I don't think Mike and Ted are going anywhere

[El Guapo]

The Packers greatest strength heading into the season appeared to be our secondary. Multiple preseason threads corroborate that notion. It would be good if someone could go back and defend the position that they pointed out our lack of depth in the secondary. All arrows were pointing up with Shields, two good safeties, two emerging second year players at CB, as well as Gunter, Hyde, and Banjo.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers greatest strength heading into the season appeared to be our secondary. Multiple preseason threads corroborate that notion. It would be good if someone could go back and defend the position that they pointed out our lack of depth in the secondary. All arrows were pointing up with Shields, two good safeties, two emerging second year players at CB, as well as Gunter, Hyde, and Banjo.

I remember some posters being concerned about the depth at safety but there wasn't any talk about the lack of talent at cornerback. That doesn't mean Thompson didn't make mistakes in evaluating the bottom of the depth chart at the position though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No doubt in my mind that this would be a different defense had Shields, Randall and Rollins all been healthy all year long, no doubt. However, they weren't and it became pretty obvious to most that the guys backing them up weren't ready to step in and play once they were forced into action. Would anyone have predicted losing the top 3 CB's for such an extended period of time? Probably not, but someone in GB should have seen the weaknesses of the men taking their places, realized this just wasn't a 1-2 game temporary situation and made a move to strengthen a depleted position. Coaches have been evaluating and watching these guys daily in practice. Instead, TT sat idly by while his secondary continued to get scorched. Nobody knows what would have happened had the Packers traded for Hayden or another vet CB, but I'm comfortable thinking that the results probably would have been better than what has happened.

 

[PackerDNA]

Shields was the big loss- not only for his play , but the domino effect his absence had. Randall and Rollins have generally not played very well when they have been in.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Shields was the big loss- not only for his play , but the domino effect his absence had. Randall and Rollins have generally not played very well when they have been in.

Almost reminds me a bit of what happened with the offense last year when Jordy went down. You lose your #1.....everyone else's game seems to suffer.

 

[Mondio]

Almost reminds me a bit of what happened with the offense last year when Jordy went down. You lose your #1.....everyone else's game seems to suffer.

except Adams isn't better this year because Jordy is back, he's better because he's healthy and has 2 good ankles. Seriously, how he looked his rookie year running and how he looked last year was night and day. Then how he's running this year compared to last year, night and day. Yes, having Jordy is better than not having Jordy, if you want to point fingers at why Adams is better this year, point it at his ankle.

I have a feeling Rollins is this year's Adams. He hasn't looked the same for most of the year when he's been in there. He's moving better recently I think. and I know people will say they didn't look good starting out. and I think that was as much as tough love coaching to challenge them to grow quickly than it was about their overall ability to play the position.

 

[swhitset]

Almost reminds me a bit of what happened with the offense last year when Jordy went down. You lose your #1.....everyone else's game seems to suffer.

I would be more sympathetic if it hadn't been so predictable where Shields is concerned. Does nobody remember last year? Shields goes down with a concussion (number 4 I think?) and missed a lot more games than most on here expected. I clearly remember weekly posts asking "any news on Sam Shields?" My only serious criticism of Thompson about the secondary is based on this. It was pretty obvious that Sam was on borrowed time. Based on this, I would have looked at him as a backup (even if you planned to start him) and built the roster based on that assumption.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

While I agree with this after what I saw last night, but where was all that coaching the other 6 or so games we looked horrible in this year, as well as last year? IMO, the win last night was nice, but it was one win against a not so good team. So if MM, TT and DC all want to hang on to their jobs, they better string some more of those together and not just against weak teams.

I think we all agree with this, hence why I drew out the scenario of what MM needs to do to do that. I'm hopeful that maybe MM is starting to realize no matter how much you know as a HC, you just can't fit square pegs in round holes, I think he was trying to do that in a lot of games this year and now he's coming around to finally putting the Packers back to what they're supposed to be doing. I only hope anyway.

Will be a big game this Sunday, get back to 6-6 and the seat should cool down a tad.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think we all agree with this, hence why I drew out the scenario of what MM needs to do to do that. I'm hopeful that maybe MM is starting to realize no matter how much you know as a HC, you just can't fit square pegs in round holes, I think he was trying to do that in a lot of games this year and now he's coming around to finally putting the Packers back to what they're supposed to be doing. I only hope anyway.

Will be a big game this Sunday, get back to 6-6 and the seat should cool down a tad.

Offensively, I don't think McCarthy got any help from his star QB during the rough stretch. I think Rodgers was a major part of the overall offensive problems.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Offensively, I don't think McCarthy got any help from his star QB during the rough stretch. I think Rodgers was a major part of the overall offensive problems.

It was both, Rodgers certainly was misfiring and making some bad decisions, plus lacking in decisiveness during much of this early season. But MM was also game planning some odd stuff at times that had me scratching my head. So, share and share alike, MM wasn't the whole problem, but he did do some odd stuff that contributed to the problems. No telling yet if they've gotten fixed or not based on 1 game, but if he looks to continue what we built on this last game, I'll hold out hope.

 

[Packer Brother]

Should we look at bringing back Tramon Williams? Never understood letting him go..

 

[swhitset]

Should we look at bringing back Tramon Williams? Never understood letting him go..

No, he is done

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Should we look at bringing back Tramon Williams? Never understood letting him go..

Tramon Williams is under contract with The Browns and the trade deadline passed a month ago. Only options for Packers are street free agents and PS players (in the NFL).

I actually wouldn't have been opposed to trading a 7th rounder for Tramon back in October and think he would have been better that what we ended up having to survive the month of November with at CB.

 

[swhitset]

Tramon Williams is under contract with The Browns and the trade deadline passed a month ago. Only options for Packers are street free agents and PS players (in the NFL).

I actually wouldn't have been opposed to trading a 7th rounder for Tramon back in October and think he would have been better that what we ended up having to survive the month of November with at CB.

unfortunately I have to agree with that last part.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually wouldn't have been opposed to trading a 7th rounder for Tramon back in October and think he would have been better that what we ended up having to survive the month of November with at CB.

I'm not sure about that as Williams has struggled mightily in coverage this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not sure about that as Williams has struggled mightily in coverage this season.

You could be right, but for a 7th rounder, I would have taken my chances with Williams over Goodson or Hawkins. If nothing else, he would have provided us some veteran experience and depth and cost us no more then what we were willing to give up for Kniles Davis. But, it didn't happen, TT went with what we had and here we are.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You could be right, but for a 7th rounder, I would have taken my chances with Williams over Goodson or Hawkins. If nothing else, he would have provided us some veteran experience and depth and cost us no more then what we were willing to give up for Kniles Davis.

I would rather have preferred to add a veteran street free agent cornerback than spend a draft pick to acquire one.

 

[Mondio]

why spend a pick for Williams? any gain is going to be marginal at the very best and it will be short lived. I'm not even convinced he would be an upgrade. Maybe on a play or 2, but then his skills have diminished so much, he'd be a liability on more than a play or 2 as well. and next year we'll still be looking at adding a DB and with 1 less draft pick to work with and less cap money to roll over.

I'm still holding out hope these guys put it together by the end of the year. Besides i can't remember if it was Evans or Hawkins, but one of those guys was excellent on special teams last week in containing one of the best return units in the league. Williams wasn't going to offer crap in that category. One of the reasons we won, we actually played well in all 3 phases, something I haven't seen all year in one game.

 

[Matt39]

I heard Bill Polian on with Mike and Mike this morning, he was specifically discussing the Browns but talking about building through the draft, he stated that he has done a lot of research on the value of the draft and has concluded that there is relatively no value to 4-7 round picks in the draft, he could not find any statistical hit rate for these players to succeed in the NFL. Bill called all 4-7 round picks of no more value then sweeteners for trade bait or practice squad and depth fillers.

Now the Packers seem to find more reliable success in the 4th round then Bill attribute at least according to the depth chart, but the core of his message appears to ring true even on the pure-blood D&D team in the NFL. Of the starting lineup for the packers only Guion and Lane Taylor were originally drafted after the 4th round or undrafted.

Just is interesting to me that TT seems to put so many resources into one phase of player acquisition that at least one HOF peer of his essentially states is worthless, and his own work despite all of the extra effort above and beyond his peers in the league doesn't bear out any significant contribution to the team beyond how other teams effortlessly fill out the backend of their depth charts.

 

[Mondio]

I heard Bill Polian on with Mike and Mike this morning, he was specifically discussing the Browns but talking about building through the draft, he stated that he has done a lot of research on the value of the draft and has concluded that there is relatively no value to 4-7 round picks in the draft, he could not find any statistical hit rate for these players to succeed in the NFL. Bill called all 4-7 round picks of no more value then sweeteners for trade bait or practice squad and depth fillers.

Now the Packers seem to find more reliable success in the 4th round then Bill attribute at least according to the depth chart, but the core of his message appears to ring true even on the pure-blood D&D team in the NFL. Of the starting lineup for the packers only Guion and Lane Taylor were originally drafted after the 4th round or undrafted.

Just is interesting to me that TT seems to put so many resources into one phase of player acquisition that at least one HOF peer of his essentially states is worthless, and his own work despite all of the extra effort above and beyond his peers in the league doesn't bear out any significant contribution to the team beyond how other teams effortlessly fill out the backend of their depth charts.

So effortlessly they haven't even sniffed the success Green Bay has had. And you're forgetting Mike Daniels too. And this years blake Martinez.

And Jake Ryan and Ripkowski and linsley and Bahkt and tretter and ,well that should be enough to show that theory and your claim is bunk

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As Mondio just pointed out, including the 4th round in that theory really doesn't hold true in regards to the Packers. While I think the odds of finding a good player slowly decreases as each player is taken off the board in the draft, where and when a player is drafted is no guarantee of success or failure in my opinion.

 

[Matt39]

So effortlessly they haven't even sniffed the success Green Bay has had. And you're forgetting Mike Daniels too. And this years blake Martinez.

And Jake Ryan and Ripkowski and linsley and Bahkt and tretter and ,well that should be enough to show that theory and your claim is bunk

Well again it is not my claim it is Hall of Fame General Manager Bill Polians, I think he has certainly "sniffed the success Green Bay has had" and certainly you aren't closed minded enough to think that the TT model is the only path to building a successful team in the NFL? Certainly not in this era of increasing cap numbers that nearly eliminates cap problems across the league that demanded much more attention and creativity 10 years ago then today.

I agree that GB may prove be the exception to Bill's rule at least as far the 4th round is concerned, but that really seems to be the limit of our reach as well, for all the extra effort poured into D&D at the expense of other methods of player acquisition they have gained one extra round of quality draft picks over other teams, is that worth the trade off? Maybe or maybe it would be even better if they continued to be so successful in the 4th round of the draft unlike other NFL teams and used trades and FA to round out their roster instead of the 5-7 and UDFA quite as much...?

 

[Mondio]

I've probably said at least 100 times, there are a thousand ways to Rome. I've also said there are a lot of ways to build an NFL roster. I've also said none are without pitfalls or benefits.

Veterans who round out roster spots are filled with 4-7th round draft picks, you probably don't even see the irony in your statement.

Anyway, you've now claimed rounds 4-7 are worthless and there are basically no cap implications to worry about today. I'm not sure how much more of your insight into the league I could take in one day, LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With the average career of an NFL player being about 6 years (for players who make a club's opening day roster in their rookie season), it means that you basically have to find 9 new players a year (not including practice squad). The number of players is probably even higher, since not all players spend their entire career on one team. That is a pretty tall order to build a quality team, if you rely solely on the draft and UDFA's. While the Packers do occasionally sign players outside of those 2 categories, its really hard to understand how TT expects to have a solid top to bottom roster every year by mainly focusing only on his draft and develop strategy.

 

[swhitset]

I heard Bill Polian on with Mike and Mike this morning, he was specifically discussing the Browns but talking about building through the draft, he stated that he has done a lot of research on the value of the draft and has concluded that there is relatively no value to 4-7 round picks in the draft, he could not find any statistical hit rate for these players to succeed in the NFL. Bill called all 4-7 round picks of no more value then sweeteners for trade bait or practice squad and depth fillers.

Now the Packers seem to find more reliable success in the 4th round then Bill attribute at least according to the depth chart, but the core of his message appears to ring true even on the pure-blood D&D team in the NFL. Of the starting lineup for the packers only Guion and Lane Taylor were originally drafted after the 4th round or undrafted.

Just is interesting to me that TT seems to put so many resources into one phase of player acquisition that at least one HOF peer of his essentially states is worthless, and his own work despite all of the extra effort above and beyond his peers in the league doesn't bear out any significant contribution to the team beyond how other teams effortlessly fill out the backend of their depth charts.

I'm not going to waste the time to find and list all the counter examples I can find both on the Packers and other teams.... but off the top of my head... Donald Driver... 7th round pick.... Tom Brady 6th rounder.....