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JFK Assassination

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by cheesey, May 29, 2007.

  1. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I just HAVE to ask. How many of you remember when President Kennedy was killed? Do you believe that Lee Harvey Oswald did it, or do you believe it was a conspiricy?
    I have read many books on it, and always tried to figure out what really went on. What are any of your ideas on what happened?
     
  2. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

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    I was in Sophomore English class when it was announced over the PA.
    We were immediately released from school.

    I don't believe that 1 dumb commie could have pulled that off by himself.
    There has to be more to it.

    JFK would have been 90 years old today.
     
  3. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

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    I was not born until 1968. But I am sure that somehow TT will get blamed for it. :rotflmao:
     
  4. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    LOLOLOL!!!! :rotflmao:
    I was 6 years old at the time. It happened on the Friday before the opening of deer hunting season in Wisconsin. I was young, but I remember my Mom crying alot, and she had the radio and TV both on. I really couldn't grasp what had happened, but i knew it was bad cause my Mom would stop crying, then start again all day.
    I remember my Dad standing in the kitchen, and asking my Mom "Do you want me to stay home? I won't go hunting if you want me to stay home." She told him "No, you go, I'll be ok."
    I also don't believe that Oswald did it, or IF he did he wasn't acting alone. Too much evidence has been "lost" that would have proved a single gunman, or proved that more then one guy did it. The President's brain "dissappeared" which would have shown how many bullets hit him in the head. There would have been bullet fragments and bullet paths that would have shown in the brain. Now....the biggest murder in the century, of the leader of our country the victim, and they LOSE the brain?
    And being that so much has been lost, and the mysterious deaths of so many eye witnesses just adds to the mystery.
    I don't think we will ever know the REAL truth of what happened.
     
  5. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    lets see he was killed by someone
     
  6. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Yes.....thats obvious.......but its NOT obvious by whom.
    Immediatly after the murder, evidence was lost, eye witnesses were ignored, the investigation was messed up on all levels.
    You would think a case as important as this would be the best investigated case. But thats not how it went.
    I think it was a "rush to judgement", just to make it LOOK like it was done correctly.
     
  7. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    I read an interesting book that (in my mind) showed how Oswalt shot him and in reaction to the shots, a secret service guy in the car behind him stood up as the car sped up and his gun accidently went off, shooting both Kennedy and the other guy (can't remember his name). Only resonable answer for the mysterious turning bullet. Also, if you recall, LBJ was not fond at all of the Sercret Service. Maybe because he knows what really happened. And let's face it, that is a perfect reason for the government to cover it up.
     
  8. vikefan

    vikefan Cheesehead

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    Oswald did it alone, imo.
    Vincent Bugliosi has written a book recently that just takes the conspiracies apart.

    Anyway, if people high up couldn't cover up a lousy burglary [Watergate], I doubt a presidential assassination could be.
     
  9. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I haven't done a whole lot of reading into this, or know a great deal about it, but I the tidbits I have seen make it seem very fishy that Oswald would be alone.

    Also, I just think it is more than coincidence that his brother BK also died, I'd have thought they'd take security measures to the nth degree after what happened with JFK to make sure Bobby was safe.

    From the pieces I have seen of JFK, he seemed like an great speaker.
     
  10. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I see the point made here, but don't you think assassinating a president is much far more serious than a burglary? I think you keep the lid a helluva lot tighter on a murder than a burglary.

    Why did they lock the files for 50 years? Was it to protect those involved and when the truth was out, if ever, they wouldn't be prosecuted?
     
  11. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    First.....i want to thank all that have commented so far. I ALWAYS enjoy discussing this subject, as there are SO many different views, and none of them can be proved beyond a doubt.
    The rifle that was supposedly used by Oswald was a VERY poor rifle for accuracy, or for shooting fast. It was a "mail order" old russian bolt action. They did tests by a sharp shooter to see if he could get the 3 supposed shots Oswald took off fast enough in the allowed time, and he got the shots off, but the accuracy was poor. Now, you also have to remember, Oswald was shooting at a MOVING target on top of this. And it's well known that the limo jerked almost to a stop after the second shot, before speeding off. So it wasn't even moving at a constant speed which would have made it easier to follow with a scope.
    Another point is, the motorcycle policeman that was riding to the back left of the limo was splattered by blood and brain matter. Had the head shot only come from behind (where Oswald was), he shouldn't have got it all over him. A shot from the back would have splattered just forward, over the occupants in FRONT of Kennedy. To me, it was 2 shots hitting almost at the same time, from the front and the back.
    And then of course we have Oswald being murdered by Jack Ruby in the basement of the Dallas Police station. Thus, silencing him from "blowing the whistle" on anyone that he might have been able to finger. And keeping him from defending himself against the charges.
    I once saw a film clip of Jack Ruby (it was on TV, but I don't remember the name of the show) He was in prison, and they asked him WHY he killed Oswald. He said something to the affect that "I want to go to Washington, and then I will tell why I did it. Otherwise no one will ever know the truth of why I did it."
    He made SEVERAL requests to go to Washington, and was turned down. He died shortly after that in prison, of cancer (supposedly).
    It just adds to the mystery. Just another piece of evidence that wasn't followed up on.
     
  12. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    To me the Warren report was hastly done and somehow one must believe that, even though I don't blame Earl Warren, the pressure from D.C. was intense to brush it away as soon as possible. There was so much turmoil in the air with this country that Johnson and staff probably pressured this to be closed rapidly.

    IMO... this had more to do with Civil Rights and JFK stepping on Wallace's toes in Alabama than anything else. That is where my theories would start and to point only to Oswalt is a mistake in my book. Even if he pulled off the shootings themselves (which is questionable at best), there was assistance from somewhere.

    Does anyone know when the sealed reports are to be released?
     
  13. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I personally believe that Oswald did it on his own. If there is one conspiracy I COULD (but don't) hang my hat on it is that of organized crime pulling it off. Let's face it, the mob was integrally involved in his ascendency to the Presidency thanks to his criminal, bootlegger father Joe. Perhaps promises were made that were not kept, and let us not overlook younger brother Bobby's crusade against organized crime. Bugliosi's book, as mentioned earlier, shreds the conspiracy theories to bits.

    In the end, Kennedy was an entirely marginal President whose primary claim to fame is the fact he was Catholic, and he was killed. Funny how all his blunders (Bay of Pigs particularly) become footnotes to his assassination legacy.
     
  14. PackerLegend

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    Oswald wasnt the one who shot JFK there was another sniper who did it. It could be right it could be wrong who knows and we probably will never find out.
     
  15. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Lady Bird was behind the whole thing.
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't doubt that the Mob was involved. Like you said, the Kennedy fortune was built on illegal activity. Then JFK sends Bobby off as his "attack dog" against organized crime. Then of course, Bobby gets killed less then 5 years later when he is running for the presidency. And Martin Luther King Jr. gets murdered too.
    And it is true, that the bad things Kennedy did (including Marilyn Monroe) gets pushed aside because he was assassinated.
    I did hear also that he was about to pull the troops out of Vietnam, and that might be another reason why he was offed.
    Seeing Oswald's history listed as a poor marksman when he was in the Marines (i think it was Marines, it could be the Army, i don't remember for sure) makes me wonder how he could have been such a good shot with a very poor rifle from that distance.
    Also, one of the spent cartridges that was recovered from the 6th floor where they said he was, had a bend in it where the bullet would have sat. Anyone that knows anything about guns knows that there was NO WAY that that shell could have held a bullet in it in that condition. And just ejecting it from the rifle wouldn't have done that. So that seems to point to it being planted there as "evidence".
    I have read books 'for" and "against" conspiracy theories, and they all make good points. There isn't enough evidence on either side to say for certain which is true.
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    The rifle in question was tested, and every 2nd or 3rd shot, it made the crease in the shell casing that you refer to, cheesey.
     
  18. packerfan1245

    packerfan1245 Cheesehead

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    OLD PERSON ALERT
     
  19. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    The reason I discount the mob theory is this... why would they do something so public? Mob hits historically are out of the public eye with little chance of something linking it to them. Whomever wanted this done wanted it to be very public and took a huge chance. To me not the Mobs MO.
     
  20. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I never heard that. I don't see how a rifle ejecting the case could do that.
    The brass in a shell casing is pretty thick, and i would think if the rifle did that it would have to be some real jamming problem.
    (I'm not arguing with you, just trying to discuss what you said)
    If a guy was going to try to kill a president, wouldn't it be smarter to use a higher quality rifle? There were alot better ones available back then.
     
  21. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    HEY!!!!! I have 38 days left of "young person" before i become officially OLD!!! :thumbsup:
     
  22. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    The reason to me would be...........where else would they have access to the President? Plus, to go against their "normal" practices, and having an available patsy (Oswald) would take the eye off of them.
    Their were supposed Secret Service and Police in areas where the official report said there were no police or agents. They say these were people involved in the asassination.
    There was a second filming of the murder that was confiscated by a man that flashed a badge at the man taking the film. He gave up his camera to this man, and the film was never found.
    Plus, do you remember the mob murder of one of the big mob bosses and his driver in front of a New York restaurant? This was carried out by John Gotti (the "teflon Don"). This was a VERY public murder. So not all mob killings are done secretly.
    Like i said........the only way they could kill Kennedy would be out in public. Think about it.........could a President just dissappear with no one noticing? They would have to make it public to be able to distance themselves from it.
     
  23. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Ask yourselves this, "Why would the govetment cover it up?". Why would a conspirace theory be covered up? Cover ups are to conceal embarrasing acts. Hence why the Secret service accidently shooting Kennedy makes so much sense. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Oswald didn't shoot him. He absolutely did. However, his shots were the first and the third.

    Cheesy, I have seen balistic reports on bullets hitting gel heads. The splatter indeed comes back toward the shooter. The head shot, if done by Oswald, would have entered the back right skull of Kennedy, TAKEN A 90* RIGHT TURN, and exited the front right skull. Turning while in nothing but brain matter. However, if you draw a line from the exit wound to the entrance wound, you extend the line directly to the rear left seat of the Secret Service chase car. The person in that seat had a Automatic gun and can be seen standing up as the car learches forward (setting off the gunshot). Ironically, He reitired immediately afterward and has never granted anyone an interview. The guy who wrote the book was an authority for over 40 years in government balistics. He wrote his report for the Warren commission report and it was suppressed. His theory explains, in detail, every shot and wound. Furthermore, in historical records, Bobby Kennedy was recorded calling the white house to tell them of the incident. His first words were "There has been an accident".

    Think about it. What would cause the people of the Country to lose confidence in their government more than to know that their own Secret Service shot their beloved President? This guy also points out though that oswalds first shot struck Kennedy in the neck, shattering his spinal cord and most likely would have left him a vegetable anyway. His second shot missed altogether. Many said they heard a different sounding gun on the second shot. That is becasue it was the SS's gun.

    It is the only explination that I have not been able to come up with realistic and plausible holes in it.
     
  24. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I never heard of the SS agent theory.
    If the first shot did shatter the President's spine, how come he still had the use of his hands? He reached up to his throat, and then right before the head shot he grabbed the right side of the top of the door.
    I also never heard that Bobby said there was an "accident".
    Do you have any web site that lists these things? (I'm just interested and wanted to read all of it if possible).
    A cover up could be if Johnson was somehow involved in it. I heard that he was on the outs with Kennedy, and that he was going to be replaced when Kennedy ran for his next term.
    Get someone to blame (Oswald) then silence him before he can prove his innocence, or finger others that might be involved.
     
  25. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Wasn't born till the 80's, but if there's truth to the facts from the movie "JFK" with Kevin Costner in it, it had to be more than one shooter.

    I think Oswald was involved, but that many more finished the job. And yes, Robbie's quickly following assassination make it that much more suspicious.


    "Back, (....) and to the left. Back, (....) and to the left. Back, (....) and to the left."
     

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