JC Tretter still has plenty to prove

Einstein McFly

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Why would anyone judge a first time center on his first live one-on-one snaps in practice? There's a TON of football to be played this year folks, and we won't know exactly what Tretter is or isn't until way down the road.
 
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Why would anyone judge a first time center on his first live one-on-one snaps in practice? There's a TON of football to be played this year folks, and we won't know exactly what Tretter is or isn't until way down the road.

I agree, but if he continues to struggle during the preseason it won't take long to realize the Packers made a mistake at the center position.
 

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Why would anyone judge a first time center on his first live one-on-one snaps in practice? There's a TON of football to be played this year folks, and we won't know exactly what Tretter is or isn't until way down the road.

I'm judging him because he's the heir apparent, BECAUSE he hasn't played, and because I think the backup will and should be the starter. I'd have no problem having Tretter at Lang's spot, but not anchoring that line.
 

Einstein McFly

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I'm judging him because he's the heir apparent, BECAUSE he hasn't played, and because I think the backup will and should be the starter. I'd have no problem having Tretter at Lang's spot, but not anchoring that line.
Judging someone's future performance on their first live snaps is silly. Plenty of guys who look great in practice never do anything in a game, so though you may wish to wring your hands immediately, it won't be a reasonable thing to do until, I don't know, the third preseason game. Does it bother you that you're basing who the starter should be on what you've read about 1-on-1s and what you've seen in college film and the coaches are basing it on a whole year working with Tretter and what they've seen/know about Linsley? Until we see Tretter turn into Allen Barbre #2, I'll trust the coaches.
 
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I'm judging him because he's the heir apparent, BECAUSE he hasn't played, and because I think the backup will and should be the starter. I'd have no problem having Tretter at Lang's spot, but not anchoring that line.

Lang is a better than average RG, no need to replace him with a guy who has never played a down in the league or at the position.
 
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JBlood

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I hesitate to second guess TT, but I think it's a huge gamble not having an experienced center on the squad. I suppose he's of the opinion that there will be one available if needed.
 

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Its time to complete Rodgers O-line. Tretter is suposed to be the man. I read Linsley was a tank though. Hope he isnt playing too hurt... We might need him later if Tretter cant figure out how to block with his ivy league education. I guess we will see...
 

Pkrjones

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... We might need him later if Tretter cant figure out how to block with his ivy league education. I guess we will see...
I'd rather he use his Ivy League education to block with his shoulders, arms and hands! ;)

IMHO Tretter or Linsley will be fine once the OG's are next to them chipping the NT/DT's before heading out to level an ILB. Game day is fast approaching!
 
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I hesitate to second guess TT, but I think it's a huge gamble not having an experienced center on the squad. I suppose he's of the opinion that there will be one available if needed.

I don't think there's any chance Thompson will bring in a center during camp. Even an experienced one would have a hard time getting a grasp of all the protection calls in such a short period of time.
 

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Tretter has some fire in him. I saw on NFL network last night where he had a scuffle with a rookie DL yesterday. Nice scuffle too especially when Lang flew threw there pushing DL's out of the way.lol
 
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I don't think there's any chance Thompson will bring in a center during camp. Even an experienced one would have a hard time getting a grasp of all the protection calls in such a short period of time.
You may be correct. But I think an experienced NFL center would pick things up more quickly than a rookie like Linsley; and a vet could mentor the young guys as well. I have little confidence in Campen's ability to mold a dominating offensive line, but would love to be proven wrong.
 
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You may be correct. But I think an experienced NFL center would pick things up more quickly than a rookie like Linsley; and a vet could mentor the young guys as well. I have little confidence in Campen's ability to mold a dominating offensive line, but would love to be proven wrong.

I agree that Linsley will have a hard time getting up to speed while only getting limited reps with the second unit.

Tretter on the other hand should be able to make all the calls cause he was able to study the playbook for all of last season as well. I´m more worried about him having the physical tools necessary to play in the NFL.
 
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I agree that Linsley will have a hard time getting up to speed while only getting limited reps with the second unit.

Tretter on the other hand should be able to make all the calls cause he was able to study the playbook for all of last season as well. I´m more worried about him having the physical tools necessary to play in the NFL.
Yes, Tretter will know the playbook. But I think line calls are based on what the defense is showing you as much as what play is called. I assume a vet would pick up a defense and the disguises much more readily, since there's no substitute for experience. I do hope Tretter is the answer.....
 

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Quoted below is a post from DrafHobbyist from the comparing rosters thread that got derailed and closed. This is the original comment I disagreed with: “ … C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL) …” I just copied the part of his next post having to do with JC Tretter.
First, I wish I had the games but I don't. But just watch the St Louis game and watch nothing but initial contact on passing downs. You'll see it.
Most of what you said doesn't actually help counter my argument. Vague statements by a coach about a player doing well doesn't really show anything. What is he supposed to say? MM says that guys are showing improvement when he's asked about any player. Also, I disagree that there is "nothing wrong" with an OL getting pushed back initially. It doesn't mean they are beat, but there is an initial contact battle and Tretter is losing that. There is then a recovery/finish battle and Tretter is winning that battle. But let me ask you this: Would you rather an OL can pushed back initially on a passing play or hold his ground? If you said hold his ground than you have just shown that there is something wrong with being pushed back initially, as it is less ideal than an OL holding their ground initially.
Now I'm not saying Tretter sucks, which almost seems to be the angle you're trying to corner me into. I'm saying he has stuff to work on, he's certainly no Scott Wells, and he's obviously a question mark. Lets not forget that Scott Wells signed a 4-year $24 million contract because of how well he played.
I went through the first drive against the Rams recording how Tretter did.

1. Lacy run around left end: Tretter did not take a step back, he hit the DT and positioned himself perfectly to shield the DT from the play. Then he ran downfield ending up beyond where Lacy was tackled.

2. Check down pass to Lacy in the middle of the field. Lang and Tretter each take a half a step forward as they “catch” the DT and double team him. Sitton does not take a step forward, instead he stands up and “catches” the DT and is pushed back about 4 yards before the pass is thrown. Each OT takes a step back before contact with the DT. After the ball is thrown Tretter follows the DT he was doubling (the DT went after Lacy downfield) and threw a block at him while Lacy was being tackled.

3. Pass play but Rodgers runs around the left end. Tretter does not take a step back, he mirrors what Lang does on the play. He blocks the DT and Sitton kind of doubles him – it was strange because Sitton’s back ends up turned toward that DT. Tretter has his man about the same place as Lang’s regarding the LOS. (Lang got chip help from Lacy.) Again both OTs took steps back and Rodgers scrambled because Bakhtiari’s guy was pushed beyond Aaron but then was free. Tretter controlled the DT after Sitton stopped the “double”.

4. Very quick pass to Boykin to the right. Lang starts to pull to the left, Sitton takes Tretter’s guy and Tretter blocks Lang’s guy. He does not take a step back – he takes a half step to the right and ball is out.

5. Another pass to Boykin, this time out of the shotgun. Sitton, Tretter, and Lang are in unison as the play starts – none of them take even a half step forward they all “catch”. Sitton is driven back slightly more than Tretter (Lang’s guy is dancing with him) when the ball is thrown, just as Lacy chips on Tretter’s guy.

6. Pass to Cobb. Again all three interior OL catch and one DT runs right into the gap between Sitton an Tretter and they double him. Lang blocks one-on-one and the center of the OL is solid - there's about 4 yards between them and Rodgers when the ball is thrown. Again the OTs take a half step to a step back.

7. Another check down pass to Lacy in the middle. Lang chips Tretter’s guy and Tretter does get pushed back about two yards but the DT never gets past Tretter.

8. Lacy run to the left. Tretter’s guy is lined up in the gap between him and Sitton so it’s a little bit of a reach block. Tretter gets pushed back again, this time 2-3 yards but he controls the DT who doesn’t touch Lacy.

9. Lacy run up the middle. Sitton pulls around Tretter and Tretter has the angle on the DT this time. He takes half a step forward and controls him completely.

10. Lacy runs over LG on 3rd and 1. All three interior OL move forward at the snap and push 2-3 yards. TE Rodgers lets his guy cross his face from the right side of the formation (maybe a mix up with Bulaga) or it would have been very easy for Lacy. He barely makes the first down.

11. Another run by Lacy to about the same spot. Tretter and Sitton double the DT and the DT gets his hands to Tretter’s face. This turned into a scrum. IMO Tretter got too high on this run but it was Bulaga’s guy, not the doubled DT who made the tackle.

12. TD to Cobb. Tretter doubles with Lang and Bulaga is there too. Sitton gets pushed back to the 9 yard line (ball snapped at about the 3).

I also looked at the second drive for a TD/FG and saw the same thing. Actually, the DTs were attacking the gaps on the OG’s outer shoulders more so on a few occasions Tretter was left with no one to block. That was the case on the long pass to Quarless – Rodgers scrambled and my guess is it was 4+ seconds before he threw that ball. Tretter “retreated” with the OGs, the DL stunted and Tretter picked up the DE. He gave up some ground but again, Aaron wasn’t touched.

I’m not saying Tretter is great or that he manhandled D linemen. And I understand you aren't saying he sucks, but I am saying what you stated is incorrect as regarding his play for the first two drives of that game: He definitely did not get 'thrown back almost every snap on first contact'. (The NFL channel may replay that game and if it does, please record it and look for yourself.) IMO Tretter played well, particularly with the pressure of the hurry up/no huddle for much of the drives and playing against a good DL. BTW, when OL pass block, it’s a mistake to fire out too aggressively. That’s why the OTs “never” do that and interior OL very seldom do. If an OL gets pushed back a couple of yards and controls his man, he’s done his job. Perhaps that’s what you saw.

As I posted before, I had concerns/questions about Tretter before the preseason started. He'll no doubt have a few rookie moments during the season, but those concerns have melted away for me. If they all stay healthy I see very good things for the interior of the Packers OL for the next few years. And Rodgers finally won't have to break in yet another OC.
(Sorry about the length of this post, I'm going for the longest post of the year award! :D)
 

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Lets just agree to disagree, dude. I think Tretter has some stuff to work on, and I don't think he is what Wells was, which is what the argument started out as. When I watched Tretter I saw him taking steps back on initial contact in 1-on-1 situations in pass blocking, so I don't know why you are including combo blocks and running downs.
No I don’t “agree to disagree” dude. You don’t know what you are talking about – just as what you said about Daniels having “issues”. I challenged you on that too and you didn’t respond.

What you posted about Tretter was, “C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL)”. You didn’t mention 1-on-1 situations let alone just pass blocking.
I do think the hype has gone too far for Tretter after just one game speaking how much he has struggled in practice. And I noticed you only did the first drive, which was an up-tempo drive that the defense clearly wasn't ready for and was on their heals the entire drive. They'll be more ready in the regular season and I think Tretter is going to have issues. Time will tell. Instead of getting another thread locked lets just agree to disagree.
He struggled early in practice and has been improving since. It was not just one game – I mentioned the Titans game too in the thread. I also talked about the second drive in that game – while the first team was on the field, not just the first drive. And finally, I had nothing to do with the closing of that thread – your childishness certainly contributed. And it continues: A listing of what I observed on every play of the first drive of the Rams game is not “old”. You childishly used that rating because you were shown to be demonstrably wrong in the Tretter discussion.
 

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When I watched Tretter I saw him taking steps back on initial contact in 1-on-1 situations in pass blocking, s

The problem with that statement is that is presumes that taking a step back in pass protection is a bad thing. It usually isn't. All tackles do at the snap is retreat. Being aggressive and unwilling to retreat is usually a good way to get beat.

If Trettor is able to take the defense lineman's first punch, take a step back to absorb the blow, and then win the rest of the snap, he's doing his job.
 

mradtke66

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Tretter is not as good as Scott Wells.

Which Scott Wells? The 7th round pick who got cut his rookie year? The Scott Wells who became a backup guard? Or the Scott Wells that became a starting center? Or the Scott Wells who hasn't played a complete season since he left Green Bay?

It's almost as though 2nd year player against a 10th year player is some how unfair and unreasonable. . .

I will say that I think 2nd year Tretter is better than 2nd year Wells.
 

TJV

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Actually I did specifically talk about pass blocking, although I didn't specifically talk about 1-on-1's. If you're going to cross threads at least get your facts straight. So far you've taken some of my comments out of context and now you've gotten facts wrong. This is why crossing threads, especially from a closed thread, is a terrible idea.
Again, this is what I was responding to: "C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL)" I even underlined the important part so you can follow along. Nowhere do you talk about pass blocking, you wrote "almost every snap on first contact". And 1) that's just plain wrong as I demonstrated, and 2) those who understand OL play realize OL can give ground and still do their jobs. In my review of the first drive of the Rams game, Sitton and Lang do that. (You understand they're pretty good, don't you?)

It's funny that you complain about "crossing threads", it's almost as if you want what you posted on that thread to go away. And just so you know, anyone interested in whether or not I took your comments out of context (I quoted them word-for-word) can go to that thread and read them, even though that thread is closed. Not only that, but you can go to that thread and retrieve your or my comments.
 

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Actually I did specifically talk about pass blocking, although I didn't specifically talk about 1-on-1's. If you're going to cross threads at least get your facts straight. So far you've taken some of my comments out of context and now you've gotten facts wrong. This is why crossing threads, especially from a closed thread, is a terrible idea.

Oh, and btw, Tretter did HORRIBLE in practices this year in 1-on-1 drills. I wonder why that is since you seem to think he's not even a question mark.

He was 11-3 according to the last chart that was posted. Maybe he wasn't fantastic at it but something tells me that mark isn't quite "horrible"
 

TJV

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If people want to read about it they can read it on that thread. Why are you starting up this big argument on this thread that has become about what was and wasn't said on the locked thread?
I brought this up again because I thought you were wrong about Tretter and took the time to prove it. I also posted it because I thought observations of what Tretter did on every play in the first drive against a good DL may be of interest to other posters. Perhaps the ratings received on that post, other than yours of course, indicate it was? I posted it on this thread because the previous thread was closed and the subject of this thread is Tretter. You seem very sensitive about what you posted on that other thread. I wonder why that is? :roflmao:
 

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This isnt crossing threads.

It is about tretter and the old thread had comments about tretter..

I suggest be adults and ignore each other.

Thanks
 

PikeBadger

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As I said before, this doesn't mean Tretter is a terrible player. It means he has stuff to work on. And when you put it in context of what we were talking about, Tretter is not as good as Scott Wells.
It's completely unreasonable to think that Tretter is not going to have things he needs to work on. He's in his first weeks of playing center. Of course he's not as good as Wells, but then, Wells wasn't very good his first three years in the league and neither was Lang. The coaches think he's the best option and that's good enough for me.
 

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