I hope I'm wrong

[G0PackG0]

Sunday I had a horrible feeling the whole game. Not only were we losing to a bad team we were getting our butts handed to us. All the breaks were going to the vi queens. Our defense is a complete mess. AP is good but the pack made him look like a god. I just can't shake this feeling I have that we're losing sat night. The last Saturday night game I have memory of though was the Hasselbeck to Harris OT pick 6. I hope we don't need or lol
There's bad defense. Really bad defense. The Browns defense. And then there's the packs D Sunday afternoon lol.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Vikings are not a bad team. They played a very good game last Sunday.

I think many of us are very nervous about our defense. I am. I'm pretty confident in our offense. I don't think Rodgers and co. will lay an egg like they did against the Giants last year and we'll score 30 points. But if we let Ponder have another game like he did last Sunday then it could be all she wrote, because I don't see us even containing AP, never mind stopping him.

 

[HyponGrey]

The only improvement of our defense right now from last year is Hayward. You remember last years last ranked defense right?

 

[Jordyruns]

Shields improvement, and loss of Peprah have been big as well.

 

[HyponGrey]

Shields improvement, and loss of Peprah have been big as well.

Forgot about that, 2 improvements.

 

[longtimefan]

Viks are not bad..Bad teams dont go 10-6

We should have lost to them in Gb, but Ponder screwed it up

 

[13 Times Champs]

injuries have hurt our defense too(Bishop and Perry). But it isn't bad.

 

[HyponGrey]

Viks are not bad..Bad teams dont go 10-6

We should have lost to them in Gb, but Ponder screwed it up

Granted, we played a lot of weak teams, but they had wins on the strong ones.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Shields improvement, and loss of Peprah have been big as well.

True.
Nick Perry was an improvement.
Walden has been better too... Dezman Moses is better than our other #3 OLB last year.
I never saw what I wanted from Jerel Worthy. Or Mike Daniels.
Mike Neal has been better, but not last week.

Maybe this week he will get some Ponder & Peterson....

 

[bozz_2006]

Come on guys. Look at the whole season. We started out shaky, locked it down for a good long stretch, and got rolled by the league MVP and his boys on their quest to break the rushing record at home.

Neal, Worthy, Daniels, and Wilson have been the greatest improvement this season. We had a very solid d-line group for much of the season. Safety play has improved, finished the regular season at a low point. AJ Hawk has had a very good year, and Brad Jones has been solid at a position he shouldn't even be playing. Clay has been all over the place, but last week he and his buddies on the other side blew the seams on the edge way too many times. I don't see that happening again this week. Every one of our cornerbacks had a better season than last. Tramon and Shields aren't in 2010 form, but they're both way better than last year. Hayward and House have been surprisingly good.

Look at the sweep of the whole season; would you argue any of these points?

 

[HyponGrey]

True.

Could be that Trgovac sucks at teaching pass rush? Methinks so.

If you squash a grape ape does it make whine?

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

We were one stupid penalty by Tramon Williams away from possibly winning that game. As it stands we tied things up and only lost by 3 points in their house. Saturday we have Woodson back who, at least, knows how to tackle and will hopefully inspire the others to perform better.

We will not lose to the Vikings in our own house on Saturday.

 

[JBlood]

We lost our best defensive back (Collins) and our best tackler (Bishop), a starting offensive tackle (2 if you count Sherrod), starting running back and and still are in the tournament. We have the best QB in the game. We will beat the Vikings and San Francisco. Then we will beat Seattle for the NFC Championship. By then, who cares who we beat for Championship #14?

 

[Raptorman]

Granted, we played a lot of weak teams, but they had wins on the strong ones.

As a point of reference. Both the Packers and Vikings had 9 games against opponents that where .500 or better. Both teams won 5 of those games.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Collins hasn't played since the first two games of 2011

 

[rodell330]

Have to get off to a fast start. I would go no huddle the entire game because if we can get up by a few touchdowns then AP can't run all over us and truth be told that's the only way to contain him. Force them to abandon the run and throw the ball.

 

[TJV]

The only improvement of our defense right now from last year is Hayward. You remember last years last ranked defense right?

I don't know what you've been watching if you don't think the D is significantly improved from last year. (BTW, they finished 11th in scoring D.)

Could be that Trgovac sucks at teaching pass rush? Methinks so.

IMO this displays two misunderstandings. First, how often are DL in the Packers' scheme asked to take up blockers vs. rush the passer and second, give us an example of a DL who would be a good pass rusher except for Trgo's coaching. And please provide some evidence to back that up.

I'm not saying the D doesn't have to continue to improve, but it surprises me to see a Packer fanatic compare this seasons D to last season's.

 

[HyponGrey]

I don't know what you've been watching if you don't think the D is significantly improved from last year. (BTW, they finished 11th in scoring D.)
IMO this displays two misunderstandings. First, how often are DL in the Packers' scheme asked to take up blockers vs. rush the passer and second, give us an example of a DL who would be a good pass rusher except for Trgo's coaching. And please provide some evidence to back that up.

I'm not saying the D has to continue to improve, but it surprises me to see a Packer fanatic compare this seasons D to last season's.

I was talking from a personnel standpoint. Hawk has seen significant imporvement, Wilson has has significant improvement, Neal is back to who he was a rookie, Shields is tackling much better.

I have no "misunderstanding" I've been the guy all year who got vocal against drafting another interior pass rusher saying that the primary job of our DL was to play the run. I've cited Trgovac as saying 3/4 of the time the DL is geared towards the run. As for your example, I'll cite Wilson, who was known for his pass rush in college, but as of right now is our worst rusher. I also think Worthy with his athleticism and step has high rush potential, if he improves his technique.

I have no clue who we could get to replace Trgovac, but it is my opinion that until we do, we will not see the "interior pass rush" that other teams who use a "modern" 3-4 are getting. Trgovac is excellent at teaching big men how to play the run, but I have not seen significant pass rush from the personnel we have drafted since he has been here except for Neal, who had it when he got here.

 

[rodell330]

I don't know what you've been watching if you don't think the D is significantly improved from last year. (BTW, they finished 11th in scoring D.)
IMO this displays two misunderstandings. First, how often are DL in the Packers' scheme asked to take up blockers vs. rush the passer and second, give us an example of a DL who would be a good pass rusher except for Trgo's coaching. And please provide some evidence to back that up.

I'm not saying the D has to continue to improve, but it surprises me to see a Packer fanatic compare this seasons D to last season's.

Well our schedule was "easier" this year and we did look horrible when we played a team with a solid offense. Heck, we even let some average qb's put up good numbers against us. I just think the defense is way to inconsistent period ..and that's what it boils down to, being INCONSISTENT on that side of the ball the entire year. At least last year we were just plain bad the entire year so we knew what to expect. This team looks good on defense at times and terrible at other times. Iwish i could see the defense that did work against the Bears in week two..not the one that blew a huge lead against the Colts and lost the game or blown out by the Giants.

 

[VolvoD]

you're wrong.
/thread.

 

[TJV]

I'll cite Wilson, who was known for his pass rush in college, but as of right now is our worst rusher.

So if a player was a good pass rusher in college if he's not in the NFL it's the coach's fault? And why do you suppose Wilson was taken with the 230th pick in the seventh round of the draft? Because he was projected to be a good NFL pass rusher? IMO Wilson goes on the positive side of Trgo's ledger considering where Wilson is vs. his draft status. And how about Raji's interior pass rush, particularly over the last month or so? Does Trgo get credit for that? Or is he only responsible for the poor pass rush of a seventh rounder? IMO you are asking too much of the position coach. IMO Raji and Wilson's value have more to do with their relative talent than with their position coach. The saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' comes to mind.

 

[HyponGrey]

So if a player was a good pass rusher in college if he's not in the NFL it's the coach's fault? And why do you suppose Wilson was taken with the 230th pick in the seventh round of the draft? Because he was projected to be a good NFL pass rusher? IMO Wilson goes on the positive side of Trgo's ledger considering where Wilson is vs. his draft status. And how about Raji's interior pass rush, particularly over the last month or so? Does Trgo get credit for that? Or is he only responsible for the poor pass rush of a seventh rounder? IMO you are asking too much of the position coach. IMO Raji and Wilson's value have more to do with their relative talent than with their position coach. The saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' comes to mind.

Did Raji already have the technique coming in to the pros like Daniels and Neal? I think so.

 

[TJV]

Did Raji already have the technique coming in to the pros like Daniels and Neal? I think so.

How do you know? Since you're posting as if you do know, please expound upon the scheme employed by each player's college team. Did the scheme change over the course of each player's college careers? Which techniques did each player improve upon over their college career? Did their position coach and/or scheme change over the course of their college careers? If so, how did that affect each player? How successful was each of their college position coaches? Did the player's responsibilities in the same scheme change? Specifically, how do the techniques each learned in college differ from how the Packers teach their DL? Also please explain each defensive scheme employed by the Packers and how each player's responsibility changes within each scheme depending upon line calls, etc. How much does Trgo interact with each player you mentioned? What's their relationship like? For example, what has Trgo emphasized with each player? Since you appear to know, could you grade each player on each technique they use? How has each improved regarding each technique and where have they regressed?

The answer to almost all of those questions is you don't know. And that's OK because none of us know. Just my opinion: The difference is you are pretending to know more than you do.

 

[HyponGrey]

How do you know? Since you're posting as if you do know, please expound upon the scheme employed by each player's college team. Did the scheme change over the course of each player's college careers? Which techniques did each player improve upon over their college career? Did their position coach and/or scheme change over the course of their college careers? If so, how did that affect each player? How successful was each of their college position coaches? Did the player's responsibilities in the same scheme change? Specifically, how do the techniques each learned in college differ from how the Packers teach their DL? Also please explain each defensive scheme employed by the Packers and how each player's responsibility changes within each scheme depending upon line calls, etc. How much does Trgo interact with each player you mentioned? What's their relationship like? For example, what has Trgo emphasized with each player? Since you appear to know, could you grade each player on each technique they use? How has each improved regarding each technique and where have they regressed?

The answer to almost all of those questions is you don't know. And that's OK because none of us know. Just my opinion: The difference is you are pretending to know more than you do.

Admitted: The more intimate of those details I do not know. The way we use our scheme now, Trgovac is the best choice for DL coach.

Submitted: Most fans complain about our defense without considering the most basic of generalities of our scheme and the apparent strength of our position coaches, arbitrarily comparing us to other 3-4 defenses (and to a degree 4-3 defenses) and their personnel because of the success that particular scheme has seen.

I can look at Trg's former teams and consistently see excellence in run defense

 

[mradtke66]

Could be that Trgovac sucks at teaching pass rush? Methinks so.

Except that in the 3-4 scheme, the defensive linemen aren't supposed to be getting a ton of sacks. Yet, there's CJ Wilson with 2.5, Worthy with 2.5, Daniels with 2, and Neal with 4.5. Raji and Pickett had none. That's plenty from the line.