Pugger
Cheesehead
Unfortunately we had to use Nelson as a returner out of necessity. Let's hope we aren't forced into that kind of situation again this season! 
Jordy Nelson
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claybillings
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What games were you watching? The moment someone came near him he would just stop his feet. Try and move side-to-side with no effect, and crumble to the ground. Or he might just fumble it like he did in Detroit on thanksgiving.
HE CAN'T RETURN ANYTHING
DergaSmash
Cheesehead
I'm not too worried about Nelson's return game. He was drafted to be a WR, let him play WR. He is awesome at that.
Not even a book to the library?
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
His average is definitely takable, especially with our KR unit blocking.
But Jordy does look lost back there, and he's too good of a WR to be back there. I want that position to go to a #5 WR or ideally the last CB on a roster. In this case, I'd like that to be speedy Sam Shields from The U, but if I had to put my money on someone being the guy week one in Philly, it would be on Starks.
But Jordy does look lost back there, and he's too good of a WR to be back there. I want that position to go to a #5 WR or ideally the last CB on a roster. In this case, I'd like that to be speedy Sam Shields from The U, but if I had to put my money on someone being the guy week one in Philly, it would be on Starks.
Aaron rodgers is god
Cheesehead
James Jones and Jordy Nelson are pretty equal at wide reciver. Personally i like Jordy better and i think he will have a better year.
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
I know Teddy has made some great personnel moves, great draft picks.
But one reason why he's only had 1 playoff game win in 6 years is because he's also had some bad personnel moves.
You are what your record is, and playoffs are where the measuring stick is.
In the 2008 Draft, Cal WR DeSean Jackson was rated very high in the experts rankings, and of the 5 magazines I have, he was rated ahead of Kansas State Ed McCaffrey clone Jordy Nelson.
So it was a surprise in round 2 that year when the Packers selected Jordy Nelson with Jackson still on board, leaving the Eagles the smaller playmaker who has boosted their special teams as well as electrifying their passing game.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight because you'd be hardpressed to find any experts ratings from that draft who had Nelson ahead of Jackson.
Example: Here are some ratings pre-draft from 2008.
WalterFootball is one of the best, and he rated DeSean Jackson as the #1 WR in that draft, which D-Jack has backed up:
#1
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DeSean Jackson, California Height: 5-9. Weight: 169.
Projected 40 Time: 4.32.
Combine 40 Time: 4.31.
Vertical: 34.5. Broad 10-2.
Projected Round: Top 25 Pick.
Some teams will shy away from DeSean Jackson because of his size. Those same teams probably passed up on Steve Smith (5-9, 185) too. Still, you have to wonder why Jackson hasn't been able to put on any weight during his collegiate career.
Jackson snapped out of his early-season slump, catching 11 passes for 160 yards and two touchdowns in an upset at Oregon.
Compared to Santana Moss. Returned four punts for touchdowns in 2006. There's talk that Jackson may run a 4.2, which would put him into the top five. He's the same size as Ted Ginn, and could be even faster. Jackson recorded 59 receptions, 1,060 yards and nine scores last year.
#9
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Jordy Nelson, Kansas State
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Height: 6-2. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Combine 40 Time: 4.49.
Vertical: 31. Broad .
Projected Round: 2-3.
I was glad to see Jordy Nelson follow up a solid Senior Bowl with a 4.49 at the combine. He could sneak into the second round.
From FootballsFuture:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/prospects/wr.html
Wide Receiver
- Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma
- DeSean Jackson, Cal
- James Hardy, Indiana
- Limas Sweed, Texas
- Devin Thomas, Michigan St.
- Mario Manningham, Michigan
- Earl Bennett, WR, Vanderbilt
- Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
- Harry Douglas, Louisville
- Andre Caldwell, Florida
The War Room Report
http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=1
1. Devin Thomas*, Michigan State, 6-2, 216, 4.40
2. Limas Sweed, Texas, 6-4, 219, 4.52
3. Desean Jackson*, Cal, 5-10, 169, 4.35
4. James Hardy*, Indiana, 6-5, 217, 4.51
5. Malcolm Kelly*, Oklahoma, 6-4, 224
6. Mario Manningham*, Michigan, 5-11, 181, 4.60
7. Early Doucet, LSU, 6-0, 209
8. Earl Bennett*, Vanderbilt, 5-11, 209, 4.48
9. Lavelle Hawkins, Cal, 5-11, 187, 4.52
10. Andre Caldwell, Florida, 6-0, 204, 4.37
11. Jordy Nelson, Kansas State, 6-3, 217, 4.51
RIVALS.com Frank Coyle
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1164&CID=767677
This year's wide receiver group is an above-average class. There are a half dozen juniors who expect to be selected in the top 100 choices.
Underclassman DeSean Jackson may be the first player selected at this position in the middle of the first round. There could be three No. 1 picks with prospects like Limas Sweed and Early Doucet coming off strong performances at the NFL Combine and others like James Hardy and Malcolm Kelly boasting prototype NFL size and speed.
DeSean Jackson, 5-11, 165, California
This all-purpose playmaker can be an impact performer as both a receiver and return specialist. He burned up the track at the Combine - as expected - and may be the top prospect selected at this position.
#16. Jordy Nelson, 6-2, 215, Kansas State
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
I'm just mad, in a terrible mood after this pathetic 7-3 loss.
In a game in which our WRs and TEs dropped and fumbled the game away, in a game in which our defense forced tons of punts, it sure would have been nice to steal a win with an electric punt return like the Bears did against us with Hester.
DeSean Jackson can do this. Jordy cannot.
And then tonight to see DeSean torch the Cowboys for 200 yards receiving?
Just a terrible day, and for me who really really wanted Jackson back then, it's salt in my wounds tonight.
I hate wasting SEASONS!!!!!! a YEAR is a long time, especially with old guys like Woodson and Driver running out of time. ****** me off to self-destruct all the time, and to never have a return stud.
In a game in which our WRs and TEs dropped and fumbled the game away, in a game in which our defense forced tons of punts, it sure would have been nice to steal a win with an electric punt return like the Bears did against us with Hester.
DeSean Jackson can do this. Jordy cannot.
And then tonight to see DeSean torch the Cowboys for 200 yards receiving?
Just a terrible day, and for me who really really wanted Jackson back then, it's salt in my wounds tonight.
I hate wasting SEASONS!!!!!! a YEAR is a long time, especially with old guys like Woodson and Driver running out of time. ****** me off to self-destruct all the time, and to never have a return stud.
aaronqb
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you are right
Oh I agree. I know people say hindsight is 20/20 but I also screamed for the packers to draft him. No one here needs to believe me, one of my good friends vouches whenever its brought up around friends as he was there during draft weekend when I was screaming he was the steal of the century.
But at this point its too late to complain about not drafting a probowler that was taken later in the draft.
Incubes12
Bay Harbor Butcher?
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but this kind of stuff happens all the time. Imagine if the 9ers had drafted a certain Aaron Rodgers out of Cal
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
Sure, as I said, TT has hit on some great picks in his 6 years here, which is why we have so many playoff wins under him. One.
Nobody here wanted Jordy Nelson to be that pick. Cut the bullschit here. Nobody here wanted Justin Harrell to be that pick either. Let's be real.
For every Clay Matthews, there's a Brian Brohm. For every Aaron Rodgers, there's a Pat Lee. For every Greg Jennings, there's a Cory Rodgers. For every Nick Collins, there's an Aaron Rouse here.
DeSean Jackson was an obvious playmaker, an electric return man and lethal receiver. Jordy Nelson was taller, and stronger, and he had better character. Nobody in their right mind thought Nelson was a better football player than DeSean Jackson. I don't even think Ted thought that. But he knew Jordy was a solid, quiet locker room guy.
I'm with ivo on this one.
There was another draft, 1998, where I totally wanted the talented WR who slid to us, and our GM then chickened out on that guy, Randy Moss. Ron Wolf later admitted it was his biggest mistake ever as GM.
I can't imagine how much better our offense would be with DeSean Jackson out there.
This from Peter King this morning on CNNSI:
DeSean Jackson's big night; Spygate effect; Sal Alosi punishment - Peter King - SI.com
Nobody here wanted Jordy Nelson to be that pick. Cut the bullschit here. Nobody here wanted Justin Harrell to be that pick either. Let's be real.
For every Clay Matthews, there's a Brian Brohm. For every Aaron Rodgers, there's a Pat Lee. For every Greg Jennings, there's a Cory Rodgers. For every Nick Collins, there's an Aaron Rouse here.
DeSean Jackson was an obvious playmaker, an electric return man and lethal receiver. Jordy Nelson was taller, and stronger, and he had better character. Nobody in their right mind thought Nelson was a better football player than DeSean Jackson. I don't even think Ted thought that. But he knew Jordy was a solid, quiet locker room guy.
I'm with ivo on this one.
There was another draft, 1998, where I totally wanted the talented WR who slid to us, and our GM then chickened out on that guy, Randy Moss. Ron Wolf later admitted it was his biggest mistake ever as GM.
I can't imagine how much better our offense would be with DeSean Jackson out there.
This from Peter King this morning on CNNSI:
DeSean Jackson's big night; Spygate effect; Sal Alosi punishment - Peter King - SI.com
what is DeSean Jackson, other than the most exciting player right now in the NFL?
Vick and Jackson, combined, are the greatest show on turf right now, the reformed (by all indications) quarterback and the receiver who's running hard for the playoffs and for a new contract. They showed it last night in Dallas. With the game tied at 20 and the Eagles pinned at their nine-yard line, Vick threw a simple out pattern to Jackson near the left sideline, and he turned upfield, and ... well, I'll let him take it from there, sounding tired as the Eagles buses motored toward the team plane after midnight in Dallas:
"I was maybe 60 percent by that time in the game,'' Jackson said. "I hurt my ankle in the third quarter. Actually my foot. I didn't feel great. They asked me on the sideline, 'You want to go in and get it X-rayed?' I said, 'Nah. I can't leave my teammates out here like that.' And the ball came to me. Michael threw me a perfect pass, and I just tried to run away from people. It's instinct.''
Usually, Jackson would have left everyone in the dust. But Orlando Scandrick was on the verge of catching him around the Dallas 30, and, sensing him, Jackson turned on one last jet. It's all he had, and he finished the 91-yard touchdown going away. That gave the Eagles a 27-20 lead, which was soon 30-20, and they hung on for a 30-27 win.
What a performance by Jackson. He caught four balls for 210 yards, a 52.5-yard average per catch. For the year, he's blowing away the competition in the NFL with a 23.1-yard average per catch. Not that Jackson was a dud with Donovan McNabb -- he certainly was a major impact player last year -- but with Vick being a dual threat and the defense having to respect his ability to break the pocket, that's more potential open space for Jackson and Jeremy Maclin to make hay.
This is a topic for another day, but it's incumbent on the Eagles to do two things -- keep Vick from getting hit too much (I still am concerned about that; he takes too many shots, and not just the borderline ones that tick off Vick and Andy Reid) and sign him to a contract that will keep him an Eagle for his prime. Vick's too good, and his relationship with these two special receivers is too valuable for Philly to let dissolve.
"It's 7,'' Jackson said, speaking of Vick's number. "Working with Michael has been an incredibly experience. I love it. I look up to him like he's my big brother. We've gotten our reads down, and we're comfortable together.''
Jackson said he'd be fine for the Eagles' NFC East showdown Sunday against the Giants in what could be a division championship game. Which leads me to ...
Read more: DeSean Jackson's big night; Spygate effect; Sal Alosi punishment - Peter King - SI.com
Vick and Jackson, combined, are the greatest show on turf right now, the reformed (by all indications) quarterback and the receiver who's running hard for the playoffs and for a new contract. They showed it last night in Dallas. With the game tied at 20 and the Eagles pinned at their nine-yard line, Vick threw a simple out pattern to Jackson near the left sideline, and he turned upfield, and ... well, I'll let him take it from there, sounding tired as the Eagles buses motored toward the team plane after midnight in Dallas:
"I was maybe 60 percent by that time in the game,'' Jackson said. "I hurt my ankle in the third quarter. Actually my foot. I didn't feel great. They asked me on the sideline, 'You want to go in and get it X-rayed?' I said, 'Nah. I can't leave my teammates out here like that.' And the ball came to me. Michael threw me a perfect pass, and I just tried to run away from people. It's instinct.''
Usually, Jackson would have left everyone in the dust. But Orlando Scandrick was on the verge of catching him around the Dallas 30, and, sensing him, Jackson turned on one last jet. It's all he had, and he finished the 91-yard touchdown going away. That gave the Eagles a 27-20 lead, which was soon 30-20, and they hung on for a 30-27 win.
What a performance by Jackson. He caught four balls for 210 yards, a 52.5-yard average per catch. For the year, he's blowing away the competition in the NFL with a 23.1-yard average per catch. Not that Jackson was a dud with Donovan McNabb -- he certainly was a major impact player last year -- but with Vick being a dual threat and the defense having to respect his ability to break the pocket, that's more potential open space for Jackson and Jeremy Maclin to make hay.
This is a topic for another day, but it's incumbent on the Eagles to do two things -- keep Vick from getting hit too much (I still am concerned about that; he takes too many shots, and not just the borderline ones that tick off Vick and Andy Reid) and sign him to a contract that will keep him an Eagle for his prime. Vick's too good, and his relationship with these two special receivers is too valuable for Philly to let dissolve.
"It's 7,'' Jackson said, speaking of Vick's number. "Working with Michael has been an incredibly experience. I love it. I look up to him like he's my big brother. We've gotten our reads down, and we're comfortable together.''
Jackson said he'd be fine for the Eagles' NFC East showdown Sunday against the Giants in what could be a division championship game. Which leads me to ...
Read more: DeSean Jackson's big night; Spygate effect; Sal Alosi punishment - Peter King - SI.com
aaronqb
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you are right. should hit up Murphy for the GM job
AmishMafia
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That is great! If TT can continue to hit an impact player on 50% of his picks, he would be by far the Greatest GM of All Time!
In 5 drafts, TT has hit on AR, GJ, CM3, NC and JF as impact players. Most teams do not draft at a rate of 1 impact player per year. This is not including the solid players or those who may yet develop into impact players. Probably could have put a few more in there, like Raji and Sitton. Won't include Tramon - wasn't draftd.
So TT missed on this Jackson guy in the 2nd round by taking another WR. Sure I would love to have Chad Jackson instead of Greg Jennings, after all, CJ was ranked by all the publications and pundits to be a much better WR than Jennings. TT should definitely listen to the media and not his scouting staff.
oops. Wait a second. Wrong year. Yes, Desean Jackson would have been a better pick and TT should listen to the media and not his scouts.
OP
OP
TheGiftedApe
TheGiftedApe
ewwww, you all realize desean jackson will be asking for a trade out of philly very soon right, he is a low character guy, half teh time he scores he gets 15 yard penalties, not someone i want on the pack.
FrankRizzo
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This thread was about Jordy, and about Jordy and DeSean Jackson. Are you telling me that me and Ivo were the only guys here who were mad WHEN THAT PICK WAS ANNOUNCED?
So should every topic just be reverted to the ole "Well TT's hit on Rodgers and Matthews so he's great".... ????
The bottom line in this business, this sport, are Super Bowls, and playoffs.
On that respect, which we call the bottom line, what grade would you give TT's overall body of work if he finishes his 6th season as team architect in 3 weeks, and we miss the playoffs and still only have one long playoff game win to show for it (over the crappy Seachickens who we have seen since then are terrible).
Honestly, I'd say his past performance is worthy of a C+. Some nice work in a few regular seasons. A couple terrible seasons. A single playoff win is par for the course as most teams have as much over the past 6 years.
So should every topic just be reverted to the ole "Well TT's hit on Rodgers and Matthews so he's great".... ????
The bottom line in this business, this sport, are Super Bowls, and playoffs.
On that respect, which we call the bottom line, what grade would you give TT's overall body of work if he finishes his 6th season as team architect in 3 weeks, and we miss the playoffs and still only have one long playoff game win to show for it (over the crappy Seachickens who we have seen since then are terrible).
Honestly, I'd say his past performance is worthy of a C+. Some nice work in a few regular seasons. A couple terrible seasons. A single playoff win is par for the course as most teams have as much over the past 6 years.
aaronqb
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C+ may be a bit generous. He hasn't won anything. You are right
PackersRS
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Interestingly enough his grade changes game to game...
aaronqb
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you are right
AmishMafia
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What other picks did you know better than TT on?
Did you want Nick Collins or where you hoping for Earnest Shazor? Greg Jennings or Chad Jackson? Dustin Keller (1st rd) or Jermichael Finley? It is way too easy to look after the fact at a single instance or two, and try to paint TT as a fool. Am I surprised at some of his picks and dissappointed that he didn't agree with my evaluation and thoughts? All the time. Its just that after being wrong about Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, etc. I have learned that maybe TT with his vast experience, professional scouts, and trained medical staff, maybe he knows more than me, my Mel Kiper report, and my internet connection.
If you still doubt our GMs drafting ability, just compare him to other GMs in the NFL. Can you name a single GM who has definitely done better than TT at adding talent to their respective teams since TT has been with the Packers? I don't think you can.
FrankRizzo
Cheesehead
Again, Ted has hit on some that I wouldn't have, and you wouldn't have.
And he's missed on some that you and I wouldn't have missed on.
Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade.
Now saying Ted deserves an A because the team he inherited SIX YEARS ago was old? That's pretty ignorant in today's NFL.
Teams can reload in 2, 3 years in today's NFL.
The Cardinals were always a laughing stock. But they got washed up, unwanted, discarded QB Kurt Warner, and they had a magical run to a Super Bowl one year, then the next year made the playoffs again and outscored us. That win over us was as many playoff wins as we have in Ted Thompson's tenure here.
And this will be the 3rd straight year someone else has won our division.
If you grade on results, and not feathered optimism and praise from the media, you can't honestly give him an A for that. He's THE MAN responsible for the results.
If you give that overall body of work, results, an A, I wish I had you has my teacher all thru school. I'd have had straight A's and been valedictorian.
You can't grade on future expectations.
And he's missed on some that you and I wouldn't have missed on.
Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade.
Now saying Ted deserves an A because the team he inherited SIX YEARS ago was old? That's pretty ignorant in today's NFL.
Teams can reload in 2, 3 years in today's NFL.
The Cardinals were always a laughing stock. But they got washed up, unwanted, discarded QB Kurt Warner, and they had a magical run to a Super Bowl one year, then the next year made the playoffs again and outscored us. That win over us was as many playoff wins as we have in Ted Thompson's tenure here.
And this will be the 3rd straight year someone else has won our division.
If you grade on results, and not feathered optimism and praise from the media, you can't honestly give him an A for that. He's THE MAN responsible for the results.
If you give that overall body of work, results, an A, I wish I had you has my teacher all thru school. I'd have had straight A's and been valedictorian.
You can't grade on future expectations.
Cali Packer 14
Cheesehead
Although the debate on how to grade TT is very entertaining, I thought I would revisit the Jordy Nelson topic considering it's what got me here in the first place . . .
I agree with most of you on here, I think Jordy isn't utilized enough in the offense. This is coming from a guy who went to San Jose State with JJ. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big JJ supporter (he's a fellow SJSU Spartan afterall). I just think Jordy has more of a "Wes Welker" type of playmaking ability, which is what we need more of in our type of offense (in my opinion). We have a big play threat in Jennings, we have a work-horse veteran in DD, and a big target in Jer-Mike (when he's healthy). It only makes sense to me to utilize a weapon more like Jordy who could be great in the slot and capitalize on the "YAC."
Great discussion topic.
I agree with most of you on here, I think Jordy isn't utilized enough in the offense. This is coming from a guy who went to San Jose State with JJ. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big JJ supporter (he's a fellow SJSU Spartan afterall). I just think Jordy has more of a "Wes Welker" type of playmaking ability, which is what we need more of in our type of offense (in my opinion). We have a big play threat in Jennings, we have a work-horse veteran in DD, and a big target in Jer-Mike (when he's healthy). It only makes sense to me to utilize a weapon more like Jordy who could be great in the slot and capitalize on the "YAC."
Great discussion topic.
aaronqb
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you are right. thompson is not doing the job
DevilDon
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How did this go from Jordy Nelson to a draft thread?
I've been saying for as long as I've been a member here (not long) that the Packers need to get Jordy involved more. He's big, he's fast and he's sure handed.
My opinions on why he's not are two=fold. 1. JJ was drafted ahead of him and TT is stubborn about his picks, he wants them to work out as they are drafted. 2. Jordy is bigger, faster and more sure handed than JJ but he lacks the elusiveness for YAC which the Packers are obviously really high on.
You can all question why Jordy was selected, but I won't, I was delighted to see him picked. At the time, tall, fast, sure handed receivers were "in". And it makes sense to want one of those if you don't have a great receiving tight end.
As for the draft, I think every other team in the NFL recognizes that the Packers draft well with TT. I've seen it over these years with comments from other teams scouts. Nobody liked Neal instead of an OLB but I got it, it wasn't popular but it was really smart, wish he could have stayed healthy.
Drafting is an inexact science. I actually read on this forum where someone thought we should trade Finley for a 1st round draft pick to get another CM3! Like you just grab them in the draft and they're what they are supposed to be right?
Never forget that every single draft expert in the world at the time thought that Tony Mandarich was the right pick for Green Bay. Or should I say Tony ManI'mRich.
I've been saying for as long as I've been a member here (not long) that the Packers need to get Jordy involved more. He's big, he's fast and he's sure handed.
My opinions on why he's not are two=fold. 1. JJ was drafted ahead of him and TT is stubborn about his picks, he wants them to work out as they are drafted. 2. Jordy is bigger, faster and more sure handed than JJ but he lacks the elusiveness for YAC which the Packers are obviously really high on.
You can all question why Jordy was selected, but I won't, I was delighted to see him picked. At the time, tall, fast, sure handed receivers were "in". And it makes sense to want one of those if you don't have a great receiving tight end.
As for the draft, I think every other team in the NFL recognizes that the Packers draft well with TT. I've seen it over these years with comments from other teams scouts. Nobody liked Neal instead of an OLB but I got it, it wasn't popular but it was really smart, wish he could have stayed healthy.
Drafting is an inexact science. I actually read on this forum where someone thought we should trade Finley for a 1st round draft pick to get another CM3! Like you just grab them in the draft and they're what they are supposed to be right?
Never forget that every single draft expert in the world at the time thought that Tony Mandarich was the right pick for Green Bay. Or should I say Tony ManI'mRich.
aaronqb
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my bad
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