Improving the Defense for 2017....How and Who?

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think its pretty obvious to most of us, that our current defense is one that needs improvement in order to take the Packers to that next level. I have read a range of of what needs to be done to accomplish this scattered throughout various threads.

So moving forward, what do you see happening to improve the defense (besides only saying "Fire Capers and TT")?

Players to keep, players to let go, players to acquire, draft picks to go after, coaching changes, etc.?

 

[RepStar15]

Keep: Hyde, Nick Perry
Let walk: Hopefully Peppers retires, let Datone Jones go, Sam Shields and either trade or restructure Clay Matthews contract
Draft: Sidney Jones, **** Tabor, Ryan Anderson, or Solomon Thomas
Sign- AJ Bouye, Morris Claiborne or Trumaine Johnson

 

[rodell330]

First thing is Gunter should be cut. He wasn't a draft pick, so it's not like your throwing away a draft pick in his third season. There's really no point in keeping him around now...they've gotten a look at him for nearly an entire season...he's not the answer at corner. No need to waste a practice squad spot on him either. He can't play in this league running a 4.7. Hawkins, Dorleant, Herb W should be kept on the practice squad. Those are guys who can run and can help out on special teams if they need to be activated.

Clay Matthews would be asked to restructure. He's definitely not worth 16 million a season. Giving him 10-11 is still very generous but that would be my offer. He's a one trick poney who's not very good against the run. He's become a liability against running teams because he's not strong enough against good tackles to get off blocks, and he typically over runs the play. I'm really starting to wonder if this guy really was on PEDS and his play suffered once he got off??

Julius Peppers can still play...but I'd offer him the veteran minimum unless another team like New England or Seattle is willing to pay him more to have a REAL shot at a ring. It would be nice to be able to keep him tho because he's a great locker room guy who can help the youngsters and come in on passing downs only.

Nick Perry is interesting because he's finally shown that he can get you double digit sacks. He's also very good against the run. He's just always guaranteed to miss time because you know he's going to get hurt at some point and be out. I'd give him 8 mil per year for 4 yrs to stay in Green Bay. But I'm willing to bet another teams who's desperate for pass rushers will throw more money at him and he will jet.

I'd release Guion and move Daniels to NT. He's not a pass rusher so there's no need to have him as a DE. Let him collapse the pocket and play the run like he already does. I'd move Lowry to that D -end spot. I've like what I've seen on his little it of snaps. He should be playing more.

Definitely drafting a corner in the first rd. A corner!! Not a safety or a tweaner...a guy who can open his hips and turn and run and was a college corner! The experiments have to stop. Randall is only good in zone...but if he is asked to play man to man he's toast. He's always turned around, and he's soft in coverage. He is not the #1 corner.

Rollins will be the fifth corner. I honestly can't remember one good play the guy made all year. He's just as bad in man as Randall and he's another guy who can't seem to run with anyone. If he wasn't a second rd pick he'd be cut with Gunter. His lack of awareness when locating the deep ball is hard to watch. Teams completed a high percentage of pass attempts on this guy and he was never able to recover

Micah Hyde is definitely the best of the bunch. Which isn't saying much ...but he can play every spot in the secondary and he's an above average return guy ..which adds value to his stock. If he was a 4.4 guy he'd be really good because he does have good instincts and he locates the ball pretty well. But he's another guy who just seems to always be in chase mode.

Cut Joe Thomas and Groom Burnett to play his role. I think Burnett plays way better the closer to the line of scrimmage he is. Then you can bring in Brice. Thomas isn't any good against the run anyways and he's only average in coverage. He's a guy who can be replaced.


Sign a corner. DRC or Revis will probably be available. If either guy is willing to make what Sam Shields made bring him in. I like DRC because he's fast and won't get beat deep. He can catch the ball as well.

I'd draft another pass rusher in the second. A guy who can play the run as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Keep: Hyde, Nick Perry
Let walk: Hopefully Peppers retires, let Datone Jones go, Sam Shields and either trade or restructure Clay Matthews contract
Draft: Sidney Jones, **** Tabor, Ryan Anderson, or Solomon Thomas
Sign- AJ Bouye, Morris Claiborne or Trumaine Johnson

Bouye is an interesting prospect for sure. But my gut says that if TT is still GM when Free Agents can be signed AND the Texans don't resign him, there will be too much competition for his services for TT to be in the mix.

 

[Pkrjones]

Improving the salary cap:
- Cut/retire Sam Shields (Cap savings $9Mil)
- Cut/trade (for a 3rd or 4th?) CM3 (Cap savings $11.1Mil)
- Cut James Starks (cap savings $3Mil)

Do NOT re-sign: Peppers or D. Jones

Re-sign:
- Perry to 3 yr/$16Mil deal (max.) or let him walk.
- Micah Hyde to 3 yr./$13Mil deal

Move Randall to Safety (his best natural position).
Move Burnett to coverage ILB/in the box S - Run support and TE coverage! Needs to add 10-15 lbs.

FA signings (and now for something completely different):
- OLB who can rush.
- CB with speed.

Draft (in order of importance):
CB, OLB, TE, OC/OG, OLB, DE (who can rush passer), RB

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

First thing is Gunter should be cut. He wasn't a draft pick, so it's not like your throwing away a draft pick in his third season. There's really no point in keeping him around now...they've gotten a look at him for nearly an entire season...he's not the answer at corner. No need to waste a practice squad spot on him either. He can't play in this league running a 4.7. Hawkins, Dorleant, Herb W should be kept on the practice squad. Those are guys who can run and can help out on special teams if they need to be activated.

Clay Matthews would be asked to restructure. He's definitely not worth 16 million a season. Giving him 10-11 is still very generous but that would be my offer. He's a one trick poney who's not very good against the run. He's become a liability against running teams because he's not strong enough against good tackles to get off blocks, and he typically over runs the play. I'm really starting to wonder if this guy really was on PEDS and his play suffered once he got off??

Julius Peppers can still play...but I'd offer him the veteran minimum unless another team like New England or Seattle is willing to pay him more to have a REAL shot at a ring. It would be nice to be able to keep him tho because he's a great locker room guy who can help from the youngsters and come in on passing downs only.

Nick Perry is interesting because he's finally shown that he can get you double digit sacks. He's also very good against the run. He's just always guaranteed to miss time because you know he's going to get hurt at some point and be out. I'd give him 8 mil per year for 4 yrs to stay in Green Bay. But I'm willing to bet another teams who's desperate for pass rushers will throw more money at him and he will jet.

I'd release Guion and move Daniels to NT. He's not a pass rusher so there's no need to have him as a DE. Let him collapse the pocket and play the run like he already does. I'd move Lowrybtonthat D -end spot. I've like what I've seen on his little it of snaps. He should be playing more.

Definitely drafting a corner in the first rd. A corner!! Not a safety or a tweaner...a guy who can open his hips and turn and run and was a college corner! The experiments have to stop. Randall is only good in zone...but if he is asked to play man to man he's toast. He's always turned around, and he's soft in coverage. He is not the #1 corner.

Rollins will be the fifth corner. I honestly can't remember one good play the guy made all year. He's just as bad in man as Randall and he's another guy who can't seem to run with anyone. If he wasn't a second rd pick he'd be cut with Gunter. His lack of awareness when locating the deep ball is hard to watch. Teams completed a high percentage of pass attempts on this guy and he was never able to recover

Micah Hyde is definitely the best of the bunch. Which isn't saying much ...but he can play every spot in the secondary and he's an above average return guy ..which adds value to his stock. If he was a 4.4 guy he'd be really good because he does have good instincts and he locates the ball pretty well. But he's another guy who just seems to always be in chase mode.

Cut Joe Thomas and Groom Burnett to play his role. I think Burnett plays way better the closer to the line of scrimmage he is. Then you can bring in Brice. Thomas isn't any good against the run anyways and he's only average in coverage. He's a guy who can be replaced.


Sign a corner. DRC or Revis will probably be available. If either guy is willing to make what Sam Shields made bring him in. I like DRC because he's fast and won't get beat deep. He can catch the ball as well.

I'd draft another pass rusher in the second. A guy who can play the run as well.

Good stuff. I'm on the fence with Gunter. I agree there is no way he is starting caliber, but would let him compete for depth. The trick there is....let him compete against quality guys, more than what we have seen in GB for too long. He probably doesn't make the team if the Packers have a competitive group in 2017.

I feel somewhat the same with Guion. While not a quality starter, he can add depth.

I totally agree with your point on "stop with the experiments" of trying to convert a guy into something he isn't. Maybe at the PS level, but not with high round picks. Sure its a homerun if you hit it, but....Randall....enough said.

Joe Thomas. Once again the Packers are trying to get ILB play from a guy who probably wouldn't be a backup on another team.

I would rather take your route of finding a #1 CB via the FA market. Use the #1 on the best OLB available in the draft. There is no way I feel comfortable with our secondary if we begin the 2017 season with the current group and a #30 pick expected to be the #1. Hope to find a developmental CB later in the draft, which also adds the depth.

If Capers isn't fired, then TT and MM need to figure out a way to shake up the ranks with the defensive coaching staff. Yes, this defense may be under talented due to TT's draft and develop mode, but something is telling me these guys aren't prepared and I put that on the coaches.

 

[excalibur]

If the Jets cut Revis try and sign him to play Safety, and provide the needed veteran presence in the deep patrol.

Giants don't retain JPP, try and sign him. Not just lip service, but seriously try and sign him.

The Giants spent a fortune on FA defensive players and it worked, and if not for all their dropped passes in the Packers playoff game they may have won that game. But they would not have gotten there to begin with had they not rebuilt their defense in one season through FA.

UDFA isn't providing the quality the team needs.

 

[RRyder]

God we actually have a cut Gunter crowd. "Oh no he isn't a starter so he needs to be cut"

I truly wished I was suprised

 

[Pkrjones]

God we actually have a cut Gunter crowd. "Oh no he isn't a starter so he needs to be cut"

I'm not advocating cutting him, but there's only so much "growth" that can be expected from a bigger (6'1"-200lb) CB who has trouble mirroring in man coverage (Caper's desired CB D) and runs a 4.7 40. Once beaten very little chance at recovery.

 

[PackerFanLV]

First thing is Gunter should be cut.

Bro you herd what deon sanders said "Dez Wounded him and julio killed him" I was like hes 100 percent correct. lol

 

[PackerFanLV]

Move Randall to Safety

That would be a disaster randall cant tackle to save his life if a rb ever reach second level its a TD.

 

[Pkrjones]

That would be a disaster randall cant tackle to save his life if a rb ever reach second level its a TD.

Which position does he stand a better chance of aiding the Packer's D? I'd rather he be at the back end with the play in front of him than at CB allowing the play to get behind him. Not expecting him to be a 10 tackle/game guy.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Which position does he stand a better chance of aiding the Packer's D? I'd rather he be at the back end with the play in front of him than at CB allowing the play to get behind him. Not expecting him to be a 10 tackle/game guy.

Honestly hes for sure not beating out Burnett, Hes not beating out HaHa hes not beating out Micha Hyde hes not beating out kentrell brice and I think the rookie marwin evans would give him a run for his money at saftey. Randall best bet is to compete for a job at corner and if he cant hold a spot then the packers need to do away with him.

 

[easyk83]

Good stuff. I'm on the fence with Gunter. I agree there is no way he is starting caliber, but would let him compete for depth. The trick there is....let him compete against quality guys, more than what we have seen in GB for too long. He probably doesn't make the team if the Packers have a competitive group in 2017.

Agreed, but should your depth be good backups or should it be made of guys who could eventually develop into starters.

I totally agree with your point on "stop with the experiments" of trying to convert a guy into something he isn't. Maybe at the PS level, but not with high round picks. Sure its a homerun if you hit it, but....Randall....enough said.

The trouble with this approach is that A) you don't always have ready made players at positions of need and B) a position switch sometimes undermines a players value and might allow a talented player to fall. Picking at the bottom portion of the first round either you get solid players or high upside guys with a significant fault. Jones wasn't drafted to be an OLB and Nick Perry played Elephant End at USC, the same position as Clay Matthews... at the same school. With Randall I'd say wait and see, let's see if he bounces back from his second year before we proclaim him a wasted pick... like fans were claiming about Rodgers he injured his hammy during the 07 campaign or about Nick Collins after he failed to become an impact player by the time his third year finished, or Davante Adams after his sophomore year.

I would rather take your route of finding a #1 CB via the FA market. Use the #1 on the best OLB available in the draft. There is no way I feel comfortable with our secondary if we begin the 2017 season with the current group and a #30 pick expected to be the #1. Hope to find a developmental CB later in the draft, which also adds the depth.

There aren't any number 1 CBs in the FA market, there are some journeyman guys who could turn into a decent number 3 or maybe even a 2 with a grossly inflated price tag.

If Capers isn't fired, then TT and MM need to figure out a way to shake up the ranks with the defensive coaching staff. Yes, this defense may be under talented due to TT's draft and develop mode, but something is telling me these guys aren't prepared and I put that on the coaches.

Is it the drafting or the developing that's at fault here?

 

[easyk83]

God we actually have a cut Gunter crowd. "Oh no he isn't a starter so he needs to be cut"

I truly wished I was suprised

This is an internet board, he who jumps to the most conclusions wins... something.

 

[easyk83]

The positives, I think we do have some solid to good young players that we can build around. Mike Daniels is a stud and in his prime, Kenny Clark and Lowry both seem to have a similar high motor mindset and both are plus athletes at the positions they play. I think they both impress next year. Jake Ryan took a big jump this year and I think he turns into a quality starter next season, he just needs to improve on his blitzes. Martinez i also think could be a good one but he needs seasoning. At safety we're good with Dix and Burnett. What we need is help at CB and maybe OLB.

I would sign Datone Jones up at a reduced rate for a short term contract. I think he has more game than he's showed so far at the position. Restructure Matthews and press him to make some adjustments. With Perry I'm not sure if you trust him with anything more than a short term contract, never put your faith in a chronically injured player who only shows up for his contract year. Peppers is gone and that leaves Fackrell who looks like he could become a player but needs about 10 pounds of muscle.

At corner it's pretty ugly. Randall and Rollins were chronically injured and I think that Rollins is more of a slot guy. Nonetheless bring in vet and draft a CB in the first two rounds and then again in the mid rounds. Let's see an open competition for the the top two CB spots and hope Gunter doesn't win.

 

[excalibur]

Don't see why Datone Jones should be brought back, unless he pays us to play him..

 

[Carl]

First thing is Gunter should be cut. He wasn't a draft pick, so it's not like your throwing away a draft pick in his third season. There's really no point in keeping him around now...they've gotten a look at him for nearly an entire season...he's not the answer at corner. No need to waste a practice squad spot on him either. He can't play in this league running a 4.7. Hawkins, Dorleant, Herb W should be kept on the practice squad. Those are guys who can run and can help out on special teams if they need to be activated.

Clay Matthews would be asked to restructure. He's definitely not worth 16 million a season. Giving him 10-11 is still very generous but that would be my offer. He's a one trick poney who's not very good against the run. He's become a liability against running teams because he's not strong enough against good tackles to get off blocks, and he typically over runs the play. I'm really starting to wonder if this guy really was on PEDS and his play suffered once he got off??

Julius Peppers can still play...but I'd offer him the veteran minimum unless another team like New England or Seattle is willing to pay him more to have a REAL shot at a ring. It would be nice to be able to keep him tho because he's a great locker room guy who can help the youngsters and come in on passing downs only.

Nick Perry is interesting because he's finally shown that he can get you double digit sacks. He's also very good against the run. He's just always guaranteed to miss time because you know he's going to get hurt at some point and be out. I'd give him 8 mil per year for 4 yrs to stay in Green Bay. But I'm willing to bet another teams who's desperate for pass rushers will throw more money at him and he will jet.

I'd release Guion and move Daniels to NT. He's not a pass rusher so there's no need to have him as a DE. Let him collapse the pocket and play the run like he already does. I'd move Lowry to that D -end spot. I've like what I've seen on his little it of snaps. He should be playing more.

Definitely drafting a corner in the first rd. A corner!! Not a safety or a tweaner...a guy who can open his hips and turn and run and was a college corner! The experiments have to stop. Randall is only good in zone...but if he is asked to play man to man he's toast. He's always turned around, and he's soft in coverage. He is not the #1 corner.

Rollins will be the fifth corner. I honestly can't remember one good play the guy made all year. He's just as bad in man as Randall and he's another guy who can't seem to run with anyone. If he wasn't a second rd pick he'd be cut with Gunter. His lack of awareness when locating the deep ball is hard to watch. Teams completed a high percentage of pass attempts on this guy and he was never able to recover

Micah Hyde is definitely the best of the bunch. Which isn't saying much ...but he can play every spot in the secondary and he's an above average return guy ..which adds value to his stock. If he was a 4.4 guy he'd be really good because he does have good instincts and he locates the ball pretty well. But he's another guy who just seems to always be in chase mode.

Cut Joe Thomas and Groom Burnett to play his role. I think Burnett plays way better the closer to the line of scrimmage he is. Then you can bring in Brice. Thomas isn't any good against the run anyways and he's only average in coverage. He's a guy who can be replaced.


Sign a corner. DRC or Revis will probably be available. If either guy is willing to make what Sam Shields made bring him in. I like DRC because he's fast and won't get beat deep. He can catch the ball as well.

I'd draft another pass rusher in the second. A guy who can play the run as well.

Gunter was fine as long as he wasn't one on one with top receivers, which is similar to most corners in the league.

He's not a number one corner, but would be fine as a nickel or dime guy.

 

[Dantés]

I think you start by turning over some of the defensive staff, as development has been a problem on that side. A lot of the best candidates are picked over by this time. Rex Ryan is the big name out there. After him, there's his disciple Mike Pettine. I'm not necessarily opposed to either, but I have a hard time seeing GB bring Ryan in. Perhaps Pettine. Some other interesting names:

John Butler, DB's, Houston
Cory Undlin, DB's, Philadelphia
Tim Walton, Secondary, New York (Giants)
Patrick Graham, Linebackers, New York (Giants)
Jerry Gray, DB's, Minnesota

The in house candidate is Winston Moss. Honestly, I'm ok with that move. The player development at LB has been better than the rest of the defense in my opinion. Perry has become a very capable pass rusher, Matthews is fading but went from raw prospect to DPOY material under Moss, Peppers saw a late career renessaince, and the team has gotten more out of guys like Ryan and Martinez than I expected they would. If nothing else, at least give him a shot with the whole defense and see what he can accomplish. What are you out of?

 

[Dantés]

Mike Pettine is probably my favorite candidate still out there. I feel like he brings a lot of Ryan's coaching acumen without the extra baggage.

 

[picopack]

First things first...Fire Dom Capers and his defensive staff.

We have to bring Hyde back since he and our Safeties where the only ones we could count on this season. Someone needs to find a time machine and make sure we sign Casey Hayward since loosing him ended up being huge. Rollins and Gunter can stay and see if they learned from the beat down they took this past season but we will need to really invest in corners.

I would be surprised if Clay didn't have his contract restructured and I am pretty sure we wont have Starks on the roster. Ty was great but we need another legit RB which I am sure we will address in the second round. Bring back Lang, cut Barclay and draft another O-Line player early in the draft. I like Spriggs and the rest of the line still has upside which is a good thing.

Lastly....WE NEED A PASS RUSH!

It's going to be a long off-season.....


Read, Sign, Share (FIRE DOM CAPERS) >>> https://www.change.org/p/mike-mccar...a-the-green-bay-packers-defensive-coordinator

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agreed, but should your depth be good backups or should it be made of guys who could eventually develop into starters.

Both? Obviously, you can't fill your roster with 53 starters.

Is it the drafting or the developing that's at fault here?

IMO, both.

 

[picopack]

I think you start by turning over some of the defensive staff, as development has been a problem on that side. A lot of the best candidates are picked over by this time. Rex Ryan is the big name out there. After him, there's his disciple Mike Pettine. I'm not necessarily opposed to either, but I have a hard time seeing GB bring Ryan in. Perhaps Pettine. Some other interesting names:

John Butler, DB's, Houston
Cory Undlin, DB's, Philadelphia
Tim Walton, Secondary, New York (Giants)
Patrick Graham, Linebackers, New York (Giants)
Jerry Gray, DB's, Minnesota

The in house candidate is Winston Moss. Honestly, I'm ok with that move. The player development at LB has been better than the rest of the defense in my opinion. Perry has become a very capable pass rusher, Matthews is fading but went from raw prospect to DPOY material under Moss, Peppers saw a late career renessaince, and the team has gotten more out of guys like Ryan and Martinez than I expected they would. If nothing else, at least give him a shot with the whole defense and see what he can accomplish. What are you out of?

I think Kevin Greene gets credit for Matthews not Moss. I saw that Greene is ready to come back...Give The HOF the keys to the defense and lets see if he can get Clay and Co. back in Superbowl Shape.

 

[Dantés]

I think Kevin Greene gets credit for Matthews not Moss. I saw that Greene is ready to come back...Give The HOF the keys to the defense and lets see if he can get Clay and Co. back in Superbowl Shape.

If he wants back in, I think that's a great option.

 

[rodell330]

Bro you herd what deon sanders said "Dez Wounded him and julio killed him" I was like hes 100 percent correct. lol

Gunter been wounded since week 5 bro. He's got no business being on the roster next year. Just straight hot garbage. I Honestly had to re evaluate my life last night because if he can play in the NFL? I know I can play in the NFL. I'm bigger than he is, I'm stronger than he is, and I'm definitely than he is!! I'm seriously thinking about being at the next Green Bay training camp. I'll take the vets minimum! I'm positive I can't be any worse than him, Rollins l, or Randall!! I'm just older by a couple years.