Peter king had an interesting part in MMQB today that included an interview with Bart Starr and some opinion on the HOF. Here is the section I am talking about. What do you guys make of it?
Most people in and out of football thought if a glory-days Packer ever got nominated by the committee, it'd be guard Jerry Kramer. But Robinson has been highly recommended by a string of Hall of Famers over the years.
As a sideline-to-sideline playmaker, he was in the shadow of middle linebacker Ray Nitschke for much of his prime, even though Robinson made more Pro Bowls, and Vince Lombardi always credited Robinson for his play, even though he didn't get the headlines of other Packer stars. "Outstanding player, and totally unselfish,'' Bart Starr told me Saturday from his Alabama home. "As a player, I don't recall anyone who had the sense of anticipation on the field Dave did. And I don't know if there was a better example on our championship teams of a player who constantly exhibited the commitment, unselfishness and team-player aspect of the game that coach Lombardi valued so highly. He is tremendously deserving."
I've heard from many of you critical of Robinson over Kramer. That's your right. I said on Twitter the other day, regarding Kramer, that the men in the media who watched him play for 15 years never voted him in, so we would essentially be overruling the decision of those who watched his entire career. Many of you have asked me on Twitter a logical question: Well, isn't that what the Senior Committee is for? That committee is set up to correct the perceived wrongs of the past.
Yes. Absolutely. But understand something about Robinson versus Kramer. Jerry Kramer retired following the 1968 season, and he was a Hall of Fame finalist nine times in his 15 seasons as a modern-era candidate: 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984 and 1987, and then once again as a Senior Committee nominee, in 1997, once his modern-era eligibility expired in 1988.
Kramer's case, then, has been heard before the full Hall of Fame selection committee 10 times over a 24-year span. Robinson has never had his case heard by the full selection committee. Culp has never had his case heard by the full selection committee.
I don't serve on the Senior Committee; nine of the 44 Hall of Fame selectors make up the committee, and five meet in Canton every August to nominate two candidates for selection. The committee doesn't have as its stated objective to get the cases of the forgotten heard. But those are the players who make the most sense to me to get in the room.
Back when the Pro Bowl meant something, Culp made five of them, Robinson three and Kramer three. Is it fair that Kramer should have an 11th time as a finalist while Robinson or Culp would again not have a chance to get in the room as a Hall finalist?
I've always thought we should hear the cases of seniors whose candidacies fell through the cracks. Kramer never fell through the cracks. He was judged by those who watched him play 10 times in 24 years and deemed not as worthy as others. The fact that he was named to the NFL's 50th Anniversary Team and then not to the Hall of Fame ... I have no explanation for something that happened in 1969, but it's obviously curious that many of the same voters who judged him one of the greatest linemen ever then didn't back him for the Hall of Fame.
One last point. On Saturday, Bart Starr told me there was one other candidate he felt strongly about. "Bob Skoronski,'' he said. "Forrest Gregg was great, and he protected me on my front side, at right tackle. Bob protected my blind side at left tackle, and you know how important the blind side is for protection to a quarterback. You'd look at their grades when the coaches graded the film after the game, and their grades were virtually the same, game after game. I am so disappointed he hasn't gotten in the Hall. Some of the guys [offensive linemen] who have been selected to the Hall over the years, I'm just aghast. Bob Skoronski is a level above them.''
Skoronski and Gregg were the bookend tackles on the five Green Bay championship teams. You could hear Starr's passion for Skoronski -- who played 146 games between 1956 and 1968 for the Packers -- come through on the phone.
I asked Starr if there were other players he wanted to recommend, and he said no.
Most people in and out of football thought if a glory-days Packer ever got nominated by the committee, it'd be guard Jerry Kramer. But Robinson has been highly recommended by a string of Hall of Famers over the years.
As a sideline-to-sideline playmaker, he was in the shadow of middle linebacker Ray Nitschke for much of his prime, even though Robinson made more Pro Bowls, and Vince Lombardi always credited Robinson for his play, even though he didn't get the headlines of other Packer stars. "Outstanding player, and totally unselfish,'' Bart Starr told me Saturday from his Alabama home. "As a player, I don't recall anyone who had the sense of anticipation on the field Dave did. And I don't know if there was a better example on our championship teams of a player who constantly exhibited the commitment, unselfishness and team-player aspect of the game that coach Lombardi valued so highly. He is tremendously deserving."
I've heard from many of you critical of Robinson over Kramer. That's your right. I said on Twitter the other day, regarding Kramer, that the men in the media who watched him play for 15 years never voted him in, so we would essentially be overruling the decision of those who watched his entire career. Many of you have asked me on Twitter a logical question: Well, isn't that what the Senior Committee is for? That committee is set up to correct the perceived wrongs of the past.
Yes. Absolutely. But understand something about Robinson versus Kramer. Jerry Kramer retired following the 1968 season, and he was a Hall of Fame finalist nine times in his 15 seasons as a modern-era candidate: 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984 and 1987, and then once again as a Senior Committee nominee, in 1997, once his modern-era eligibility expired in 1988.
Kramer's case, then, has been heard before the full Hall of Fame selection committee 10 times over a 24-year span. Robinson has never had his case heard by the full selection committee. Culp has never had his case heard by the full selection committee.
I don't serve on the Senior Committee; nine of the 44 Hall of Fame selectors make up the committee, and five meet in Canton every August to nominate two candidates for selection. The committee doesn't have as its stated objective to get the cases of the forgotten heard. But those are the players who make the most sense to me to get in the room.
Back when the Pro Bowl meant something, Culp made five of them, Robinson three and Kramer three. Is it fair that Kramer should have an 11th time as a finalist while Robinson or Culp would again not have a chance to get in the room as a Hall finalist?
I've always thought we should hear the cases of seniors whose candidacies fell through the cracks. Kramer never fell through the cracks. He was judged by those who watched him play 10 times in 24 years and deemed not as worthy as others. The fact that he was named to the NFL's 50th Anniversary Team and then not to the Hall of Fame ... I have no explanation for something that happened in 1969, but it's obviously curious that many of the same voters who judged him one of the greatest linemen ever then didn't back him for the Hall of Fame.
One last point. On Saturday, Bart Starr told me there was one other candidate he felt strongly about. "Bob Skoronski,'' he said. "Forrest Gregg was great, and he protected me on my front side, at right tackle. Bob protected my blind side at left tackle, and you know how important the blind side is for protection to a quarterback. You'd look at their grades when the coaches graded the film after the game, and their grades were virtually the same, game after game. I am so disappointed he hasn't gotten in the Hall. Some of the guys [offensive linemen] who have been selected to the Hall over the years, I'm just aghast. Bob Skoronski is a level above them.''
Skoronski and Gregg were the bookend tackles on the five Green Bay championship teams. You could hear Starr's passion for Skoronski -- who played 146 games between 1956 and 1968 for the Packers -- come through on the phone.
I asked Starr if there were other players he wanted to recommend, and he said no.
