1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

It's been reported that...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by retiredgrampa, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    ...Klemm has now been put on IR. What a 2 yr. waste of money.
     
  2. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    979
    Ratings:
    +86
    Ted Thompson's big sign from a year ago....He could have kept one of the guards who left if he had kept all the money he wasted on useless players in free agency from a year ago.
     
  3. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, because Marco Rivera in obvious decline is a good thing at the dollars he signed fo??!!?. And how much for Wahle?? What will you pay your tackles in that scenario.

    And how many solid guards were floating around in FA the last couple years? Very few.

    Judge the line that lines up when the gamres start.
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8

    The sarcasm meter broke through on that one lol

    funny stuff
     
  5. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    Careful.....guys. It wasn't a bad signing. TT has never made a bad signing. It was just bad luck.







    Better get that meter fixed Zero!
     
  6. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    Klemm wasn't the 'big sign' from last year silly. Everyone is smarter than that.
     
  7. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +0
    There wasn't enough money in the depleted piggy bank for a big signing was there? I was under the impression we were in cap hell. Signing 2 All Pro lineman might have been a little difficult, unless of course we used the Mike Shanahan method accounting.

    Some of you have posted in the past how we could have signed Wahle, but have never attached this hypothetical cap page. Could someone show us non believers the numbers for Wahles signing with the 05-06 GBP cap. Forget about Rivera, he was already on borrowed knees in Green Bay, Jerry Jones is just an idiot. You may remove Klemm and Odwyer.
     
  8. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,423
    Ratings:
    +1
    Thompson more than addressed our team's line need by drafting Colledge and Spitz...he had no resources with which to work with, but he waited, and look

    a lot of the thompson bashers complained when he didn't sign Lecharles Bentley this offseason and he's on IR now
     
  9. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    All GM's make bad signings. Klemm was one of them. It's no big deal. I just love the guys that can't admit that it was. What is this trance the man has on you. Must be the white hair and non-blinking eyes. Just don't stare too long at him during his next press conference and everything will be OK.
     
  10. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,900
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's the Man Love and Teddy would be very happy with that!
     
  11. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's none of that with me, I just contend that it wasn't possible to keep Wahle, some have said it was. Please show it to me in black in white, and keep under the cap. Any TT basher that thinks Wahle would have acccepted a lessor contract from Thompson to stay in GB than he received in Carolina has some serious reality issues. Wahle signed a hugely backloaded contract in which his money year was 2005-2006. His cap number was around $11M. Renegotiate or cut him was the only choice.

    Please, will someone step up to the plate and show me the numbers on how Wahle would have been retained.

    Depack, I'm not defending anyone, I would just like to see how it is Wahle would have been signed under the cap.

    Klemm was a bad signing for a starting. He is a good signing if he were to be a backup tackle.
     
  12. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    That's OK....I'm not bashing TT. I don't know the numbers of Wahl's contract but I have read that Wahl thought the Packers never really tried to re-sign him. I don't know either way. I don't have a problem with TT not being able to get it done. You need to look at the whole picture. It's way too early to say but so far I didn't like the job he did last season, including the draft, but I love what he's done so far this year, including the draft. Who knows?
     
  13. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you can get me the numbers for Whale's contract, I'd be more than happy to give a shot at trying to figure out a contract that would have made things work...
     
  14. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    You can search the forum to find the links for the info. It couldn't have been done unless he would have taken a really small salary on year one an ballooned year two.
     
  15. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +0
    Wahle got a 5 year $28.5M contract from Carolina with a two tiered signing bonus of 11.5M.

    Thanks AADP.

    Please see if it was impossible or not. Sh^tcan Klemm and O'dwyer and if you want, you can cut KGB (I wouldn't mind).

    I really believe when Sherman resigned Clifton, he made a choice between the two. I was surprised Clifton was resigned at the time, but was happy about it. If it really boiled down to a choice between the two, Sherman made a good decision.
     
  16. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have about 3 million in space to work with, I assume?
     
  17. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just keep in mind that you don't have the luxury of knowing about the new CBA at the time of this contract!

    We are all a bunch of Geeks!
     
  18. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    Alrighty, give a a few minutes to get a rough outline.]

    It was, of course, known that the cap would increase, so I'll use that to my advantage.
     
  19. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    Wahle got a 5 year $28.5M contract from Carolina with a two tiered signing bonus of 11.5M.


    If I want to keep Whale, I'm handicapped because of my salary cap this year. That means I have to low ball him presently, and give him an outrageous offer, one that will overpay him WHILE allowing me the ability to get out of it once the high payout starts, without any cap ramifications.

    Length of contract: 5 years

    1st year salary: I offer Whale a low salary, starting point is $500,000. I offer him a 1.5 milllion dollar signing bonus, which is spread out over 5 years, meaning I take a cap hit of $300,000 extra this year. Total value of the deal in year one is $800,000. Leaves me enough cash, about 2 million to sign any players along the way should we have injuries. If worse comes to worse, I ask Brett to convert a part of his base salary (about 2 million or so) into a roster bonus for this upcoming year, once activated will be spread over the remainder of the contract, making sure Brett gets his money, and I save an additional $500,000 or so on the cap. Total cap charge: $800,000.

    Year 2: (Carry over signing bonus charge = $300,000) Brett may not be here, so we will have about an extra 8 million or so to play with. Add that to the money that will be freed up from this year, and we have some serious cash to play with. 4 years left on the deal, I need to pay him a ton this year. Base salary will be 2 million dollars, a big jump. Roster bonus of of 10 million, which will be spread out amongst the cap for 4 years, costing me 2.5 million in subsequent years. Total cap charge for this year: 2 million base + $300,000 signing + 2.5 million signing bonus, which equates to 4.8 million dollars.

    So far the deal is worth: $500,000 base + 2 million base = 2.5 million base. Bonuses: 10 million + 1.5 million = 11.5 million bonus. Total value thus far: 11.5 + 2.5 = 14 million.

    Year 3: (Carry over charge = 2.8 million) Well I am under the impression Brett is gone, or in his final year. If this his is last year, I think I can ask Whale to defer his bonus payment until next year, which I think he will gladly do. If Brett is gone, I have even more money to spend. Starting base salary: $3 million. 3 years left on the deal, so I will add a moderate roster bonus, one I can manage. 3 million dollar roster bonus, spread out over 3 years. another 1 million cap charge for this year. 3 base + 2.8 in bonuses + 1 million in bonuses = 6.8 million cap charge for the year, so we are good to go, seeing as I expect the salary cap to be damn close to 100 million.

    Total value of the deal thus far: 14 million + 3 million base + 3 million roster bonus = 20 million.

    Year 4: (Carry over cap charge: 3.8 million) Well I think I can commit a little more to Whale this year, since I expect us to have over a 100 million dollar salary cap. Base sallary: 4 million. roster bonus of $400,000, divided over two years equals a charge of $200,000 this year. Cap charge this year: 3.8 million in bonuses + 4 million base + 200,000 bonus = 8 million cap charge.

    Total value of deal thus far: 20 million + 4 million base + $400,000 bonus = 24.4 million

    Year 5: (Carry over charge: $4 million) Final year of the deal, so I set the base salary at 4 million, Whale will be 33 at this point. I add a $100,000 roster bonus this year, so the cap is set at 8.1 million. I add a clause that I can buy out Whale, lets say for 3 million. If he refuses this clause, I argue that at any point I can refuse to pay him a roster bonus, and set him free. Thus he accepts my offer of a buyout clause, one which will be triggered if a payment of a roster bonus is NOT made, or at your discression. So in year 5, I can pay 3 million, and get out of the deal (or at any point).

    this buyout clause also allows me to protect myself if I need to cut Whale, incase of the new CBA.

    Total calue of contract: 24.4 million + 4.1 million = 28.5 million, with a buyout clause of 3 million, up it to 4/5 million if it becomes a sticking point.

    5 year deal worth 28.5 million dollars.
     
  20. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    There is a rough outline, quickly done. Might need minor revising later on, but the basic priciple of the deal is set.
     
  21. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    810
    Ratings:
    +0
    Do you really think Wahle would have accepted a $1.5M signing bonus in the prime of his career just to be a Packer?

    I think with that attempt Wahle would have told TT that he will play for his existing contract which had a cap hit between $10M and $11M because of the roster bonus. That's a pretty tough spot for a GM up against the cap.

    Good work thought AADP, but there aren't too many home town discounts accepted by players, yet alone agents.
     
  22. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree, and that is where I hoped he would have taken a little less to be in GB, and have Brett be on his team. Wishful thinking? Yup. None-the-less I could say I tried.

    The other solution to this problem would be, "under the table" money with Whale. Make an agreement to send some money "under the table", so it is not accounted for at all. Of course if I get caught, I'm royally F'd over... :lol:
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    Injuries happen. It's a waste, but no one KNEW he was gonna get hurt. What if they would have signed Wahle, and he was the one that got hurt. Then there would be crying how we wasted that money.
    No one knows the future.
     
  24. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,991
    Ratings:
    +0
    GB didn't have the money for Wahle. However Rivera maybe we could of push.

    As for Klemm the expectations were to high for him in Green Bay. He would of been a solid backup for the Pack this year and right now we need depth too our line. Unforunately it didn't work out.
     

Share This Page