think Barrington is gonna be given a shot and Bradford I think has the raw skill to drop into coverage from ILB better than anyone we have currently....whether he matures into that role is the unknown. I'm a fan of if we delve into outside free agency we get a ILB of some kind. I don't care even if he is a run blocker and basically a 2 down kind of backer....we gotta improve here if we want to win. I think this truly comes down to whether TT feels they have a decent enough group here with a few possible gems to be polished that he can focus elsewhere....time will tell.

There are for sure much better ILBs available in the NFL, unfortunately not a lot of them are free agents this year. Spikes and Maualuga would be an upgrade though.

 

[Ace]

Even though I've said some less than kind things about Randall Cobb in the public forum, I sincerely hope that he just holds on a bit longer, signs a reasonable contract, and lives out his playing days in the green & gold. He's made so many critical plays, always seems to have a positive attitude, seems to have good chemistry with AR. How horrible would it be to see him go to some **** team like Cleveland or Jacksonville and probably end up getting crippled.

If the Packers let Randall Cob walk I just might go hang myself in the basement. I don't know too much about this Julius Thomas person but if he's got some ability sign him up and let's go win us another SuperBowl.

I really like Andrew Quarless but I'm not really convinced he's the answer.

Elite TE when healthy, the problem is he's already said he wants to be paid like a top TE in the league... see Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski contracts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Williams is projected to go very high in the draft (I really don't know though) and falls to us, it would be a better pick than picking an ILB or NT who is rated much lower.

While Williams is considered by some to be a first round pick he's not a top 15 prospect. I'd rather address the TE position later in the draft and I expect either an ILB or NT worth of being drafted late in the first round will be on the board at #30.

 

[TJV]

IMO the Packers could get by without Cobb against most of the teams on their regular season schedule, but I think he’s extremely important against good defenses and in the playoffs. Good defensive teams are able to take Nelson away (he had 7 total catches against NE and SEA), without Cobb more attention could be paid to Adams and the Packers don’t have another option on the same level as (even) Adams. Janis might … Abbrederis could … Boykin disappeared and getting even a talented rookie up to speed is difficult.

I looked at 5 games toward the end of the season, the playoff games against SEA & DAL; DET, BUF and NE. In those games Cobb had 33 catches for 439 yards and 3 TDs. Jordy had 20 for 287 and 1 TD. Adams had 15 catches for 251 and 1 TD. I’d hate to see those numbers with an inexperienced WR in the place of Cobb, even with the best QB in the league throwing to them.

Thompson struck gold with the 64th pick of the 2011 draft: Cobb is one of the, if not the best slot receiver in the league. We all know Thompson’s MO for building teams relies more on drafting and developing talent than any other GM in the league. The crucial element of his MO for long-term success is holding onto to the core players they’ve drafted and developed. Of course not at any price, but Randall Cobb needs to remain a Packer.

 

[Ace]

IMO the Packers could get by without Cobb against most of the teams on their regular season schedule, but I think he’s extremely important against good defenses and in the playoffs. Good defensive teams are able to take Nelson away (he had 7 total catches against NE and SEA), without Cobb more attention could be paid to Adams and the Packers don’t have another option on the same level as (even) Adams. Janis might … Abbrederis could … Boykin disappeared and getting even a talented rookie up to speed is difficult.

I looked at 5 games toward the end of the season, the playoff games against SEA & DAL; DET, BUF and NE. In those games Cobb had 33 catches for 439 yards and 3 TDs. Jordy had 20 for 287 and 1 TD. Adams had 15 catches for 251 and 1 TD. I’d hate to see those numbers with an inexperienced WR in the place of Cobb, even with the best QB in the league throwing to them.

Thompson struck gold with the 64th pick of the 2011 draft: Cobb is one of the, if not the best slot receiver in the league. We all know Thompson’s MO for building teams relies more on drafting and developing talent than any other GM in the league. The crucial element of his MO for long-term success is holding onto to the core players they’ve drafted and developed. Of course not at any price, but Randall Cobb needs to remain a Packer.

This says it all right here.

 

[sschind]

IMO the Packers could get by without Cobb against most of the teams on their regular season schedule, but I think he’s extremely important against good defenses and in the playoffs. Good defensive teams are able to take Nelson away (he had 7 total catches against NE and SEA), without Cobb more attention could be paid to Adams and the Packers don’t have another option on the same level as (even) Adams. Janis might … Abbrederis could … Boykin disappeared and getting even a talented rookie up to speed is difficult.

I looked at 5 games toward the end of the season, the playoff games against SEA & DAL; DET, BUF and NE. In those games Cobb had 33 catches for 439 yards and 3 TDs. Jordy had 20 for 287 and 1 TD. Adams had 15 catches for 251 and 1 TD. I’d hate to see those numbers with an inexperienced WR in the place of Cobb, even with the best QB in the league throwing to them.

Thompson struck gold with the 64th pick of the 2011 draft: Cobb is one of the, if not the best slot receiver in the league. We all know Thompson’s MO for building teams relies more on drafting and developing talent than any other GM in the league. The crucial element of his MO for long-term success is holding onto to the core players they’ve drafted and developed. Of course not at any price, but Randall Cobb needs to remain a Packer.

very well said as usual ThxJack

 

[HardRightEdge]

Jimmy Graham is the highest paid TE in the league on a per year basis with a $10 mil average over 4 yrs. with $13 mil guaranteed. Gronk is at $9 mil per year under a 6 year deal also with a $13 mil guarantee. Those are Thomas' benchmarks:

http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end

Cobb's slot receiver benchmark would be Victor Cruz at $8.6 mil over 5 years with $16 mil guaranteed.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

There's not likely to be a great deal of difference between Thomas' and Cobb's eventual contracts...a mil or two perhaps.

Thomas, like Finley, wouldn't qualify as passable at in-line run blocking. He spends much of his time running out of the slot or wideout.

It should be clear the Packers can't afford both. Allocating $50 mil per year to the QB and 3 receivers is untenable.

If Thomas could block there might be an argument to be made in going after him over signing Cobb. It we were talking about all-around players like Whitten or Hernandez in their primes there might be an argument.

 

[adambr2]

Here's a hypothetical. Suppose Cobb gets blown away in free agency and does end up walking.

Meanwhile in Minnesota, Greg Jennings is sitting on an $11M cap number this year and will be asked to renegotiate his contract. If he doesn't and is cut, would he be an acceptable replacement to bring him for a cheaper James Jones-like deal?