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Is Woodson a top 15 packer of all time?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, May 5, 2013.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Hutson white Starr Rodgers Favre Gregg and canadeo are all ahead of Woodson on the list.

    Where does Woodson land on your list of all time packers?

    Players to keep in mind: sharpe, driver, lofton, gillingham, butler, green, hinkle, herber, ringo, Kramer, Jordan, Davis hornung, wood, Taylor, adderly, and nitschtke.
     
  2. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Yes. Top 15. If Reggie White is top 15 for his skill and accomplishment, and his role in bringing a Lombardi Trophy home, then so is Wood.
     
  3. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Probably around #15. In a group with Carroll Dale, Driver, Billie Howton, Butler, Herber.
     
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  4. slaughter25

    slaughter25 Cheesehead

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    He's in the vicinity. So many good players its hard to round out a top 15 with any consistency.
     
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  5. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Nope, to many great players in our storied franchise history. Top 20 for sure. Larry McCarren has to be up near the top 20 as well.
     
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  6. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    No Love for Clay Matthews? How about John Brockington or Lynn Dickey or Paul Coffman? And I didn't see Boyd Dowler or Max McGee. If Sterling Sharpe belongs, then so does Robert Brooks. If Jim Ringo belongs, then maybe Bowman too - or more likely neither. And if you want to go way back, I understand Johnny Blood and Cal Hubbard were pretty good. And slightly more recent, Tobin Rote.

    I'd rate (in order): Favre, Rodgers (with a strong chance to move above Favre before he finishes), Hutson, White, Gregg. J. Kramer, Nitschke, Davis, Hornung, Taylor, Starr, Adderley, WOODSON (#13), Lofton, W. Wood. That's 15, but this is fun so I will go on. Brockington, Rote, Sharpe, Matthews, Jordan, Brooks, Driver, Butler, Blood, Dickey. That's 25; I guess I'll settle for that except to say, I bet in 10 or 15 years Eddie Lacy makes the list.
     
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  7. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    I like the optimism about Eddie Lacy making the list and surpassing great green bay packers when he hasn't taken 1 snap in the NFL yet
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Robert Brooks wasn't in sharpe's league.

    Sharpe 5x pro bowler, 3x 1st team all pro, led league in TDs 2x, receptions 3x, and yards once. Keep in mind he was topping Jerry rice when he was racking up these accomplishments.

    Brooks never topped any statistical category of merit and never made a pro bowl or all pro team.
     
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  9. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    This man speaks the truth
     
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  10. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Lambeau, Hubbard, Hutson, Johnny Blood McNally, Hinkle, Michalske, Herber, Canadeo, Taylor, Gregg, Starr, Nitschke, Adderly, Davis, Ringo, Hornung, Wood, Jordan, Lofton, White, or Robinson. Once Favre and Woodson go into the HOF, they'll be on the list as well.
     
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  11. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    I agree.. But an even better question...

    Would Sterling Sharpe be a Top 10 Packer if he didn't have his neck injury?? He surely would be in the Hall of Fame.
     
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  12. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    To many big names ahead of him so far, but one day he may be considered one of the best packers of all time, but top 15 IDK about that.....

    Paul Hornung, Willie Davis, Don Hutson, Bart starr, Forrest Gregg, Ray Nitschke, Boyd dowler, John brockington,Max McGee, James lofton, Jim Ringo, Willie wood, Jim taylor, Jerry Kramer, Reggie white, Fuzzy Thurston, Herb Adderley, Brett Favre, Sterling sharpe, Donald driver...... my head hurts from trying to think of all those guys, plus I'm sure I left out a bunch
     
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  13. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    Agreed. With a team as old as the Pack it's really hard to pick a solid list, too many guys to put on it.
     
  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I don't like assigning spots, but I can draw a line and put guys into a group. Most people have it about right. I see Woodson in the 10-20 range, for both his ability and what he meant to the organization. He along with Rodgers and Matthews were the three biggest reasons that we can brag about another Super Bowl trophy. More than just the trophy, he dominated our defense for several seasons and was the leader for many more. That counts as much as numbers in my world.
     
  15. Vladimirr

    Vladimirr Cheesehead

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    My list is close, though I'd move Hutson to #2 instead of 3.

    Any list that doesn't have Lambeau at the top is just flat out wrong. Founded the team. Played for 10 years as their most valuable player (and while playing, oh yeah he was their coach too)... and then he led the team to six league championships in his 28 years of coaching. What else do you people want? :D
     
  16. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    [/sarcasm] But he didn't win the Super Bowl so those 6 championships obviously don't count [sarcasm]
     
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  17. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    No argument here, but my list was based on when the individual was elected to the HOF. And, of course, Lombardi would be on the list, although he never was a player--and he was the most important of all from the 1960s on, imo.
     
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  18. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

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    RkPlayerFromToDraftTmLgGGSYrsPBAP1AV ▾AV per game
    1. 7Aaron Rodgers2005201224-JanGNBNFL8578821901.058823529
    2. 9Reggie White*199319984-JanGNBNFL9592662870.915789474
    3. 3Jim Ringo*19531963Jul-79GNBNFL13112611761170.893129771
    4. 1Brett Favre19922007Feb-33GNBNFL25525316932210.866666667
    5. 10Ahman Green20002009Mar-76GNBNFL10491840860.826923077
    6. 19Ken Ellis19701975Apr-93GNBNFL8383621670.807228916
    7. 22Tobin Rote1950195617-FebGNBNFL8473710650.773809524
    8. 34Willie Buchanon197219787-JanGNBNFL8080731580.725
    9. 15Charles Woodson200620124-JanGNBNFL100100742710.71
    10. 6James Lofton*197819866-JanGNBNFL136136971940.691176471
    11. 13Sterling Sharpe198819947-JanGNBNFL112112753770.6875
    12. 14Lynn Dickey19761985Mar-56GNBNFL105101900710.676190476
    13. 2Bart Starr*1956197117-200GNBNFL19615816411310.668367347
    14. 25Greg Jennings20062012Feb-52GNBNFL9686720640.666666667
    15. 48Tim Harris19861990Apr-84GNBNFL7670511500.657894737
    16. 45Edgar Bennett199219964-103GNBNFL8062500500.625
    17. 36Mike McCoy197019762-JanGNBNFL9480700570.606382979
    18. 16Antonio Freeman19952003Mar-90GNBNFL11690811690.594827586
    19. 11Fred Carr196819775-JanGNBNFL1401121030830.592857143
    20. 4LeRoy Butler19902001Feb-48GNBNFL18116512441070.591160221
    21. 27Aaron Kampman200220095-156GNBNFL112104820630.5625
    22. 32Nick Barnett2003201029-JanGNBNFL107107800590.551401869
    Charles Woodson has the 9th best Approximate Value per game SINCE 1950 (as far back as the AV calculations go) for Packers with more than 60 starts. Throw in Hinkle, Goldenberg, and Hutson ahead of him, and take a Ken Ellis out (too brief) and he's somewhere around 11th as a starting point, ballpark. Sort of messy and unaligned but couldn't get a more justified version without error.
     
  19. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Any list that has dickey ahead of Starr needs to be thrown out immediately and never looked at again
     
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  20. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

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    Or maybe people need to use logical skills to evaluate specific players for their value, especially when one got to play in the decade that is likely the best in a 90 year time frame and when another got to play with one HOF receiver, two solid core receivers and nothing else. Simply, there is a complete lack of appreciation of what Lynn Dickey did, and perhaps people need to ponder what he could have done a decade earlier or a decade later and the surrounding talent on hand at those times. Anyone who doesn't believe that Dickey could have won a super bowl with the teams of the 60's, or won a super bowl with the teams of the mid-90's doesn't know football or how good Dickey was.
     
  21. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    UP NEXT, A DEBATE OF WHO WAS BETTER, JIM TAYLOR OR SAMKON GADO!
     
  22. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

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    I'm done wasting time with stupid people. Good luck with your meatball assessments of how the world works. I can only assume your lack of ability to apprise good from bad applies in all facets of your life. If someone of superior insight and intelligence deigns to spend some time opening your eyes, not once but twice, results in troll caliber responses, then you don't deserve anymore time. If the 4th best QB in team history, who got to play on teams with absolutely no defenses, no running games, and mediocre offensive lines at best is compared by yourself to Gado, I think it proves you're a meatball. How well did Favre do when he HAD to play with Gado? Ended up a lot like what Dickey was able to get with terrible teams, didn't he? Give Dickey a top O line for a decade and a top quarter of the league defense on top of that and Dickey would have had a lot more respect from fans. It's not Dickey's fault all the Packers had, on either side of the ball, was throwing bomb after bomb after bomb. That was his lot in life. But maybe it takes an IQ above room temperature to figure that out. Statistics pretty much prove that out, and operating from memory serves as well. Dickey and one great receiver and two good receivers were able to at least get mediocrity for the team. Just ponder how we would regard Dickey if a Reggie White were on hand, and a Leroy Butler, and a Gilbert Brown, and a Levens/Bennett combo, and Holmgren designing the offense etc etc etc. And the stats pretty much PROVE that Dickey could have contributed nicely. But geniuses such as yourself can't see that. I'm sure you're one of those dyed in the wool "Favre saved the franchise" meatballs as well. The QB gets all the credit, or takes all the blame. And the reality, if you have a brain and can discern numbers, is so much different.
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    You're posts make me laugh. At first I thought you were kidding then I thought you were trolling. Now I think you are serious which is by far the funniest.

    Your assertion that dickey is in a conversation with starr is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve to be touched on. I hope everyone else ignores you as well.

    Thanks for the personal attacks btw, chill, it's the Internet, don't have a stroke.
     
  24. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

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    Is it so far from your comprehension that Dickey very likely is as good as Starr at the application of football, and what separates them simply is the surrounding talent? One had Lofton and the other had about a dozen HOFers. But that INNATELY they were next to each other as far as talent within Packer history? Put Starr on the Packers of the 70's and 80' s and put Dickey on the Packers in the 60's (or mid-90's), what's the result? And that is what the information previously provided shows. And that I'M being hilarious because I resent your meatball "internet" stupidity? It is indeed the internet, filled with dolts who shoot their mouthes (or fingers) off at the drop of a hat. All I did was try and educate people who tend to pull their opinions, dry and sideways, from their @$$e$ and all I get is heat from a guy who apparently can't use his brain and simply stroke his chin and say "boy, I didn't realize Dickey was as good as he was, too bad he was stuck on those rudderless teams of the 70's and 80's instead of blessed with being around in 60's or 90's". Nope, instead it's "gee I'm so smart, I think I'll shoot my mouth off and shi'ite on this guy's posts". I can stand people who are dense but are willing to learn. Stupid people who choose to remain stupid, and are loud about it, and point their finger at someone who knows which way is up, I can't. So instead of walking away from our time together with a new appreciation for Dickey, you're going continue to cram words into the narrative that Dickey is to Starr as Gado is to Taylor and remain just as dense as when you came in. That's your choice, and I'm Mr. Chill about it one way or the other.

    A decade for a dynasty-

    http://pfref.com/pi/share/xed3s

    Another decade of mediocre to terrible-

    http://pfref.com/pi/share/yYaAz

    And given that Starr and Dickey had comparable value contributed per game, what do you THINK would have happened if they swapped eras? Pretty hilarious. Give Dickey nine more HOFers to play with, and Starr only one and how does the conversation go? Of course I would still see the comparability between the two and you'd be giving me shi'ite about how I dare compare Starr to Dickey. One is an educated assessment and the other would still be one comprised of meatball caliber "analysis" of what is extracted from ones' posterior.

    It's sad that someone who can use INFORMATION from the internet comes off as a troll to someone who apparently can't use it correctly. But in the end, I know which way is up and that's all that really matters. If you reject the assistance to join me, that's your prerogative. Just don't look so silly doing it.
     
  25. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Curious, did you type this up yourself or did you copy and paste? Wondering where the link is if you did. Wouldn't want this forum to be a party to plagiarism...
     

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