Jared Abbrederis

[Un4GivN]

I've repeatedly posted my opinion about it, doesn't make any sense to do it further as you don't seem to be willing to change your mind although it's pretty obvious to everyone else you're wrong about it.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

So Rodgers releases it give or take the 2 yards at the 20.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

At this point is the exact time when he decides ohh **** going to fast. That is when the ball is already at the 37. Meaning it flew 129 feet and was only about 21 feet away when he decided figures this out. Even now, his pace hasn't slowed much as you can still see the separation from him and the safety.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

And finally the "attempt" to catch the ball... Or hug maybe? I'm not sure wtf he was thinking at this point.

Slowing down faster and using his back arm to run the defender past the ball would have been the best move. But with that late of reaction time to the ball this is really all you're left with is to try to catch the ball through him.


Side Note: The guys in the background expressions are priceless. Except Hyde he looks like he has been crying the whole game.

 

[Un4GivN]

Watching that play again, how any could criticize Abbrederis is beyond me. There was clearly contact before the ball arrived. He did slow down and there's no way to know if he doesn't catch the ball except for the DB because the DB forced him away from the ball both before and as the ball arrived.

Please watch again and explain to me how the DB "forced him"... The DBs hands never touch him. The fact remain that the DB was in better position causing Abbe to try and go through him to get the ball. In NO WAY does the DB force him to do anything at all.

That explanation doesn't even make sense when you watch it. Just so happened to be that Abbe needed to be where the DB was. That's all.

 

[jaybadger82]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

So Rodgers releases it give or take the 2 yards at the 20.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

At this point is the exact time when he decides ohh **** going to fast. That is when the ball is already at the 37. Meaning it flew 129 feet and was only about 21 feet away when he decided figures this out. Even now, his pace hasn't slowed much as you can still see the separation from him and the safety.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

And finally the "attempt" to catch the ball... Or hug maybe? I'm not sure wtf he was thinking at this point.

Slowing down faster and using his back arm to run the defender past the ball would have been the best move. But with that late of reaction time to the ball this is really all you're left with is to try to catch the ball through him.


Side Note: The guys in the background expressions are priceless. Except Hyde he looks like he has been crying the whole game.

To paraphrase: "Nobody agrees with my stupid thesis, so I'll put a **** ton of effort into a clown post that changes nobody's mind."

 

[TJV]

Please watch again and explain to me how the DB "forced him"... The DBs hands never touch him. The fact remain that the DB was in better position causing Abbe to try and go through him to get the ball. In NO WAY does the DB force him to do anything at all.

That explanation doesn't even make sense when you watch it. Just so happened to be that Abbe needed to be where the DB was. That's all.

So you can't change another player's position on the field unless you put your hands on him? This is so basic I really shouldn't have to explain it but apparently it's necessary. Look at the last picture in your post #76 - or better go back and look at the video: The DB is backing into Abby changing his position on the field. If you still don't understand this simple concept, imagine you are standing in line and the person in front of you backs into you forcefully; even without using his hands he has forced into the person standing behind you.

 

[Poppa San]

Only about 8 receivers in the NFL have the ability to go over the defender to make that catch. That's why they go to the pro bowl.

 

[Un4GivN]

To paraphrase: "Nobody agrees with my stupid thesis, so I'll put a **** ton of effort into a clown post that changes nobody's mind."

I think your definition of **** ton of effort and mine may be vastly different. Took me about 3 seconds to get each screen shots off my computer 10 seconds per to post them to google. So **** ton of effort equals 5 minutes? I sometimes work 16 hours a day. Something that takes me 5 minutes at an absolute max doesn't even touch my radar.

And I'm 100 percent OK with no one agreeing with me, and I'm 100 percent OK with still sticking to my main point. He isn't a playmaker. Nothing special. Time will tell. And I will be the first to make a post if I am wrong and he becomes difference maker in this league.

Three, I'd rather be the type of person that stands hard to my convictions and be wrong... Then to be the person who uses reductio ad absurdum to be the "cool kid" on the forums getting likes. You added absolutely nothing to the conversation, except for a sad middle school attempt to put down someone you don't know at all. Great job, you should be commended. lol

I'll give you a like so you can feel accepted by the internet.

 

[Un4GivN]

Only about 8 receivers in the NFL have the ability to go over the defender to make that catch. That's why they go to the pro bowl.

This I 100 percent agree with. My only point has ever been there were much better ways to play the ball then he did. That is all. Not saying he should have caught it, or anything of the sort, just that there were better ways to play it than that. A better receiver makes a better play on it.

Have mentioned 5 times throughout this, that it was a bad throw... That he shouldn't have to adjust to it like that. That is on Rodgers. (Though i do cut him a little slack for throwing the ball 60 yards on the move.)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Under his own admission he lost the ball for a great deal of the flight (poor awareness). It wasn't until the last moment he realized that the ball was even thrown to him. By which point it was already to late to make a play on the ball. Which is exactly what it looks like. A person who never seen the ball and just kept running.

You give me ODB on that pass and I doubt he runs next to the ball, instead he adjust his stride and fights back for the ball. Was it catchable? Maybe not. But that was an EASY play to get PI on if you even attempt to get back to the ball.

The problem here is that your arguments to try and prove your theory of Abby being an inferior WR just don't hold water and even though people keep pointing it out to you, you keep going. Not to mention that you are trying to prove your theory about Abby by centering it all on one play, a play in which the ball was obviously under thrown and well defended.

1. your initial comment about Abby admitting he lost the ball was incorrect, those comments were made by Janis concerning an earlier pass.
2. you views that Abby didn't prepare to try to catch an under thrown ball are incorrect. Watch the play again and when his head turns and when he puts the breaks on and attempts to come back to the ball, but is run into and pushed far away by the defender.
3. How did he not try and draw a PI call? You said he made no attempt, really?
4. comparing a WR to a baseball outfielder? Although a nice argument, 2 big differences. A baseball coming off a bat has no pre-determined path until its in the air, thus the outfielder not only has the ability to, but must instantly recognize its flight path. In football, its called route running, a QB knows approximately where a WR is and the WR knows when to look back for the ball. Pre-determined and is what separates good WR's from bad ones. Watch some replays of good WR's and their ability to just know where the ball is going to be without having to have constant eye contact with it.

Would ODB, Bryant, Megatron, etc have caught this ball? Who knows, I have seen all of them drop easier ones. I have yet to see anyone on this posting declare Abby as the second coming of any of those. Personally, I hope Abby has a great career, but by no means am I ready to hoist him on my shoulders as the savior.

But I'm still not buying your theory that he didn't see the ball until it was too late, that he didn't try to get into a position to catch the ball and that he wasn't pushed backwards in that attempt by a defender. When you initially said this, I think it was downhill from there. "Which is exactly what it looks like. A person who never seen the ball and just kept running."

Maybe let time decide/prove whether Abby will make it in this league, but hanging his career on this one play and/or the limited playing time he has had?

I'm done with this post.

 

[Mondio]

I'm not banking on him becoming any of those guys either. I think if he stays healthy, he'll be a consistent 40 or so catch per season receiver with potential to be a 50-60 catch guy. He probably won't be megatron, but he will most likely still make plays for us. The big question is will he stay on the field or won't he?

If he can stay on the field and available, i have no doubt he can make big time catches in this league. A guy doesn't turn a DB like Roby around twice, and then adjust like that in the air to the ball while having his legs taken out if they don't have halfway decent ball skills. He needs to stay healthy and he needs reps and he'll be just fine for us.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

The player we should criticize for getting jammed up by a defender was Adams in that play against Chicago that resulted in an interception. That was pathetic.

 

[Un4GivN]

The problem here is that your arguments to try and prove your theory of Abby being an inferior WR just don't hold water and even though people keep pointing it out to you, you keep going. Not to mention that you are trying to prove your theory about Abby by centering it all on one play, a play in which the ball was obviously under thrown and well defended.

1. your initial comment about Abby admitting he lost the ball was incorrect, those comments were made by Janis concerning an earlier pass.
2. you views that Abby didn't prepare to try to catch an under thrown ball are incorrect. Watch the play again and when his head turns and when he puts the breaks on and attempts to come back to the ball, but is run into and pushed far away by the defender.
3. How did he not try and draw a PI call? You said he made no attempt, really?
4. comparing a WR to a baseball outfielder? Although a nice argument, 2 big differences. A baseball coming off a bat has no pre-determined path until its in the air, thus the outfielder not only has the ability to, but must instantly recognize its flight path. In football, its called route running, a QB knows approximately where a WR is and the WR knows when to look back for the ball. Pre-determined and is what separates good WR's from bad ones. Watch some replays of good WR's and their ability to just know where the ball is going to be without having to have constant eye contact with it.

Would ODB, Bryant, Megatron, etc have caught this ball? Who knows, I have seen all of them drop easier ones. I have yet to see anyone on this posting declare Abby as the second coming of any of those. Personally, I hope Abby has a great career, but by no means am I ready to hoist him on my shoulders as the savior.

But I'm still not buying your theory that he didn't see the ball until it was too late, that he didn't try to get into a position to catch the ball and that he wasn't pushed backwards in that attempt by a defender. When you initially said this, I think it was downhill from there. "Which is exactly what it looks like. A person who never seen the ball and just kept running."

Maybe let time decide/prove whether Abby will make it in this league, but hanging his career on this one play and/or the limited playing time he has had?

I'm done with this post.

1. Is true, no doubt about it. I admit the error.

2. Two that is incorrect, unless you have the coaches film which I haven't. His head is always turned on every angle they give you. I cannot say that you are right or that you are wrong. The film 100% does not show his head turning. Both angles they give you show his head always being turned when he is in the frame so there is no way to prove when he turned it.

3. Because it wasn't PI... Abby needed to be where the DB was, but the DB beat him to that spot (Granted it was a bad spot to throw the ball but it is the reality of it). It is Abby coming back for the ball at the last second that initiates the contact. His path was straight through the DB. If a receiver has to go through a defender to get to the ball that is not PI, it is poor positioning and even worse throw. Did the DB stop Abby from going through him to get back to the ball sure... As he should.

4. While your baseball point does have some merit. But I don't believe this was a pre-designed route. It's hard to tell from the views that are available. But with him and Davante being 5 yards apart at the catch point I would assume this is school yard. Especially given Rodgers scrambling at this point. BUT I cannot be for sure without a view of the whole field.

It wasn't just this play it was others as well. He cut his route 2 yards short of a first down in the first quarter I believe it was and tackled immediately. Didn't cross the face of defender on another.

My point was also not that Abby is the second coming of ODB, he certainly is not. My point is there is more that could have been done. PERIOD. He did not play the ball in flight great, regardless of the PI.

 

[Un4GivN]

The player we should criticize for getting jammed up by a defender was Adams in that play against Chicago that resulted in an interception. That was pathetic.

Agreed! He gets slightly tapped (on the shoulder I believe?) and made it seem like he got hit by a truck and brought to a full stop. Adams sure has a lot of problems lately as well. I don't honestly believe any of these receivers are all that good.

 

[El Guapo]

Abbrederis should have been called for offensive pass interference. He doesn't get unlimited rights to the ball. Once that DB turns his head and makes an attempt to catch the ball they have equal rights. The DB put his hands up to catch the ball while shielding out Abbrederis. Abbrederis than actually put his hands on the DB and pulled him down to the ground for a moment. Most refs won't call that unless it's blatant, but that would have been the more correct call instead of a penalty against Detroit.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Agreed! He gets slightly tapped (on the shoulder I believe?) and made it seem like he got hit by a truck and brought to a full stop. Adams sure has a lot of problems lately as well. I don't honestly believe any of these receivers are all that good.

I don't think Cobb develops into a 10 TD or $10 million receiver on any other team, but I like him and don't think the play calling is doing him any favors this year.

Jones fell off the face of the earth at the same time Adams returned from injury only to completely suck. Maybe the suckage of Adams is so strong it transfers to other players while he's on the field.

 

[PackerDNA]

Suckage is deadly and contagious.

 

[jaybadger82]

I think your definition of **** ton of effort and mine may be vastly different. Took me about 3 seconds to get each screen shots off my computer 10 seconds per to post them to google. So **** ton of effort equals 5 minutes? I sometimes work 16 hours a day. Something that takes me 5 minutes at an absolute max doesn't even touch my radar.

And I'm 100 percent OK with no one agreeing with me, and I'm 100 percent OK with still sticking to my main point. He isn't a playmaker. Nothing special. Time will tell. And I will be the first to make a post if I am wrong and he becomes difference maker in this league.

Three, I'd rather be the type of person that stands hard to my convictions and be wrong... Then to be the person who uses reductio ad absurdum to be the "cool kid" on the forums getting likes. You added absolutely nothing to the conversation, except for a sad middle school attempt to put down someone you don't know at all. Great job, you should be commended. lol

I'll give you a like so you can feel accepted by the internet.

Thanks for the rating. As a matter of fact, my ego is totally defined by my ratings on this forum so I appreciate the boost.

FWIW, I don't think Abbrederis will be an exceptional player, either. You're welcome to an opinion and I respect that you won't back down. But, IMO, your credibility takes a hit when you throw out a ridiculous statement (i.e., "Abberderis doesn't catch that ball if no one is covering him") that is simply impossible to prove or disprove. Fact is Abbrederis was covered and we can't recreate the play with Jared uncovered...

How much does this bogus hypothetical concerning one play change peoples' notion of Abby's NFL prospects, anyway? At the point you're breaking down frames of an incomplete pass like the Zapruder film, in order to "prove" that Jared wouldn't have caught that ball if the defender weren't there, you've crossed into the realm of unintentional comedy. I'm happy to point that out: classic fall down the argumentative rabbit hole. Maybe take a step back because you seem pretty fixated on "winning" this conversation.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Talked to a friend at church Wednesday night about the play. He's been a high school head linesman for about 25 years, and an NAIA field judge for 9 years. He said they always falsely say on TV that there is no DPI if the defender is looking back for the ball during a collision with the receiver but that's not actually true.

The most used standard on all levels is that it must be clear that not only is the defender looking back toward the QB or randomly up in the air but that it must be plainly apparent that the defender is actually tracking the ball in the air during the time of the collision.

It's pure judgment on the official's part and a good case could be made for either no-call or DPI. OPI would not have been correct in any case because Abbrederis did not initiate the contact from what he could see (WR has the right to slow down) and what he does after that contact is made by the defender is inconsequential, so the "hug" would be irrelevant since it is pretty clear that the defender initiated the contact.

The only question is whether it was plainly apparent that the defender was tracking the ball. He said if he was officiating that play he would not have judged the defender to be tracking the ball because he made no attempt to reach for the ball and it did not appear to him that he was actually following the ball in the air. A good way for non-officials to understand it would be that most of the time the defender looks like the intended receiver when the standard is met. He thought that probably about 60% or so of officials would have called it DPI but the rest wouldn't. So in essence, either call would have been correct. Go figure. Blandino said it was correct too, and he has admitted to bad calls in other cases.

BTW, he's a Bears fan.