Is Capers getting it done?

[rodell330]

Our zone defense stinks, how many times did the Saints convert on third and 15 or longer? Just pittiful i'll tell ya. We are to vanilla in our coverages, Troy Aikman echoed the same thing that i've been saying in that we have the corners to play more man to man. Allowing a wr a free release off the line on third and longs is just plain dumb to me.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

It does not help when you only rush 3 on 3rd and longs. last time I checked 3 vs 5 does not win much. They need to rush 4 or even 5 on 3rd and long. You give brees that much time, I don't care if we only rushed 1 guy, he will find someone open.

 

[longtimefan]

They are still the Saints and still have Drew Brees

not that it should happen every time, but he is a really really really good q.b

So please consider that when trying to analyze the defense

 

[rodell330]

They are still the Saints and still have Drew Brees

not that it should happen every time, but he is a really really really good q.b

So please consider that when trying to analyze the defense

True but i think you are missing my point. What i'm saying because he IS a really really good qb why did we make it so easy for him to sit back in the pocket on third and longs and find open wr's? Why did we not try to jam the wr's off route instead of allowing a free release? that's what i'm saying. That's what i am analyzing.

 

[gbpack12_2_89]

we have always been soft on third and long and 4th and long.....4th and 26.......

 

[rodell330]

we have always been soft on third and long and 4th and long.....4th and 26.......

i'll never forget 4th and 26. Ugh

 

[El Guapo]

Let's be honest here. There is no "formula" for beating elite quarterbacks. I guarantee that Brees, Rodgers, and Brady can all beat zone coverages with only 3 pass-rushers equally as well as they can beat man-to-man with a heavier rush. It's really more about trying to disguise your defense versus what you're actually running.

It's like in baseball. You're not going to be more or less successful with the curve ball with pro hitters. It's all about getting the batter to think that you're delivering a fastball, a slider, etc. That's the only way to get him to whiff on a curveball. Same with elite QBs and zone vs man. The best quarterbacks can beat those things.

All that said, you then have to question Caper's ability to throw Brees the slider when he's expecting the curve.

 

[gbpack12_2_89]

i'll never forget 4th and 26. Ugh

Yes that was an awfull game but I dont think its capers doing on the 3rd and long these guys need to cover they were 5 yards off them everytime.

 

[longtimefan]

True but i think you are missing my point. What i'm saying because he IS a really really good qb why did we make it so easy for him to sit back in the pocket on third and longs and find open wr's? Why did we not try to jam the wr's off route instead of allowing a free release? that's what i'm saying. That's what i am analyzing.

That is why I said it shouldnt happen every time

 

[TJV]

I'm not sure if this belongs on the "official" fire Capers thread but since this thread was most recently replied to: First I have to say I agree about the DBs being more aggressive. I don't think Capers had any choice about playing zone almost all the time last season because of lack of pressure on QBs, Williams' one-armed play, Shields drop off, poor play by the safeties, etc. But that's not the case this season and I would like to see the DBs challenge receivers at the LOS more, particularly on third and long and even more-so against "timing" offenses. I will note that there's a danger on third and long of DBs having contact with receivers after the 5-yard limit and it's also very frustrating having that automatic first down called on third and long. But Williams' shoulder must be close to 100%, Shields is playing much more physical, and Woodson always has. I think Hayward could play bump and run too. BTW if House comes back 100%, he looked very physical before he got hurt. However, I'm going to go way out on a limb and suggest Capers knows more about this than I do.

But back to the subject at hand. Fire Capers huh? OK, let's look at where the Packers are with a quarter of their season in the books. The byes started early this season so until all teams have played the same number of games, per game stats make the most sense (and the Boys and Bears don't play until tonight) so here they are:

Offense: 20th in points per game. 20th in yards gained per game, 15th in passing yards and 25th in rushing yards.

Defense: 10th in points per game surrendered. 10th in yards per game, 6th in passing yards and 17th in rushing yards per game surrendered.

Since they determine winners and losers by points, not yards I find those stats more important and revealing. Of course who they have played and the relative strengths and weaknesses of their opponents matter. But if an objective observer with no preconceptions were to look at these stats, I wonder which coordinator (or HC as OC) they would expect Packers fans to advocate firing. (Actually, I don't wonder.)

Also I think we should keep in mind the first quarter of their season is probably the most difficult and even with all the problems, the Packers have played well enough to be 3-1. It may make sense to jettison Capers at the end of the season, but IMO it makes no sense now.

 

[longtimefan]

We held down Chicago, and Seattle with their great Lynch...Niners just were on fire and really good..

Saints.... well it is hard to hold down a player like Brees and that offense..Think about it...They had at least 2 extra possessions with the refs noon calls or screw ups..Add in we lost that fumble when we prob get a Td..

so I think he is getting it done

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

It was a "break out game" so to speak for both offensive units. Brees had not put up that type of production yet and Arod and his WR's came out of their shells too. I just had flashbacks of 2011, but then again, this is the first gunslinger QB that we faced all season. 49ers are not know for a prolific pass attack, Bears are not either, seattle hell no....so what if brees lite us up, WE WON.

 

[pacmaniac]

Brees is a great QB, sure. But Capers is supposed to be one of the best defensive minds in the game. Surely he can figure out a way to "hold" Brees to 300 yards passing? Giving up 446 yards passing is not acceptable, I don't care who the QB is.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

^ you can have the absolute best laid out battle plan, but if your troops don't execute or your enemy changes his stratagy then you will be forced to improvise on the fly. It would seem like an easy thing to do for someone with as much defensive savy as capers has. I think he needs time to make his changes and cannot process the data that quickly, hence the reason we seem to look better after half time (most of the time). All due to half time adjustments made.

 

[jaybadger82]

I'm a big believer in jamming WRs at the line of scrimmage against offenses that run a lot of spread formation. Not sure why we weren't at least mixing that in more against New Orleans to give them a different look. Seattle gave us hell by being physical with our WRs at the line during the Monday night game, btw.

I'm not calling for Capers' head. Just unclear why we're not doing this more with our personnel...

 

[Alex]

Capers can't go out there and personally cover those wide open guys. Blame the guy 5 yards away from him for not doing his job

 

[Forget Favre]

I would say that Capers is getting it done.
Looking at past games, other teams including us held back the Taint's to: 32, 27, 24 and 27 points.
So it could have been worse.

 

[Forget Favre]

Capers can't go out there and personally cover those wide open guys. Blame the guy 5 yards away from him for not doing his job

^ This.

Why is everyone blaming the coach and not the players? If they can't produce it's not the coach's fault.
And why blame anyone? Packers did as well as the other two teams who held them back with less than 30 points.
The Taint's ain't an easy team to beat even without the bounty in place.
(Then again, it could still be in place. Who knows?)

 

[jaybadger82]

Besides us, the Saints have played Washington, Carolina and Kansas City. Those are some crap defenses.

I would say that Capers is getting it done.
Looking at past games, other teams including us held back the Taint's to: 32, 27, 24 and 27 points.
So it could have been worse.

Not an acceptable standard for me.

 

[rodell330]

we have to be more physical out on the corners point blank. This is a copy cat league and Seattle gave us alot of problems being physical with our group of wideouts who are the best in the league. Can't have guy's sitting in coverage waiting for the wr to get to them.

 

[Alex]

Seattle's dbacks are bigger than most teams' wrs..that helps

 

[13 Times Champs]

As some have said and which I said repeatedly during the chat yesterday Brees is a really good QB. He gets the ball out really fast and is accurate. He's a tough guy to slow down. Secondly, we are integrating some young players into the defense. As has been said we are 10th in Defense despite that. I see things even getting better for our defense as the season progresses.

 

[Forget Favre]

Besides us, the Saints have also played Washington, Carolina and Kansas City. Those are some crap defenses.

Crap defenses that beat them and one of them in the dome.

 

[PFanCan]

Ok, Capers cannot play on the field himself. His players do. Understood.

BUT, if the players consistantly (back through last season) fall short of being able to a) Get organized in time for the snap, and b) Understand the coverage scheme and execute it properly, then it is time to make some changes to the scheme.

And, that IS Caper's job.

What is the definition of insanity?

 

[weeds]

I'm not a fan of the 3-4 (such that it is here anyway) ... but, I really don't want to smash away a Capers personally. What I will say is there a re-occurring phrase uttered by the game announcers over the last 2 1/4 seasons and I'm damned sick of hearing it 3,4,5 times per game ... " .... wide open, over the middle..." -- when it's once, it's the offense earning their pay too. When it's twice ... it's happenstance ... when it's 3,4,5 times per game it's a flippin' problem that has never been addressed. That's when it falls on the coaching staff.