In defense of Sherman

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Mackie2001

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Those that bash or support Sherman really have nothing new to offer. But I have a few things I'd like to say. Let's say I'm trying to put the record straight.


Playoff Loses:

Philly - I still can't believe that people blame Sherman for that as the Packers made enough mistakes in that game to stop drives for any team to lose. The Packers weren't that good. They didn't have a very good defense and had to win their last four and six out of their last seven games to win the division and get into the playoffs at 10-6. Favre had the broken thumb and the Packers wouldn't have been in it at all if not for Arizona's TD with no time on the clock to beat the queens. Also, Denver rested their starter for the Packer's last game. What really won the game for Philly was McNabb who scrambled out of trouble and got first downs while rushing 11 times for 107 yards.

Atlanta - The Packers were just too beat up to compete against the Falcons and Vick. The week before against the Jets should have had everyone prepared for the loss to the Falcons.

Minn - The Packers still didn't have a good defense after all these years and were down by 17 points within the first 10 minutes. That game was a preview of the 2004 season, as the only legitmate wr was Driver with Fergie out and Walker going down with a shin injury. Green was hurt but plugged along for 80 yards and Davenport hurt his shoulder or ribs again in that game but came back in to score a touchdown, early in the fourth quarter. I believe that was his last appearance. He had five carries.

This is the team that Sherman inherited in 2000.
DB Chris Akins - a hot headed nobody but good on ST.
S Gary Berry - four games - Injury I believe
P Josh Bidwell - Average punter
LB David Bowens - one year player with the Packers - had 3.5 sacks.
WR Corey Bradford - played in two games - no catches- to Houston in the expansion draft.
S LeRoy Butler - injuried and retired after 9th game in 2001.
T Chad Clifton - Rookie starter about 4th game, I believe.
C/DT Rob Davis
WR Tyrone Davis - 27 games, 31 catches and 3 td's in last three seasons - 2000-2002.
LB Na'il Diggs - Rookie
T Earl Dotson - started two games. Back injury.
DT Santana Dotson - 2001 was last year.
WR Donald Driver - 37 catches 1999-2001. 1st 1000 yd season was 2002.
S Antuan Edwards - bum
QB Brett Favre
C Mike Flanagan
TE Bubba Franks - rookie
WR Antonio Freeman - Lost speed after big contract
DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - Rookie
LB Chris Gizzi - carried the flag onto the field after 9-11.
RB Herbert Goodman - four rushes for minus 3 yards in two years.
RB Ahman Green - First year with the Packers.
LB Bernardo Harris - Decent LB - released after the 2001 season.
QB Matt Hasselbeck - traded to seattle with Packers 1st pick for Seattle's 1st pick in 2001 - Jamal Reynolds.
FB William Henderson -
DE Vonnie Holliday - released or traded after knee injury in 2002.
DT Cletidus Hunt - miscast DE - not a tackle.
WR Charles Lee - with Packers 2001-2002. 12 receptions and one TD.
RB Dorsey Levens - 20 games 2000-2001. 121 carries 3 td's. Bad knee went to Philly as backup 2002.
K Ryan Longwell
DT Billy Lyon - Back up signed by queens in 2003
DT Russell Maryland - 2000 only year with Packers - retired
CB Tod McBride - back up
LB Eugene McCaslin - one game with Packers/League
S Scott McGarrahan - signed by Miami in 2001.
CB Mike McKenzie - route jumper, poor tackler, toasted many times.
C/G Raleigh McKenzie - 16 year vet - two with Packers - retired 2001
RB Basil Mitchell - one game in 2000.
S Jason Moore - three games in 2000.
LB Mike Morton - ordinary LB
RB De'Mond Parker - eight games 2000.
G Marco Rivera
DT Austin Robbins - two games in 2000.
CB Allen Rossum - 22 games in 2000-2001, signed by Atl in 2002.
WR Bill Schroeder - Stats do lie. No insticts and alligator arms. Signed by Detroit 2002.
S/CB Darren Sharper - talented, often nicked up, drive questionable, route jumber, toasted often.
RB Matt Snider - back up in 2000.
T/G Barry Stokes - back up 2000-2001
T/G Mark Tauscher - Rookie-started in place of Dotson.
DE John Thierry - 2000-2001 with Packer - 28 games 10 sacks.
T Ross Verba - moved to guard in 2000 - not resigned for 2001
G Mike Wahle - moved to guard in 2001
DT Steve Warren - 2000 back up DT, out 2001, 12 games 2002
LB Nate Wayne - Starter - released after 2002.
TE Ryan Wetnight - 10 games in 2000. Three catches 20 yards.
LB Brian Williams - Knee injury in 1999 ruined career. Four games in 2000.
LB K.D. Williams - Back up - some starts I think.
CB Tyrone Williams - release after 2002 - total of nine games 2003-2004.
C Frank Winters - retired after the 2002 season.
QB Danny Wuerffel - back up - played in one game with the Packers - rushed twice for minus two yards.

Not exactly a team that would strike fear into other team. The Packers did have Favre and the makings of a good offensive line, not much of a receiving corps and a good young unknown running back, Ahman Green.

The Packers were light good players on the dl, lb and the secondary. It's not a defense, or a team for that matter, that you'd write home about. It's amazing the Packers went 9-7. The Packers got no help in the 2001 draft but went 12-4 the next two years. Sherman must have been using smoke and mirrors.

As I see it, Sherman's good W/L record and the make up of the drafts kept the Packers from getting players of better quality to fit the Packers' needs, forcing Sherman to reach for players with upside. The glaring needs at LB, DB and on the DLine made Sherman re-sign Hunt, KGB, Diggs and sign Joe Johnson to big contracts later on. KGB received a contract offer from Philly and Diggs got one from Detroit which the Packers matched. Only KGB came close to being the player the Packers thought he'd be.
 

Krazygangsta

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You know what shermans problem was ... he use to upgrade 1 position really good and let another position not updated and thats what the weakness was ... if we had amazing WR's we had the worst corners ... if we had the best running game we probably had the worst running defense ... defense wise we were horrible ... TT is more of a balanced team GM ...
 

packedhouse01

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actually Coach Shermans biggest problem was his general manager Mike Sherman. He was just a lousy evaluator of talent. He actually wasn't too bad of a coach, but he didn't provide himself with enough quality players. The other thing that coach Sherman did was he became to faithful to his friends who were not always good coaches. I think he struggled as much as an evaluator of their talent as he did in evaluating player talent. He gave away contracts to players who didn't deserve the money and didn't ever play up to that contract. I could go on and on, but the poor guy is gone and we need to let it go. I'm just glad that he's gone and apparently by our present roster, so is Thompson.
 

warhawk

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I don't know what you see but I see a bunch of good, young, football players. Brett Favre in HIS PRIME, a young Bubba and Green, an "0" line to die for and Hunt and Holliday when they had real motors running.

What a lousy team.

One question.

Why is it that I see five or six HUGELY TALENTED young football players on the 2000 roster and zip on the '05 team?

You say because we won too much? Why is it I see other teams that are winning with a bunch of young guys I would love to see on our roster?

Mike Sherman was so fearful of losing his job he made decisions based purely on who he could obtain that would help them win right now. Forget the future or drafting the best player available regardless of position.

You could track every move he made in attempt to fill a position of need including draft picks or trading picks to find an answer. Most the time it was not the answer but it was obvious what he was doing.

The bottom line is the guy never won or even got to a SB while coaching one of the best QB's to ever play the game while in his prime. That is his legacy and probably why he will never be a HC in the NFL again.
 

refpacker

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Sherman is no Holgrem PERIOD....Worst mistake ever was letting Holgrem go...Does anyone remember how sorry the seahawks used to be?
 

Obi1

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I don't know what you see but I see a bunch of good, young, football players. Brett Favre in HIS PRIME, a young Bubba and Green, an "0" line to die for and Hunt and Holliday when they had real motors running.

What a lousy team.

One question.

Why is it that I see five or six HUGELY TALENTED young football players on the 2000 roster and zip on the '05 team?

You say because we won too much? Why is it I see other teams that are winning with a bunch of young guys I would love to see on our roster?

Mike Sherman was so fearful of losing his job he made decisions based purely on who he could obtain that would help them win right now. Forget the future or drafting the best player available regardless of position.

You could track every move he made in attempt to fill a position of need including draft picks or trading picks to find an answer. Most the time it was not the answer but it was obvious what he was doing.

The bottom line is the guy never won or even got to a SB while coaching one of the best QB's to ever play the game while in his prime. That is his legacy and probably why he will never be a HC in the NFL again.

Some of your points are more answers to Sherman the GM and not Sherman the Coach.
 

Krazygangsta

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Love what you said ref ''The bottom line is the guy never won or even got to a SB while coaching one of the best QB's to ever play the game while in his prime. That is his legacy and probably why he will never be a HC in the NFL again.''
 

refpacker

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Love what you said ref ''The bottom line is the guy never won or even got to a SB while coaching one of the best QB's to ever play the game while in his prime. That is his legacy and probably why he will never be a HC in the NFL again.''

Totally agree.....Just look at that potent Texans offense...I remember the days when we would over-use the screen...Thank goodness those days are over..I also liked the 4th and 26 conversion...I know he wasnt the defensive coordinator, but if im a head coach I never would have let that defense be run....u gotta send some pressure...
 

Buckeyepackfan

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YeSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

Another thread re-hashing old news that EVERYONE JUST LOVES TO TALK ABOUT!!!!!!!

Let's all just live in the past because then we can blame Mike Sherman for everthing that goes wrong in our worlds!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 

refpacker

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YeSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

Another thread re-hashing old news that EVERYONE JUST LOVES TO TALK ABOUT!!!!!!!

Let's all just live in the past because then we can blame Mike Sherman for everthing that goes wrong in our worlds!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Learn from history or else u will be doomed to repeat it!!!!
 

PackerLegend

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Sherman blows and I will never ever have 1 good thing to say about him as a coach or GM.
 

porky88

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The problem with Sherman is he inherited guys who turned out well that were drafted by Ron Wolf. Sherman only really hit on 4 draft picks and only 3 are helping the Packers now.
 

Mackie2001

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The problem with Sherman is he inherited guys who turned out well that were drafted by Ron Wolf. Sherman only really hit on 4 draft picks and only 3 are helping the Packers now.
2002
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 20 - Javon Walker - Hit
3 - 92 - Marques Anderson -
4 - 135 - Najeh Davenport - Hit
5 - 156 - Aaron Kampman - Hit
5 - 164 - Craig Nall - Hit
6 - 200 - Mike Houghton -

Anderson played in the NFL for four years

2003
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 29 - Nick Barnett - Hit
3 - 79 - Kenny Peterson -
5 - 147 - James Lee -
5 - 166 - Hunter Hillenmeyer - Hit
6 - 212 - Brennan Curtin -
7 - 245 - Chris Johnson -
7 - 253 - DeAndrew Rubin -
7 - 256 - Carl Ford -
7 - 257 - Steve Josue -

Peterson was an ok pick considering at one time he was considered a 1st rounder. Curtin, Johnson and Josue had potential...projects

2004
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 25 - Ahmad Carroll -
3 - 70 - Joey Thomas -
3 - 72 - Donnell Washington -
3 - 87 - B.J. Sander -
6 - 179 - Corey Williams - Hit
7 - 251 - Scott Wells - Hit

Carroll had great potential, just couldn't learn the system. Thomas and Washington also had a lot of potential. All in all, Sheman drafted pretty well. Like I said, because of where the Packers finished and the nature of the draft, Sheman drafted projects with upside. Sherman would target certain players, trade down to get more picks, then use the acquired picks to trade up. He did this to make sure he got what he wanted.

What a lot seems to forget is how well he did with the teams he had. But then, those are the one that didn't like his bowling shirts and physique.
 

refpacker

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porky88 said:
The problem with Sherman is he inherited guys who turned out well that were drafted by Ron Wolf. Sherman only really hit on 4 draft picks and only 3 are helping the Packers now.
2002
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 20 - Javon Walker - Hit
3 - 92 - Marques Anderson -
4 - 135 - Najeh Davenport - Hit
5 - 156 - Aaron Kampman - Hit
5 - 164 - Craig Nall - Hit
6 - 200 - Mike Houghton -

Anderson played in the NFL for four years

2003
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 29 - Nick Barnett - Hit
3 - 79 - Kenny Peterson -
5 - 147 - James Lee -
5 - 166 - Hunter Hillenmeyer - Hit
6 - 212 - Brennan Curtin -
7 - 245 - Chris Johnson -
7 - 253 - DeAndrew Rubin -
7 - 256 - Carl Ford -
7 - 257 - Steve Josue -

Peterson was an ok pick considering at one time he was considered a 1st rounder. Curtin, Johnson and Josue had potential...projects

2004
Rd Sel# Player
1 - 25 - Ahmad Carroll -
3 - 70 - Joey Thomas -
3 - 72 - Donnell Washington -
3 - 87 - B.J. Sander -
6 - 179 - Corey Williams - Hit
7 - 251 - Scott Wells - Hit

Carroll had great potential, just couldn't learn the system. Thomas and Washington also had a lot of potential. All in all, Sheman drafted pretty well. Like I said, because of where the Packers finished and the nature of the draft, Sheman drafted projects with upside. Sherman would target certain players, trade down to get more picks, then use the acquired picks to trade up. He did this to make sure he got what he wanted.

What a lot seems to forget is how well he did with the teams he had. But then, those are the one that didn't like his bowling shirts and physique.

How is craig nall and davenport hits??? neigther are a starter in the NFL? A hit must at least be a starter.....Look at that wonderful hit to miss ratio!!!!!!!!!!! And ur telling me that we should stay the course and stock pile draft picks instead or going after playmakers.....The only playmaker out of the whole bunch drafted was Walker Period.........Barnett is ok but a game changer like Walker was...Hawk will end up being better than barnett....
 

longtimefan

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and where is Hillenmeyer now?? Sherman tried to put him on the practice squad, that should be worth 2 misses..

LOL
 

refpacker

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and where is Hillenmeyer now?? Sherman tried to put him on the practice squad, that should be worth 2 misses..

LOL

LOL He is helping us prove our point........Carroll got burned on every play thats why we cut his butt.....Potential my left toe!!!!!
 

Mackie2001

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Nall is a good back qb, maybe a starter someday. He's a good pick at that point. He made the roster.

Davenport is about the scariest back I've seen since Campbell. Injuries have screwed him out of being a premier starter and a very rich man.
 

Mackie2001

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Carroll can do it. He has. Penalties and I'd guess play awareness weren't his strong suits.
 

Mackie2001

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and where is Hillenmeyer now?? Sherman tried to put him on the practice squad, that should be worth 2 misses..

LOL

Hillenmeyer was a project. The Bears had done their homework.
 

refpacker

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Nall is a good back qb, maybe a starter someday. He's a good pick at that point. He made the roster.

Davenport is about the scariest back I've seen since Campbell. Injuries have screwed him out of being a premier starter and a very rich man.


:rotflmao: Campbell get real he isnt even close to campbell.... U must be thinkin of Brandon Jacobs.....HAHAHAHAHAHA Campbell good one....

As for Nall, I still dont get how , "Maybe a starter" is a hit....The two terms dont go together.......Look at all the misses....How can anyone support this???? Its obsurd!!!!!!!!
 

refpacker

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longtimefan said:
and where is Hillenmeyer now?? Sherman tried to put him on the practice squad, that should be worth 2 misses..

LOL

Hillenmeyer was a project. The Bears and done their homework.

A project like Carroll????? Homework?? They flunked draftin 101!!!!

Walker was never a project, Bush was never a project, VY was never a project.......Now those are HITS!!
 

Mackie2001

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Walker was indeed a project. He didn't start coming on until half way through his second season. If I remember correctly, his first love was baseball but couldn't make it in the minors.

Young is a project but has great potential and instincts. He's far from being a finished product. Bush, well, all I can say about him is that he is a running back but he seems destined to be the greatest all purpose back to ever play. That makes him a project. Why do you pick the 2nd and 3rd players picked in the 2005 draft and compare them to Carroll. The Packers needed a db and they drafted one with upside.

I should remind you that there are 53 players on a roster. They're all need to contribute. There a few players on a roster in todays games that aren't "starters" when you consider punt return, kick off return, the punt team, the kick off team and Pat and FG team. The ones that don't contribute much, on the whole, are the back up qbs.
 

Mackie2001

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You must be talking about Sander. If you drafted a punter after having traded up after you traded down to trade two picks for him, including a third round pick, you'd do the same thing to. Sheman must have thought he had something. Sander was the Ray Guy Award winner during his junior year. But the "2nd punter" is the exception to the rule.
 
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