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In defense of Capers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TJV, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I believe a lot of Packers fans and posters here would like to see Dom Capers fired this off season.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
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  2. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Personally, we demanded as fans an improvement in the defence, and I think we got one in the second half of the season certainly. I`d give him a pass for next season at least. JMHO
     
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  3. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    If you can guarantee the D will be as good next year as it was the second half of last season of course id take him back. If the D plays that well all year we'll have homefield throughout next year.
     
  4. MadCat

    MadCat Cheesehead

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    His resume is impressive, and our defense showed a noticeable and promising improvement over the course of the season, but he really should be called out for the frequent lack of defensive pressure on 3rd and 4th down, and moreso in general when we are ahead in games, a classic example of which we saw on Sunday. (Refer also to the must-win game against the Falcons. Holding them to 7 in the first half, then giving up 30 in the second half, 20 of those points coming in the 4th quarter.) That's the only problem I have with his coaching, but it's a fairly big problem if it continues.
     
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  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    McCarthy and Slocum go back 25 years to their time as assistant coaches at Pitt. It's the only thing that can account for Slocum not being a couple of years in the rear view mirror already.

    I reached the end of my personal rope with Capers this past season, though I'd be quite surprised if he's not retained.

    If the Packers are of a mind to make a move, they need to hurry since the non-playoff teams already have a head start in hiring. Jim Schwartz is still available. While the idea of bringing in Schwartz might elicit some :eek:'s from the faithful, there are some compelling arguments in his favor.

    Do we know if Capers is still under contract? That might have an influence on the decision. The Packers would probably want to promote from within. Is there a likely candidate? I've not heard of any team asking to interview any of the defensive assistants which might indicate none are ready for prime time.
     
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I now recall when I threw in the towel on Capers. It was the 7 consecutive quarters against Detroit and Chicago where the defense did not force a punt.

    The next 11 possessions against Ponder, sans Peterson, resulted in 7 punts, 3 turnovers and an end-of-half. I considered rethinking my position but came to my senses and concluded that feasting on carrion should not be pursusive given the body of work from the 2011 season forward.
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    While on other team's boards all you hear is the Packers defense sucks, which is completely not true. Those take aways are huge, and we play a harder schedule than most as we win more than most setting us up for a little tougher schedule
     
  8. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    The Packers prize organizational stability and it is one of the bedrock strengths of the franchise so don't expect an overreaction to the championship game loss. Despite the calls for "heads to roll" there won't be any reactive firings or scapegoatings on the coaching staff.

    I think Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy will examine every facet of the team as they do every year and identify the strengths and weaknesses and move on from there. While there is certainly room for criticism and improvement with the assistants I think TT and MM will conclude that it's the players who have to make it work. Players have to get better and they have to get some more and better players and work them within their systems.

    The issue, for me, about the defense is how much longer should the Packers stay with the 3-4 scheme. One more year of lacking the linebackers and linemen to make it dominant and they should go back to 4-3 and probably have a better chance of picking up players who fit that better in the NFL.

    As long as they play 3-4 in Green Bay Capers stays.
     
  9. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Those numbers are pretty impressive but that´s mostly because of the Packers having a great defense in 2009 and 2010. Since the start of the 2011 season the team is ranked 7th in takeaways (110), 15th in points allowed (23.0), 26th in total yards allowed (366.7), 25th in passing yards allowed (247.9) and 22nd in rushing yards allowed (118.8).

    With that being said the defense improved significantly in the second half of the season and because of it I´m fine with holding on to Capers.
     
  10. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I've always felt he could coach a defense, but he needs the players to do it. I think for a while last year they thought they had enough young guys they could just plug and play and they learned a hard lesson that it doesn't work that way. The defense was good for 2 plays then blow it on 3rd down with some miscommunication. It got old fast watching DB's look at each other like, "what?, you? me? that was my guy?" after every big play.

    I don't think we'll see that from them on a regular basis anymore regardless of who's on the field, and with the right guys, they are an attacking defense that can compliment our offense well with turnovers.
     
  11. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    So Capers has coached a defense that lead the Packers to a Super Bowl, had poor seasons in between and then had an average year this year (Packers were 18th in weighted DVOA from Football Outsiders). This past season Football Outsiders ranked the Packers pass defense 11th best and the rush defense 24th. I think pretty much everyone would agree that Capers doesn't really have much to work with in the rush defense department until Thompson gives him some inside linebackers to work with (bear in mind that the Packers also had their backup NT starting for the entire year).

    It's apparent that the defense is improving from where it was and it would seem a poor time to fire a defensive coach and install a new defense when the current defense is finally turning things around. I mean, last offseason everyone was clamoring for the 4-3 "under" (i.e., "flavor of the month") defense. Packers used it in the first couple games and it was so effective that they took it out of the playbook entirely after what, three games?
     
  12. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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  14. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    I really don't understand how this guy still has a job. I do not understand how anybody can look at how bad the defences had been and think he should still have a job its just pathetic like this guy says he never should have been hired by the Packers and he shouldn't be in the NFL anymore.
     
  15. KyraReppe5

    KyraReppe5 "We're going to relentlessly chase perfection."

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    At this point in time we have (by no means) the resources to run a 4-3 defense. That will take a few years (at least) to build. I think the improvements our defense made is clear. I can't forsee us having the best defense in the league anytime soon, but if the offense plays up to their potential, our defense can continue to play as they did the second half of the season and we can get away with some big wins. Will we secure home-field advantage throughout playoffs with just that? Highly unlikely, as you take a look at our opponents next year and we have undoubtedly one of the hardest schedule's in the NFL. Lets make playoff's before we start worrying about home-field. Oh yeah, and lets improve our intensity on the road!
     
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  16. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Those stats are surprising. Not a Capers fan. I see other coaches doing more with less talent. Look at Dallas. If we merged defenses, there would be 9 or 10 Packers starting and only one or 2 cowboys. Yet their defense ranked higher than ours.
     
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  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers defense was great the first two seasons with Capers being the defensive coordinator and contributied in a huge way to winning the Super Bowl in 2010.

    Injuries played an important role in the defense´s demise from 2011-13 and it wasn´t his fault Thompson didn´t provide any upgrades at ILB for the start of the 2014 season. The defense did improve significantly in the second half of the season (IMO saving Capers from being fired) and I´m fine with giving him another year to run the defense, especially with McCarthy hopefully having an influence on the unit as well.
     
  18. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    Given the time of year, might be fun to compare position-by-position, just for discussion. I don't know enough about their D, but I assume the 1 or 2 would be ILBs, meaning that the DL, other LBs and all DBs would be Packers. I know a lot has been made of the we-fense, but if the Packer talent is truly that much better, it'd be interesting.
     
  19. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  20. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    There defense was 15th in points allowed and 19th in total yards. We were 13th and 15th in those categories...

    Not sure where you're seeing their defense was better.
     
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  21. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I agree he should stick around.

    Two seasons in a row Capers has had an awful position group to handle with the safeties two years ago and the ILBs last season. Safety became a strength in one season. If ILB can just become average, the defense will be much better.
     
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  22. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    It's not like the defense is bad in it's current state. It was 13th in total points and that's after a poor start to make up for in the rankings.

    Have to be careful if Capers were let go because there is no guarantee the defense would be better. It could be a lot worse.

    The Bears for example, got rid of their head coach and GM after being 10-6 and have since become much worse.
     
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  23. Forderick

    Forderick Cheesehead

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    Could it have really gotten any worse than the last few years? Any improvement means Capers is capable of running a defence to some people.

    At this point, if he can't get fired after a historically bad defence and that horrendous game against the 49ers, he will never be fired. Capers should have been fired 2-3 years ago. but for whatever reason he wasn't.

    Just remember even a broken clock is right twice a day. but in green bay thats good enough to keep your job.

    I can get on board with giving Capers another year but even if the Defence gets worse, how can you justify firing a guy after he had one of the worst defence of all time and he kept his job, at this point what will it take for Capers to be fired? He is here to stay no matter how good or bad the D plays.
     
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  24. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I have the feeling that Montgomery is going to be groomed as Capers' successor. That would make it unadvisable to fire Capers now. Give Montgomery at least a season as Capers' right-hand man. If the defense improves under Capers again next year, great. If not, then let him go and give it to Montgomery who will have a year's experience with this defense.

    Seems a pretty smart move on MM's part to me.
     
  25. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I really think people should stop judging a defense's performance by yards allowed. While the 2011 defense yielded a ton of yards (mostly because opponents took a high risk approach trying to keep on pace with our high powered offense) the unit finished 19th in points allowed. While that isn't great by any means it's far away from being one of the worst of all time.

    Only once, after an inexplicably drop off in performance after Rodgers got hurt in 2013, did one of Capers' defenses finished outside of the top 20 in points allowed.

    Once again, I'm not suggesting the Packers have played great defense with Capers being the coordinator after winning the Super Bowl in 2010 but they've mostly been good enough to give our offense a chance to win.
     

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