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It wasn't the losing that bothered me...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Timmons, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    I didn't expect a win on the road in Seattle. But I did expect to see some run defense. Our dline was getting pushed around by a suspect o line and our linebackers were waiting for Shaun to come to them.

    Does Nick Barnett make that much of a difference? I didn't think so, but maybe.

    Either way, our lack of run d was depressing. I expected Hasselbeck to beat us in the air. Had their receivers been able to catch a ball, this never would have been close.

    How do you lose a game with four turnovers in the first have? Simple: Have no running game and no running defense.
     
  2. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    And a coach who's learning on the job.
     
  3. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    Who is not used to win...
     
  4. Hammer

    Hammer Cheesehead

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    I thought the same thing about Barnett being out. It seemed the perimeter runs were pretty successful, perhaps NB might have gotten there a step faster. Also, when Hodge ran in that fumble, he didn't look nearly as fast or smooth running as NB, maybe a little stiff ( perhaps that was due to a minor injury or the traction ).
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yup he doesnt know what it is like to have success...

    Even in N.O when he was off cord for a few years and they broke all kinds of scoring records and when he became off-c of the year..He still never knew what it was like to have success..

    FIRE HIM NOW
     
  6. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    I am not saying fire him now,,,,

    But also remember San Francisco he also broke other kind of records and he is not doing that well in GB, so far yes so far.

    By the way how far he got in the playoffs in NO???

    Anyway we will have him for at least one more year and time will tell if you are right or if I am right
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    1-1 in the playoffs..

    42 wins 38 losses while he was the of/c there...the year he was not there they only won 3 games...that was last year..

    In N.O he had players with lot of experince..In San Fran he had lot of rookies..

    Stop focusing on just the one bad year he had in San Fran..If that would have been how his teams performed all the time since 2000 it would be very valid...

    N.O history
     
  8. umair

    umair Cheesehead

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    what bothered me was that favre did not need to rush, we had 7 min to play and he just threw it deep. he should have lpayed it more safe.


    a big part of this loss was because of favre and not getting points off of turnovers.
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooo....

    MM has no clue what he is doing, and either does TT...

    They told Brett to do that..
     
  10. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    LT, you've often brought up MM's NO stats as a key component of his overall coaching credentials and thats understandable as successful creds are certainly something you'd consider to be a prerequisite in both choosing and evaluating an HC.

    But that's the weird part. If you were TT taking over a team that had been living dangerously close to the salary cap for too long and drawing a blank in draft after draft. And if you like TT were a firm believer in building through the draft and avoiding high stakes FA, chances are you'd pretty much anticipate that as part of your rebuilding/development you would be fielding a very young, inexperienced team for the first year or so. Would you then look for coaching staff with excellent credentials and great references but who were also extremely young and inexperienced - rookie HC/OC/DC? Or would you say that what the team lacks is expereince and maturity and if you cant have that on your roster, all the more reason to find it in your coaching staff. Wouldnt you say let me shorten the learning curve, let me not re-invent the wheel and therefore let me find people who have been through a rebuilding process before, who have a proven record of moulding a young, raw team into a solid contender?

    It's for these very reasons that the coaching staff that TT has put together or overseen the putting together of seems very strange and certainly not the best that he can have done or the best fit for the team's needs.
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Excellent question..

    I guess that would depend on the guys I brought in to interview..

    One might have the experience that the team might need, but has such a chip on his shoulder it would be hard to work with..

    or one guy like MM who has shown in the past he knows how to get points and make an offense work but lacks the experience to get a young team to perform..

    For me it is hard to say whom I would wont in place...IMO you need a balance of someone with at the VERY least, experience in making something work, knows how to handle all players not just rookies and vets but a combo of both..He also needs to know how to handle the position of being on the spot light EVERY DAY...

    So to really answer your question..It is to hard for me to say exactly who would have been the right fit for ME...

    TT seems to have the fit he wanted, and so far, it looks like MM has the system that CAN work but the guys need to be able to execute it..And for that to happen these guys need chances to work it out in games..

    in practices the guys learn what is suppose to be done, but until they get out there they dont have an idea how to really do it..

    For example..

    your given a book on how to fix sometihng on a helicopter...you read on how to do it, but until you get your hands in there, you dont REALLY know how to do it.
     
  12. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    And thats the point, if you base it entirely on who's the right fit for me, you're not necessarily going to end up with a guy that the best person for the needs of the team. And I believe that's the situation we're in.
     
  13. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    I had much the same thoughts last night. When you have a very young, inexperienced team, a young, inexperienced HC is the LAST thing you want. But that's what you have. I have always been a believer in the need for, first & foremost, a good OL. I thought they were improving but apparently not enough. So I ask myself if it makes sense to expect any marked improvement next year? Why should it be so? The only thing that changes is they are all one year older. There is no magic button to push that suddenly improves their blocking. They don't suddenly understand what they've been doing wrong. There is no epiphany of knowledge and talent. They are STILL what they are. We must get at least 2 new OL who can work this zone scheme...guys with the strength and speed to make it work. All we have now is lack of talent...we must face it. When you rush for 51 yds. againest Seattle that would seem logical. I had high hopes that one more year of good drafting and this team would start making waves. I was wrong. It will take at least two more great drafts; that in itself is too much to expect. TT is NOT a god. With better luck, we have a chance to win two of the last five games. 6-10...better but no cigar.
     
  14. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    If you guys think Thompson should've hired a more experienced coach, I want to see some names. Who was out there who would've been a good fit?

    Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a young team and an inexperienced coach, as long as he's good (and the jury is still out on McCarthy, of course). Let them grow together.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    people keep saying the youth, its the youngest team etc....

    but tell me from last night on the blocked fg who missed his block..

    who threw the int in the endzone?

    Was it not Bubba, and Brett?

    But then you go to the defense side..Hodge prob did not play as good as Barrnett would have, and Dedny did not have good games either..

    but what about KGB/Manuel...Experinced vets and they stunk it up as well...
     
  16. Yared-Yam

    Yared-Yam Cheesehead

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    KGB laid another stinker last night. His one good play when he knocked the ball out was lucky.

    Montgomery should get more PT. Notice they ran to the left almost every single time? Who plays on the left? KGB. He reeks of bad football
     
  17. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    How about Jim Bates for one!
     
  18. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    I do think Jim Bates would have done a better job than MM, simply because the players seem to take to him and because of the job he did with the defense last year.

    Sean Peyton, even if you discount the benefit of hindsight, was someone who'd worked with Parcells, had the benefit of working on the rebuilding job in Dallas and had super bowl experience with the Giants.

    I do appreciate that apart from these two, potential HCs in the job market last year werent the best coaches going. But just as you arent going to build a successful team by saying that there wasnt any talent available, you need to target someone who you think is the right fit for the team and someone you can work with and then go all out to sign that person. I dont agree with the Gruden price, but TB's philosophy was right and it got them a superbowl.
     
  19. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I may be in the minority here, but I think this coaching staff has grown immensely throughout the season. This is a team without much talent and yet they had a chance to win that game last night. The defense just got handled by a better offense. The offense couldn't run the ball. I was amazed that Brett was even playing. And yet, with four defensive turnovers, we couldn't muster enough points to put them away. Our special teams were awful because our special team players are our second team players and they're not very good. There just isn't much talent here, but yet they've gotten better each game. The record doesn't show it, but this team has improved.
     
  20. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    After thinking it over, this game looked exactly like the monday night game vs. Philly in October...we led, they made some mistakes, we let them back into the game by not burying them when we had the chance...

    Lets be honest, leading at the half who really felt confident that we'd hold on to beat Philly...

    Lets be honest, up 21-12 in the 3rd qtr who really felt confident that we'd hold on to beat Seattle...

    Lets be honest, right wrong or whatever, we're NOT THAT GOOD (yet)...we don't have a solid running game to allow us to have possession of the ball...we don't have a solid run defense to stop the other guys from having possession of the ball...and we do not have the depth on defense to sustain the other guys having the ball so often...If you don't have the ball you're not gonna score, because once we get on to competing with teams in a race for the playoffs, which I think is an extreme possibility next season, we can't count on the other teams to make mistakes, and if they do, put 7 on the board...

    we play a 6-5 jets team next week but they don't have Shaun Alexander, in fact I dont know who their running back is...prove to me and to yourselves that we can play with the big boys, even if its the jets
     
  21. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Good answer. I was hoping Thompson would hire Bates as well. The only thing I can figure is that Thompson did not have confidence in Bates being able to build a good offense. The OC hire would've been crucial for Bates.
     
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    He got the D to play good, but not like everyone thinks..Just cuz they were ranked #1 vs the pass ( skewed stat) and #7 overall was helped by the skewed #1 stat..

    I would have liked to see Bates hired as well...Some one here says there is more to the story and thats why he doesnt like TT..But who truly knows..



    Why didnt Miami hire Bates? After all look at what he did with them the last games he was the "HC"..Something is there that we are not privy too..


    While Gruden got them to the Superbowl, most of those players were in place whe ne got there and they were already near the top teams when he came on..

    Granted HE did get them there...But as the saying goes. what has he done for them latley?


    The Wolf, Holmgren, Favre thing was a VERY special thing, IMO it can not be even close to being repeated in the NFL ever again.

    I just hope some are not using that scenerio to judge everything now...
     

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