Jared Abbrederis

[RRyder]

I promised not to discuss anything being posted about Janis anymore until at least the start of camp but here´s some other stuff that was mentioned in this thread I want to address.

First of all Myles White didn´t make the 53 man roster with the Packers last season, he spent the entire year on the practice squad. Janis wasn´t able to make the game day roster over a terrible Jarrett Boykin.

It seems like a lot of you have a completely wrong idea about what a player (especially early in his career) does once being put on IR. While those guys obviously aren´t allowed to hit the practice field they still attend all positional meetings and train in the team´s weight room once able to and therefore have spent time in the system as well.

My bad it wasnt Myles White he couldnt beat out. It was Kevin Dorsey. My bad. Wasnt just Boykins which is bad enough.

Seriously though our WRs are so damn suspect after Adams that nobody should be penciled in anywhere but hey thats what we do. Hell I think Montgomery would make a better #3 RB vrs a #4 WR so I guess there should be open roster spots for all

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My bad it wasnt Myles White he couldnt beat out. It was Kevin Dorsey. My bad. Wasnt just Boykins which is bad enough.

You´re right about Dorsey. While Janis made the 53 man roster out of training camp it seems Dorsey moved ahead of him on the depth chart after he was signed to the active roster from the practice squad after week 5 of last season.

 

[TJV]

It’s been mentioned before but this is what McCarthy said about Janis at the combine:

But, McCarthy said Thursday at the annual NFL Scouting Combine, although Janis certainly made a splash in preseason, he needs to make a jump in the offseason and develop his raw football talent in order to be a contributor in 2015. And McCarthy believes that’s going to happen. “I think Jeff is going to take a big step,” McCarthy said … “He’s got a big catching radius, and he needs to utilize it. Obviously, I think we all saw his vertical speed. He’s an extremely physical young man. He’s an Olympian in the weight room. He’s got a lot of raw skill, and I look for him to make that jump.”

McCarthy then said he toyed with the idea of making Janis the KOR, but was concerned about playing youngsters at the end of the year. He then said,

“I thought probably after Thanksgiving, I thought Jeff really picked it up [in practice]. He was more comfortable, and so I look for him to take a step. He’s got to play with extension. That’s the one thing he has to do a better job of. But you can see it on the scout team, and at the end of the year he was running some really good routes. Really good routes.”

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=47481

IMO McCarthy went beyond the usual “fluff” when talking about Janis in saying he was running really good routes at the end of the year – even though it was just on the scout team. What Janis didn’t do and has to improve, according to McCarthy, is using his catching radius better. BTW that’s a clear distinction between him and Jordy who not only excels at that but also at ballet-like skills staying in bounds while extending for balls. Of course we don't expect the HC to say negative things about young players, but I think McCarthy was more positive about Janis than he "had" to be.

IMO: Janis has to work on his catching radius and earning the trust of Rodgers in making adjustments after the snap. Neither of those things is as much of a concern with Abbrederis, but he has to work on getting stronger and being more durable.

 

[GoPGo]

Im not even high on Abreddaris but im actually a lil amazed at the fact the people call Janis a"Jordy clone" and was even compared to Julio Jones physically earlier in this thread.

You seem to say "even compared to Julio Jones physically" as if there is no merit to the comparison. Janis is certainly right there with Julio Jones athletically. Don't let his lack of melanin fool you.

Here are the rSparQ ratings for all WRs in 2014. Think of rSparQ as a quarterback rating for athleticism, if you will. Don't start too far down the list or you'll miss JJ:

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2125451/rSPARQ_2014WR-1.png

Here's a link to someone else who made the same comparison to Jones:

http://www.allprofootballsource.com/2014-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-draft-guide/

Also about a week ago, I also came across an article comparing Janis athletically (which is what we're talking about here) to other NFL WRs of similar size and the numbers showed the closest he compared to at his size was Jones. If I find that article again, I'll post it.

Either way, the only other WR that compared to Janis's numbers across the board in last year's draft was Beckham, but he was 4 inches shorter and 21 pounds lighter. In speed and agility tests, the differences were negligible with Beckham slightly better in the shuttle and Janis slightly better in the cones and the 40. In leaping ability, Beckham was 1" better in vertical (which you would expect being 21 pounds lighter) and Janis 1" better in broad jump (which you would expect with a longer frame.) Janis blew Beckham away in terms of strength.

So talk all you want about whether Janis will ever reach his potential or whether he'll ever be able to learn and execute the playbook effectively or whatever. Those are legitimate questions. But criticisms about his physical tools are just plain silly.

 

[GoPGo]

You´re right about Dorsey. While Janis made the 53 man roster out of training camp it seems Dorsey moved ahead of him on the depth chart after he was signed to the active roster from the practice squad after week 5 of last season.

So what? It's no secret that MM puts a high value on the experience factor, especially where rookies are concerned. Regardless. One of those players is no longer with the team. If Dorsey was so much better than Janis, don't you think they would have offered him a cheap contract to keep him on the team? Dorsey is currently sitting at home waiting and hoping for his phone to ring.

 

[GoPGo]

First of all Myles White didn´t make the 53 man roster with the Packers last season, he spent the entire year on the practice squad. Janis wasn´t able to make the game day roster over a terrible Jarrett Boykin.

Are you talking about the same Jarrett Boykin who was a third year player who had just had 49 catches and 681 yards in 8 games the prior season? Because I'm pretty sure he earned his spot and no rookie was going to supplant him no matter what. Boykin was given ample opportunity to pull out of his slump, as he well he should have, although in the end he failed to do so.

I assume you think Abbrederis would have been given Boykin's spot on the depth chart or something?

It seems like a lot of you have a completely wrong idea about what a player (especially early in his career) does once being put on IR. While those guys obviously aren´t allowed to hit the practice field they still attend all positional meetings and train in the team´s weight room once able to and therefore have spent time in the system as well.

And somehow that equates in your mind to getting actual reps on the practice field? Besides, I thought I read somewhere about Abbrederis being allergic to weights. I know high school freshman who can bench 225 twice as many times as he can.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Janis compared to Julio Jones?

There's a better comparison closer to home...small college, tall, very fast, didn't use his catch radius...Billy Schroeder.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

If Janis can match Schroeder's career productivity, that would be a big win for him.

 

[RRyder]

You seem to say "even compared to Julio Jones physically" as if there is no merit to the comparison. Janis is certainly right there with Julio Jones athletically. Don't let his lack of melanin fool you.

Here are the rSparQ ratings for all WRs in 2014. Think of rSparQ as a quarterback rating for athleticism, if you will. Don't start too far down the list or you'll miss JJ:

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2125451/rSPARQ_2014WR-1.png

Here's a link to someone else who made the same comparison to Jones:

http://www.allprofootballsource.com/2014-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-draft-guide/

Also about a week ago, I also came across an article comparing Janis athletically (which is what we're talking about here) to other NFL WRs of similar size and the numbers showed the closest he compared to at his size was Jones. If I find that article again, I'll post it.

Either way, the only other WR that compared to Janis's numbers across the board in last year's draft was Beckham, but he was 4 inches shorter and 21 pounds lighter. In speed and agility tests, the differences were negligible with Beckham slightly better in the shuttle and Janis slightly better in the cones and the 40. In leaping ability, Beckham was 1" better in vertical (which you would expect being 21 pounds lighter) and Janis 1" better in broad jump (which you would expect with a longer frame.) Janis blew Beckham away in terms of strength.

So talk all you want about whether Janis will ever reach his potential or whether he'll ever be able to learn and execute the playbook effectively or whatever. Those are legitimate questions. But criticisms about his physical tools are just plain silly.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Janis in no way should be mentioned in the same breath as Julio Jones or Jordy at this no matter what your talking about. And if people just want to talk about athletic ability then well Adams compares favorably with Sterling Sharpe

 

[GoPGo]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Janis in no way should be mentioned in the same breath as Julio Jones.

Absolute nonsense. The athleticism comparison is entirely warranted.

And if people just want to talk about athletic ability then well Adams compares favorably with Sterling Sharpe

If he does, he does.

 

[PikeBadger]

It’s been mentioned before but this is what McCarthy said about Janis at the combine:McCarthy then said he toyed with the idea of making Janis the KOR, but was concerned about playing youngsters at the end of the year. He then said, http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=47481

IMO McCarthy went beyond the usual “fluff” when talking about Janis in saying he was running really good routes at the end of the year – even though it was just on the scout team. What Janis didn’t do and has to improve, according to McCarthy, is using his catching radius better. BTW that’s a clear distinction between him and Jordy who not only excels at that but also at ballet-like skills staying in bounds while extending for balls. Of course we don't expect the HC to say negative things about young players, but I think McCarthy was more positive about Janis than he "had" to be.

IMO: Janis has to work on his catching radius and earning the trust of Rodgers in making adjustments after the snap. Neither of those things is as much of a concern with Abbrederis, but he has to work on getting stronger and being more durable.

Jordy Nelson had the catching radius issue in his first two years as well and looked downright timid operating in the middle of the field. He matured and progressed well.

The guy that Janis reminds me of in terms of physical attributes is Bill Schroeder. I hope Janis is a more instinctual football player than Schroeder.

 

[PikeBadger]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Janis in no way should be mentioned in the same breath as Julio Jones or Jordy at this no matter what your talking about. And if people just want to talk about athletic ability then well Adams compares favorably with Sterling Sharpe

Disagree. Nelson wasn't anything special as a WR his first two years. Jones has always been an elite receiver at every level. Imo, Adams is similar to Sharpe,Cris Carter, Anquan Boldin. He just wasn't thrust into the starters role because of the guys in front of him. Adams will be a CB nightmare in coming years. Kid is very strong and difficult to tackle in one on one situations.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So what? It's no secret that MM puts a high value on the experience

factor, especially where rookies are concerned. Regardless. One of those players is no longer with the team. If Dorsey was so much better than Janis, don't you think they would have offered him a cheap contract to keep him on the team? Dorsey is currently sitting at home waiting and hoping for his phone to ring.

Dorsey had the experience of being on injured reserve for an entire season before he moved past Janis on the depth chart. It seems like in this case you value being in the system for a year even while being on IR.

What´s the difference to Abbrederis??? Because with him you don´t value having spent a season on injured reserve.

Are you talking about the same Jarrett Boykin who was a third year player who had just had 49 catches and 681 yards in 8 games the prior season? Because I'm pretty sure he earned his spot and no rookie was going to supplant him no matter what. Boykin was given ample opportunity to pull out of his slump, as he well he should have, although in the end he failed to do so.

Boykin had a nice season in 2013 but was terrible from the get-go last year dropping three balls on only 12 targets. Yet Janis wasn´t able to move past him on the depth chart.

You seem to say "even compared to Julio Jones physically" as if there is no merit to the comparison. Janis is certainly right there with Julio Jones athletically. Don't let his lack of melanin fool you.

Here are the rSparQ ratings for all WRs in 2014. Think of rSparQ as a quarterback rating for athleticism, if you will. Don't start too far down the list or you'll miss JJ:

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2125451/rSPARQ_2014WR-1.png

Here's a link to someone else who made the same comparison to Jones:

http://www.allprofootballsource.com/2014-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-draft-guide/

Also about a week ago, I also came across an article comparing Janis athletically (which is what we're talking about here) to other NFL WRs of similar size and the numbers showed the closest he compared to at his size was Jones. If I find that article again, I'll post it.

Either way, the only other WR that compared to Janis's numbers across the board in last year's draft was Beckham, but he was 4 inches shorter and 21 pounds lighter. In speed and agility tests, the differences were negligible with Beckham slightly better in the shuttle and Janis slightly better in the cones and the 40. In leaping ability, Beckham was 1" better in vertical (which you would expect being 21 pounds lighter) and Janis 1" better in broad jump (which you would expect with a longer frame.) Janis blew Beckham away in terms of strength.

So talk all you want about whether Janis will ever reach his potential or whether he'll ever be able to learn and execute the playbook effectively or whatever. Those are legitimate questions. But criticisms about his physical tools are just plain silly.

Do you even realize we´re talking about football here??? There´s no denying Janis has a ton of athleticism but all of that doesn´t matter if he can´t run precise routes, adjust his routes on the fly or use his catching radius to make tough catches against pro level cornerbacks.

Julio Jones just finished third in the league in receptions (104) and receiving yards (1,593) last season, comparing Janis to him is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[paulska]

The back and forth here about players unlikely to make a big difference in our scheme (any WR below #3 on the depth chart) is important because of a cautionary tale on our own team that happened in the not too distant past.

Once upon a time, Packer fans felt very satisfied that we had a sparkling WR corps, headed by Javon Walker and Donald Driver. Then, greed and the injury bug hit and our WR corps was troubled for an extended period. The laundry list of players who did not pan out further down the depth chart only accented why working hard at developing those guys is of critical importance. On paper, Nelson, Cobb and Adams look really good, and provided they stay healthy, they are good.

However, this is the NFL, and good top end depth can disappear in a heartbeat. We don't have good TE's with versatility to augment the WR position. Jermichael Finley, for all his consistency issues, could be deployed like a WR. In the same vein, there are RBs who can split out at WR within a scheme too, although we don't have one of those (Darren Sproles comes to mind. Buffalo and KC both had recent RBs drafted as much for their ability to split into space in passing roles as their wont to hit holes between the tackles).

As much as I'd like to see our top needs all struck firmly on the head by draft picks, TT understands that with this being a passing league, you can't stop adding potential to the mix to drive competition at a position that has as much to do with offensive potency in the current NFL landscape as any (with the exception of QB). Montgomery's arrival means developing players (see Janis, Abbrederis) are on notice. He's weak on the hands at the moment, but he gives us scheme flexibility (both he and Cobb can run it as well as catch it) and options for ST they don't. The options for both of these guys, given that they were selected through less costly means than Montgomery's 3rd round price tag, are to pack it in, or game on and get better consistently. Neither of them is Robert Ferguson whose 2nd round draft status bought him an extended period to develop.

It seems to me that our success at the WR position has a lot to do with the overall level of competition. Even Adams, a recent high pick, had to unseat a player who had done enough to earn the 3rd receiver role with some clutch play. Nelson and Cobb aren't facing job loss because they produce at a top flite level. So long as they do, they're starting for us.

In any case, I think what bears watching here is who rises to the top. I know if I'm a bubble WR and the prize is a chance to catch balls in games that mean something from arguably the best QB in football for a team that could win it all, every rep is like my last chance. Here's hoping Janis and Abbrederis are wired that way...

 

[PikeBadger]

Janis compared to Julio Jones?

There's a better comparison closer to home...small college, tall, very fast, didn't use his catch radius...Billy Schroeder.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

If Janis can match Schroeder's career productivity, that would be a big win for him.

I didn't read down far enough before posting earlier but it's clear we agree with the Janis/Schroeder comparison. Schroeder had world class physical tools but just wasn't naturally a football player with the instinctiveness to master the nuances of the position. James Jones didn't have those natural instincts either.IMO, Cobb is our most instinctive player at WR.

 

[Mondio]

Bill probably played in high school, but he only played one year of DIII college. He was an outstanding track guy before that and only played football because he had some eligibility to use up and he was a pretty good athlete it turns out.

 

[TJV]

Jordy Nelson had the catching radius issue in his first two years as well and looked downright timid operating in the middle of the field. He matured and progressed well.

I don't remember Nelson having a problem with catching radius. As I remember it, his biggest "problems" during his first two seasons were Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Jermichael Finley (for one of those years) getting the vast majority of targets. Jordy also returned kick-offs during his first three seasons - I don't remember him being timid.

 

[Mondio]

I don't particularly remember those things about him either. I remember him not getting a ton of targets, but catching almost everything thrown his way in addition to being very low key and mentally focused he seemed to be faster than he appeared and very smooth in his running style.

 

[GoPGo]

Dorsey had the experience of being on injured reserve for an entire season before he moved past Janis on the depth chart. It seems like in this case you value being in the system for a year even while being on IR.

What´s the difference to Abbrederis??? Because with him you don´t value having spent a season on injured reserve.

The difference is obvious. 1 year on IR + 1 year of full TC and preseason > 1 year on IR. That never occurred to you?

Boykin had a nice season in 2013 but was terrible from the get-go last year dropping three balls on only 12 targets. Yet Janis wasn't able to move past him on the depth chart.

I don't like repeating myself, but apparently you missed it the first time: Boykin earned his spot and no rookie was going to supplant him no matter what. Boykin was given ample opportunity to pull out of his slump, as he well he should have, although in the end he failed to do so. McCarthy isn't one to give up on a player who has been productive until that player has been given every opportunity to prove himself. It would have been extremely un-McCarthy-like to dump Boykin for any rookie last season.

Do you even realize we´re talking about football here???

Do you even realize I was talking specifically about athleticism because your fellow hater scoffed about the fact that his closest NFL comparison in terms of size/athleticism is Jones?

There´s no denying Janis has a ton of athleticism

Yeah, someone did. That was the point.

Julio Jones just finished third in the league in receptions (104) and receiving yards (1,593) last season, comparing Janis to him is absolutely ridiculous.

Show me where I compared him to Jones as a receiver. I compared him (as others have) as an athlete.

 

[TJV]

I don't like repeating myself, but apparently you missed it the first time: Boykin earned his spot and no rookie was going to supplant him no matter what. Boykin was given ample opportunity to pull out of his slump, as he well he should have, although in the end he failed to do so. McCarthy isn't one to give up on a player who has been productive until that player has been given every opportunity to prove himself. It would have been extremely un-McCarthy-like to dump Boykin for any rookie last season.

GoPGo, meet Davante Adams, rookie WR of the Green Bay Packers last season who supplanted Jarrett Boykin. Perhaps you missed him?

 

[GoPGo]

GoPGo, meet Davante Adams, rookie WR of the Green Bay Packers last season who supplanted Jarrett Boykin. Perhaps you missed him?

Davante Adams was a high draft pick with higher expectations and more polish out of the gate. And the fact that Boykin was already demoted once made it less likely MM was going to do it again because that's a perfect way to convince a player to refuse to re-sign with your team and at the time I doubt they had decided yet whether they were going to try to re-sign him or not.

Bottom line, there were several haters (one in particular) who didn't give Janis a chance in hell of making the roster. I said I would bet my bottom dollar he would, and he did. Those same people are saying he'll be the odd man out again. And I'd bet my bottom dollar he makes it again, unless he gets hurt in which case he will be put on IR.

 

[TJV]

Davante Adams was a high draft pick with higher expectations and more polish out of the gate.

Why not just post, 'Opps, I forgot about Adams' or, 'Posting "Boykin earned his spot and no rookie was going to supplant him no matter what." was an overstatement.'?

And the fact that Boykin was already demoted once made it less likely MM was going to do it again because that's a perfect way to convince a player to refuse to re-sign with your team and at the time I doubt they had yet decided yet whether they were going to try to re-sign him or not.

IMO if Janis, Abby, or White earned snaps ahead of Boykin, they would have gotten them. I really don't think Thompson or McCarthy were concerned about hurting Boykin's feelings or worrying about a player they could have tendered after the season returning.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you even realize I was talking specifically about athleticism because your fellow hater scoffed about the fact that his closest NFL comparison in terms of size/athleticism is Jones?

Show me where I compared him to Jones as a receiver. I compared him (as others have) as an athlete.

Do you realize the Packers play football??? I don´t give a damn about Janis being the same size or as athletic as Julio Jones. The only thing I care about is his ability to play receiver in the NFL and so far he hasn´t been able to get on the field with the Packers.

Bottom line, there were several haters (one in particular) who didn't give Janis a chance in hell of making the roster. I said I would bet my bottom dollar he would, and he did. Those same people are saying he'll be the odd man out again. And I'd bet my bottom dollar he makes it again, unless he gets hurt in which case he will be put on IR.

I have never posted that Janis won´t make the roster, I advised you to not put too much stock in Janis having some nice catches in preseason games and practice. He will probably compete with Abbrederis and some of the undrafted rookies for a roster spot this year again but I don´t expect him to have a major impact on the Packers 2015 season.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't remember Nelson having a problem with catching radius. As I remember it, his biggest "problems" during his first two seasons were Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and Jermichael Finley (for one of those years) getting the vast majority of targets. Jordy also returned kick-offs during his first three seasons - I don't remember him being timid.

It took him a couple of years. I remember thinking that he was gun shy in the middle of the field. His third season was when I really noticed that he was becoming a very good NFL receiver.

 

[GoPGo]

Do you realize the Packers play football??? I don´t give a damn about Janis being the same size or as athletic as Julio Jones.

With all due respect, I was discussing that with another poster, so I really couldn't give a damn what you give a damn about. I'm sure the Packers don't give a damn about rare athleticism either.

The only thing I care about is his ability to play receiver in the NFL and so far he hasn´t been able to get on the field with the Packers.

Now you're just making stuff up as you go. He certainly did get on the field. Whether or not you feel like it counts or not is irrelevant.

He will probably compete with Abbrederis and some of the undrafted rookies for a roster spot this year again but I don´t expect him to have a major impact on the Packers 2015 season.

You can throw Montgomery in that mix too as far as competing for roster spots. MM isn't going to hand him the #4 spot on a platter. That #4 WR position could end up going to any one of Montgomery, Janis, Abbrederis, or White. And I would say that the addition of Montgomery to the mix makes it more difficult for Abbrederis to make the cut than it does Janis. Given a choice between big, fast, strong, healthy and raw; or small, average, weak, injury prone and raw, Abbrederis is going to have to do some outstanding things in TC and preseason to supplant Janis. Oh wait, my bad. You don't give a damn what anyone does in preseason. You're more worried about "pedigree" to make roster decisions.

 

[Mondio]

It took him a couple years to be featured, but he was not timid. Over half his catches were big meaningful catches his rookie year. Making the tough catch for a first down or a TD and he hardly dropped anything