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Jones, Perry Shedding Bust Labels

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    http://packerstalk.com/2015/10/06/j..._campaign=Feed:+PackersTalk+(PackersTalk.com)

    There is a lot more to this article. Most players from the 2011-13 drafts have pretty well either become good players or busts. I'm still holding my opinions on Perry, Jones, and Mike Neal. There are a host of lower picks from 2013 that still need to prove themselves, but these three guys have been walking the tightrope of failure. Interesting that at least two of them are finally putting it together (hopefully).
     
  2. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    For Perry, I think getting healthy has been part of the turnaround. He had some nagging injuries the slowed his progress a bit. Another positive is the way Capers is using him - not as an every down player, but situationally. We have a lot of good players on the outside right now (Peppers, Perry, Neal, Elliott, Matthews at times, etc.) and rotating them to take advantage of their various skill sets has worked well so far.

    Datone Jones has stepped up recently, but I think he's a guy who might do better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. Still, it's nice to see him contributing.
     
  3. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Bust has always been a bad choice of words for either Perry or Jones. There's a difference between a bust and a player who hasn't lived up to expectations
     
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  4. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    And I think a lot of that was because of injury to themselves and others around them creating situations where they never got comfortable to play and they couldn't be used to their strengths because other pieces were missing.
     
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  5. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    Not only that but the original article seemed to imply people calling Mike Neal a bust. He wasnt even a first round pick and has been a valuable part of the defense for a while. Weird rating. It is almost like people think if a guy doesnt become a Pro Bowler he is a bust
     
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  6. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I think it's obvious at this point that Perry is miscast as an OLB in a 3-4. Perry said before the draft that he would prefer to be a DE in a 4-3 and he hasn't ever really shown the ability to play in space. He can rush the passer pretty well (when he came out Football Outsiders actually projected him as the best pass rushing DE in that draft class) but that's the extent of his ability at OLB.

    Jones is only in his third year. Anyone that was calling him a bust was being premature.
     
  7. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    Dont why that is obvious this year. Perry has been playing very well for the Packers so far.
     
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  8. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    The trouble is that 34 OLBs with ready made NFL bodies, or even bodies that could be bulked up into NFL bodies are hard to find. So you're left with converting 43 DEs and hoping their skills transfer, like with Matthews or apparently Jayrone Elliot.

    Perry looks terrible in space against real ball carriers, his zone drops are better than some might expect. His most consistent strength has been the way he sets the edge on run plays, no one on our squad does this better. As a pass rusher he has mediocre feet, and not much lateral agility. But he does have brutal strength and explosion which you see when he's able to get under an OTs pads. He mixes in the occasional jet edge rush where he uses his explosive first steps and bending ability to get low and fast around the corner. He also gets to the quarterback with violence, his ratio of sack fumbles to plain old sacks is just ridiculous. He has 13 total sacks in his career, if you count that BS roughing the passer call against Indy in 2012, and 6 forced fumbles. That is just ridiculous.

    Perry is never going to be an elite edge rusher but I could see him being a good one if he could stay healthy. If relatively healthy and receiving starter reps for 16 games Id expect 8-10 sacks for the season.

    EDIT: Jones problem has always been that at his best position Mike Daniels is a better player.
     
  9. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    When Perry is healthy, I think he is great for this defense. He's very strong, he can set an edge and let quicker guys fly around. Somebody has to. he can run tackles and TE's over on his way to the QB which is nice because it is a rush that doesn't create an escape route for the qb, it plugs them and squeezes the pocket. We need guys that can take the man in front of them and squeeze that pocket. If you're depending on guys to beat their man at the line to get to the qb, you get lanes to escape all over and leave your D very vulnerable.
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think that Perry and Jones are both only average players and you expect more out of first-round picks.
     
  11. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    That's true, but i'm mostly beyond caring about the round anymore. I think when you hit on an early round, the ceiling can be a bit higher, but then we have Tauschers, and Daniels, and Drivers that happen too. If a guy can fill a good role on this team, i'm happy. When Perry has been healthy, he may not be a super star, but I think he's better than average in what he can do, and allow this defense to do with him on the field doing what he does.
     
  12. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Perry has rushed the passer well. He doesn't do well playing in space, which is something OLBs need to do at least decently. The thing he does well is the thing he would be able to do more often as a 4-3 DE. That's why it's obvious.
     
  13. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Perry was HUGE for a 3-4 OLB prospect. This wasn't a case of taking a small DE from college and moving him to OLB. This was a case of taking a 271lb DE and moving him to OLB. Rookies almost always GAIN weight in the NFL (unless they're not in good shape coming into the league but that wasn't the case with Perry).

    With starter snaps he might very well hit those numbers but it wouldn't be worth it since the opponent would just take advantage of his weaknesses against the run and in coverage. If you just want him to rush the passer, then his position would really be a DE. Despite his size he's not really that great against the run. The coaches don't put him in on run downs (he's only played 32 run snaps this year) and in 32 snaps against the run he has 3 missed tackles. At defensive end he would probably play the run better since he'd just be able to anchor but from OLB he has to play in space to go get the RB and he's just too big to do that effectively.
     
  14. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Perry's best attribute is setting the edge on running plays. I wouldn't say his playing against the run is a weakness. Coverage is definitely a weakness but not his run support. It's just a matter of scheme and right now theyd rather have say Peppers attacking the line and setting those edges then Perry

    I agree that he would've been a better 4-3 end but it's not like he's a bad OLB. Just not a probowler
     
  15. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    everyone looks better with the dline being as great as they have been.
     
  16. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    I think they both are players that might have greater success if they were playing for a different team. They aren't a centerpiece player here because our defense has been centered around other players at other positions.
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    With Thompson using a first-round pick on both of them I think the expectation was for them to be centerpieces of the defense. That hasnĀ“t happened because of injuries and their performance though.
     
  18. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Perry is bad in space, but hes physical as hell at the point of attack. Hes probably one of the strongest guys on our defense.
     
  19. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Man. When did draft picks only get two years to prove they can play before fans start talking about them being disappointing?
     
  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, Perry is in his fourth season now and the Packers, by declining their fifth-year option on him, seem to be kind of disappointed with him as well.
     
  21. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    Given that rookies get four-year contracts, how long should they get before showing promise?
     
  22. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    For a very, very long time.
     
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  23. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I thought Perry looked promising from some of his first snaps in the NFL, including that BS roughing call when he had a sack fumble and buried Luck at quarterback. Problem was he was always injured pretty much after that. If not for injuries I think people overall would be happy with his production. Not matthews level, but important to the defense.
     
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  24. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    Many 1st n 2nd day draft picks are like Good wines. They get better with age. We are now getting the results from several players who we knew had potential but needed to mature. If we hold our own as a top 8 D or better we are in for a real treat this year.
     
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  25. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    Four preseason games.:whistling:
     
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