1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Is football a team sport?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Fuzznuts, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    561
    Ratings:
    +1
    I ask this question because on this, and other Packer forums that I visit, there are some who put forth the argument that Favre should retire, is over-rated, is not a clutch QB when it counts, etc..etc..because his "record" in the playoffs is not that great--according to them. And these are Packer "fans" saying this...so I felt that I needed to address this question to the forum.

    Is football a team sport?

    The argument that Favre is not that good, or over-rated, goes like this. Favre's record is not that good in the playoffs, therfore he is an over-rated, not so good QB, and can not be compared to the elites in the game like Montana, Brady, etc.

    My question to them is, what was John Elways record before he won those two SB's? Not very good. And he only won those SB's at the end of his career when he had a great team around him and he didn't have to do too much. Does that make him less of a great QB? Not in my book....

    Favre brought teams to the playoffs that had no business being there, and when they lost against the better teams, it was no surprise.

    My point is that people need to focus on the team as well as the QB when making these statements rather than just looking at stats and not taking the career of the individual (and the circumstances) into consideration....

    It's not easy to win it all in the NFL.....just ask Dan Marino.

    Is Dan Marino a lousy football player because he didn't win it all, or was he remarkable for doing incredible things with those subpar Dolphin teams..?
     
  2. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5,640
    Ratings:
    +113
    Fuzz thats a great question Marino never won a ring and he is a bad QB? i think not Favre had a great team around him but the Giants out played us on Sunday
     
  3. SNAP

    SNAP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +15
    Joe Namath

    Hall of Fame Induction: 1985

    TDS
    173

    INT
    220

    YDS
    27,663

    RTG
    65.5

    COMP%
    50.1

    These are Joe Willie's stats.....Do you think he deserves to be in the HOF?

    Based on his stats ....no........But he led the Jets to the most improbable victory in SB history.........He essentially caused the 2 leagues to merge.......He was the 1st 4000 yd passer (in 14 games) and he played on some very bad Jet teams which were usually behind in most of their games and he was forced to pass and the opposing teams D's knew what was coming............Brett's a great QB and even though fb is a team sport w/o a very good QB(Rex Grossman excluded) your team will not consistently win.
    NYG's defenses in 1986 & 1990 when they won 2 SB's was outstanding but I doubt they win it all w/o Phil Simms......who in my mind, was the best QB NYG ever had but not as good as Brett.
    And as all of you know the QB is front & center and he'll always get the blame..........like Romo and his Mexico trip. Namath used to be out late every nite and it never showed up on the field & he made the HOF.
     
  4. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    561
    Ratings:
    +1
    Is football a team game?

    I like Joe Willy.

    He was "great" in my book.

    What makes a great one?

    I dont' know, but I know it when I see it!
     
  5. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6
    Re: Is football a team game?


    im guessing this was sometime after you stopped cheering for the cowboys when Roger Staubach was QB. But just a little before began cheering for the 49ers and Joe Montana. This was all way before you became a Packers fan in 93
     
  6. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    561
    Ratings:
    +1
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Nice try skeezix...

    I was a Packer fan since 1967...but you're used to being wrong aren't you, so you haven't broken your streak...

    Why do you like to try and tear the great ones down...does it make you feel more like a man, somehow?

    Way to contribute to the forum..
    :thumbsup:

    Congratulations...
    :roll:
     
  7. SNAP

    SNAP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +15
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Fuzz.........Namath was great...............I mean I watched him 8 times year + 8 games on radio(back then home games were blacked out) and it was a treat. The guy had a cannon and he when did that deep drop you knew he was going deep.
    If he had 2 good knees.............who knows
     
  8. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,338
    Ratings:
    +0
    Is football a team game?

    Man you guys are old. ;)
     
  9. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,576
    Ratings:
    +652
    Is football a team game?

    football is the ultimate team sport. but not all positions are created equal. football is based on the concept of war, and they don't call the QB "field general" for no reason. QB is the decision maker, and the world revolves around him. Of course you can't get the job done without OL "in the trenches", but surely you know all this stuff.
     
  10. SNAP

    SNAP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +15
    Re: Is football a team game?

    I started watching NYG in 1963.....I was 6. It was Tittle & Gifford's next to last season. The Bears beat them in the CG that year......you guys beat us the year before and the year before that.........How old are you Zomb??
     
  11. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,991
    Ratings:
    +0
    Is football a team game?

    I personally think Namath was the most overrated player to ever play the game. Just because you play one good game doesn't mean your a Hall of Famer. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl as a starting QB. Should he make the Hall of Fame?

    As for the topic itself. It's kind of a strange question.

    Football is the most unified sport out there. If one player isn't doing well then your team could get beaten. Basketball all you need is one star to make the playoffs. See the L.A. Lakers.

    Baseball isn't much of a team sport either. You just need a dominate player or two.

    Football is different. It takes a team to win and a team to lose. Some players will elevate their team but without a certain player they might be useless. People complained here when Favre played poorly in 05 that it wasn't his fault. He had nobody around him. He had no good TEAMMATES. See what happen? Give him quality players like we have now and we're one game away from the Super Bowl.

    If you blame Favre for the loss then why not McCarthy for calling the play? The real question is who put the Packers in the position they were in. The Packers did. GB put themselves in OT. Jarrett Bush could've recovered that fumble and one 25 yard completion, GB is in field goal range. Is it Bush's fault GB isn't going to the Super Bowl?

    How about Ruvell Martin's drop pass? Anyone remember that one.

    Heck even Favre's first INT could've spelled disaster for the Pack.

    Just because one person says Favre should retire doesn't mean you should take it so fricken seriously. Most people understand that football is a team sport. It always has been and always will be. I'm sure when people call for Favre to call it quits it's more so out of frustration and not 100% being serious.
     
  12. packerfan4ever

    packerfan4ever Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,067
    Ratings:
    +53
    Re: Is football a team game?

    it is a team sport and people have to realize the game wasnt its best for the pack i think they all share in the loss,from o-line d-line special teams they did not play their best but i dont feel the giants played like everyone says either they should have more points if that were the case and it never would have went into over time but to blame just brett no
     
  13. nathaniel

    nathaniel Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    905
    Ratings:
    +0
    Is football a team game?

    It's a team sport until you have a franchise player at the QB position. Then the QB is expected to be superhuman and win every game with his arm, until he throws an INT that costs the team the game. Then all the blame is his. At least that's what some people seem to think.
     
  14. mkapp

    mkapp Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    361
    Ratings:
    +0
    Is football a team game?

    ever watch "Any Given Sunday"?
     
  15. VAPAckerFan

    VAPAckerFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    Ratings:
    +0
    Re: Is football a team game?

    That play really pissed me off. All i could say after the giants recover the football was "Why didn't you fall on the ball you idiot" I was more upset at that play then when Favre threw the int in ot. :evil: :evil:
     
  16. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,338
    Ratings:
    +0
    Re: Is football a team game?

    37.

    I remember reading about those games. Tittle was trash talking and saying that he was going to rename Green Bay "Tittletown." Turns out it backfired and the Giants didn't do too well in those games.

    It was all in good humor though, so it's all good.
     
  17. Scythe

    Scythe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Messages:
    158
    Ratings:
    +0
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Err double post...
     
  18. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +4
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Someone grab a master lock.
     
  19. Scythe

    Scythe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Messages:
    158
    Ratings:
    +0
    Re: Is football a team game?

    AL/NL MVP:

    2007 - Alex Rodriguez, Jimmy Rollins
    2006 - Justin Morneau, Ryan Howard
    2005 - Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols
    2004 - Vladimir Guerrero, Barry Bonds
    2003 - Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds
    2002 - Miguel Tejada, Barry Bonds
    2001 - Ichiro Suzuki, Barry Bonds
    2000 - Jason Giambi, Jeff Kent
    1999 - Ivan Rodriguez, Chipper Jones
    1998 - Juan Gonzalez, Sammy Sosa
    1997 - Ken Griffey, Jr., Larry Walker
    1996 - Juan Gonzalez, Ken Caminiti
    1995 - Mo Vaughn, Barry Larkin
    1994 - Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell
    1993 - Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds

    How many of those guys won a World Series title?

    Zero.
     
  20. SNAP

    SNAP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +15
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Not if you were an NYG fan...........37-0 then 16-7.......Real funny......LOL.

    The Army wasnt going wasnt going to give a furlow to Hornung for the '62 game so Vince called President Kennedy and JFK got him the furlow. Seems Vince & JFK had met before and JFK told Vince that if he ever needed anything to just call........so Vince just called.......Great story.
     
  21. SNAP

    SNAP Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +15
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Pack, it is only natural that the QB gets the most blame. I've seen it w/Eli....heck I was at the Viking game where he was beyond horrible( 4picks for TDs). When the NYG defense plays bad he still gets the hits because now he feels the pressure of having to come from behind and he makes even more mistakes.
    He seems to be coming of age now especially since the Pats game. But people forget the NYG is one of only 3 teams(NE, Indy) that have made the playoffs the last 3 years and very few people around my parts give Eli any credit for it. And this is really the first year that the "D" has really stepped up.

    Yeah.....Brett made those 2 bad ints(1 didnt hurt) but the line couldnt stop the NYG run defense and NYG mixed up the passing and ground game to an extent the GB couldnt adjust properly.....For once, and believe me I've seen them for years, for once NYG offense became unpredictable.
    As a fan watching them thru the years I could tell what was coming from their O.

    And Eli's completions were very accurately thrown.......It was designed to be caught or incomplete w/little chance for a pick
     
  22. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,868
    Ratings:
    +2
    Is football a team game?

    Never Question A Single Game Performance By Brett.

    Never Compare Any Former QB To Brett.

    Never Compare Any Present Q.B. To Brett.

    Never Be A Young Back-Up To Brett.

    Never Be A G.M. Who Drafts A Q.B. While Brett Is Playing.

    Unless of course, you are willing to take the wrath of a pure and passionate, deep and life long hate, from some here on this forum.

    Just my advice.

    R.P.
     
  23. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +4
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Sound advice R.P.
    The only deep and life long statistic that concerns me is ... 1 ring, 11 years ago; 3-7 since. I assign no blame, I point no fingers. I am however, open to a different outcome.
     
  24. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,868
    Ratings:
    +2
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Do not get me wrong. I love Brett. It is just some advice about this forum and how some will hate you, because they may have a tainted and "Him Or No One" love for the man.

    It almost like talking to a "Stalker Of Jessica Simpson" who yells at you because you said: "Man... Racquel Welsh Was Hot."

    I think Brett is the greatest Q.B. in the history of the game. Better than both Joe's... Better than Marino, Bradshaw, better than anyone.

    HOWEVER.... What makes Brett "The Greatest In My Mind" is not the "Number Of Rings." It is what he has done with what he had to work with, and how he played the game.

    It is his "Guts and Glory" attitude.

    Forget The Hall Of Fame.... He will be there with all of the other Quarterbacks.

    However.... If the N.F.L. had a "Medal Of Honor" the way we recognize special soldiers who gave their all. He would be the only Q.B. in the Hall Of Fame that earned "The Medal Of Honor." for valor in the field of battle.
     
  25. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    Re: Is football a team game?

    Thats how i feel......Favre did the most with what he has had around him. Put another QB in there, and i doubt they would have the same results.
    It's a team sport, and if the guys around you don't perform, you end up like we did last weekend.
    There were many plays that COULD have made the outcome very different, and our guys didn't make those plays.
     

Share This Page