I am so pissed off at Ted Thompson...

[PikeBadger]

Not sure but Gilmore signed so fast out of the gate it makes me think it never would of happened with us as Thompson doesn't seem capable of operating at that speed. BB obviously had Gilmore targeted where TT is more of a wait around and try to get a "good deal" type which is fine but not if your gonna go "all in" on a guy like Gilmore.

We would have been in a bidding war. Do you want to get in bidding wars for players whose former team is willing to let go? Just how good is Gilmore? Or was he just perceived as the best CB available in free agency?

 

[brandon2348]

We would have been in a bidding war. Do you want to get in bidding wars for players whose former team is willing to let go? Just how good is Gilmore? Or was he just perceived as the best CB available in free agency?

I've been posting about this for two months. I really liked Gilmore and have watched him play a lot. For the most part he has played at a pretty high level. I think he got screwed up a little last year with the Ryan's. Buffalo is going through a coaching change so they most likely wanted to go in a different direction. He did play in the pro bowl last year which is somewhat skewed but how many of our corners were in conversation of going to the pro bowl?

If Gilmore was to steep for Thompson then he could of at least brought Mo Claiborne in for a year who's style of play is much closer to Shields then House's is. Claiborne has been a dissapointment for most of his career but put together a really nice season last year so he is trending in the right direction. Could of ended being a real good signing.

Then you had guys in the middle like Bouye etc etc and while people keep nitpicking the guys listed above they are all flat out better "right now" then any corners on our roster. This is where the frustration lies.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes, I understand why people wanted Gilmore. I'm all set there.

But the argument regarding rookie corners and development that I see used for why we needed Gilmore is forgotten or ignored when it comes to Randall and Rollins, two high draft picks entering their 3rd seasons who struggled with injuries a year ago but were solid when healthy as rookies.

I think what transpired at CB last year was synonymous with WR in 2014 with Jordy going down. While Randall and Rollins appeared to play better they were also matched up with lesser talented receivers in their rookie season, much like Cobb and Davante having to be our #1 and #2 rather than our #2 and #3.
Its almost analagous to a guy who performs great in preseason but then is below average against the first team. Vic So'oto looked like a beast in preseason at times but faded like a flower into regular season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think what transpired at CB last year was synonymous with WR in 2014 with Jordy going down. While Randall and Rollins appeared to play better they were also matched up with lesser talented receivers in their rookie season, much like Cobb and Davante having to be our #1 and #2 rather than our #2 and #3.
Its almost analagous to a guy who performs great in preseason but then is below average against the first team. Vic So'oto looked like a beast in preseason at times but faded like a flower into regular season.

It was 2015 when Jordy went down , but I have agreed with that logic for sometime. We saw it again briefly at WR last year, when Jordy went out with the rib injury. Even Perry was a better player when Matthews was playing. Some guys are ready for stepping up, others not so much.

 

[Dantés]

I think what transpired at CB last year was synonymous with WR in 2014 with Jordy going down. While Randall and Rollins appeared to play better they were also matched up with lesser talented receivers in their rookie season, much like Cobb and Davante having to be our #1 and #2 rather than our #2 and #3.
Its almost analagous to a guy who performs great in preseason but then is below average against the first team. Vic So'oto looked like a beast in preseason at times but faded like a flower into regular season.

I'm sure that was part of it. It's just my opinion that injuries were the bigger factor.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sure that was part of it. It's just my opinion that injuries were the bigger factor.

Injuries played a big part in the 2015 WR debacle as well. Once you remove that top guy out of the rotation, subsequent injuries and poor play just get magnified that much more. As Twiddle Pointed out, you now have guys that were #2 on down sliding up one or two spots. James Jones made that transition at WR a little more palatable, but you are talking about a guy that had a lot of experience and knowledge of the Packer system. Hopefully, House can possibly add that same dynamic.

 

[rmontro]

I don't think it's necessarily considered using hindsight to criticize the CB group last year, it's a fact, they stunk, no hindsight needed. What I was commenting on was using hindsight concerning not resigning Hayward.

If you buy into the idea that the 2016 CB group started out being light on experience, then what would have been the logical way to avoid that lack of experience? Seems to me the most obvious way (and the most "Ted" way) would have been to keep Hayward.

I understand some penny pinchers might not want to pay him, but I still say CB is a position that you need to spend some money one. We had a strong secondary for a change, and Ted let it slip away.

 

[swhitset]

Hyde trailed the receivers from behind all too often and he did not have enough closing speed to adequately compensate against average or above speed. Hyde seemed to play his best facing the QB and jumping the occasional route, much like Jarret Bush played noticeably better when the play was out in front of him.

I was with you until you mentioned Jarret Bush.... I can't remember him ever playing well in any situation lol.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If you buy into the idea that the 2016 CB group started out being light on experience, then what would have been the logical way to avoid that lack of experience? Seems to me the most obvious way (and the most "Ted" way) would have been to keep Hayward.

I understand some penny pinchers might not want to pay him, but I still say CB is a position that you need to spend some money one. We had a strong secondary for a change, and Ted let it slip away.

I think you are somewhat alone on the island if you thought and keep insisting, that the Packers secondary was not considered talented and deep before the 2016 season. I am not questioning the correctness (in hindsight) of that thought now, but very few people shared that same thought at the time.

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...to-draft/ff0fc135-009c-4685-ba49-4e06f1886b84

http://eventusa.com/packers-news/packers-scoop-havel/2016/09/packers-say-good-bye-to-players-cut/

"The Packers’ secondary appears to be loaded. Now they must get ready for the Jaguars."

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...y-become/18bb5c31-add5-4449-a7c2-05250e07d6f4

"there’s no telling the ceiling on Randall and Rollins just yet, and the current group goes deeper than prior"

http://lombardiave.com/2016/07/08/green-bay-packers-position-preview-cornerbacks/

"The Packers secondary may be one of the strongest position groups on the roster, and they could be a key cog in a Super Bowl run."

This article was written....this past December....even knowing how pathetic the Packers CB's played:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...inn-parting-ways-hayward-right-move/94811276/

 

[rmontro]

I think you are somewhat alone on the island if you thought and keep insisting, that the Packers secondary was not considered talented and deep before the 2016 season. I am not questioning the correctness (in hindsight) of that thought now, but very few people shared that same thought at the time.

I didn't say they weren't talented, I said that the group lacked experience. I don't think that is debatable.

I still hope that Randall and Rollins will take that step up this coming year. Doesn't look like we have much choice but to hope that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I didn't say they weren't talented, I said that the group lacked experience. I don't think that is debatable.

I still hope that Randall and Rollins will take that step up this coming year. Doesn't look like we have much choice but to hope that.

I realize what you are saying now and I agree with the second part of the above, but you started this conversation with the notion that before the 2016 season started, the secondary was "thin"....you didn't say inexperienced. Maybe that was what you meant (inexperienced not thin), but those are two different things and like I said, I don't think many people viewed the secondary "thin" or even weak to start the 2016 season, which was why letting Hayward walk 6 months earlier, didn't seem like a mistake. Inexperienced is even somewhat debatable when you consider the snaps that Shields, Randall and Rollins all had in 2015. History and Hindsight proved most of us wrong.

The mistake with the secondary was letting it get so thin in the first place. I know TT wants to save money, but IMO he never should have let Hayward go.

 

[Ogsponge]

Just figured I would stop by and remind everyone that the original post was actually a jay cutler sucks joke...

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just figured I would stop by and remind everyone that the original post was actually a jay cutler sucks joke...

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

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[Deleted member 6794]

I don't know if we'll see improvement from Randall, Rollins, and Gunter this year or not, but I don't discount it as a possibility.

There's no reason to discount Randall, Rollins and Gunter improving as a possibility but most fans are concerned about the Packers heavily relying on it.

We're just guessing here, but I don't believe they were ever really healthy last season. The way that Randall played specifically just seemed off compared to what we saw the year before. He was a lot more physical as a rookie.

I suggest you take a look at the tape vs. the Vikings in week 2 when Randall was fully healthy.

People need to maybe pump the brakes on all FA's.

There's no need for us to pump the breaks on free agents as Thompson is already doing a wonderful job of it.

 

[Mondio]

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i'm going to miss that guy

 

[PackAttack12]

i'm going to miss that guy

...said no Bears fan ever.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

i'm going to miss that guy

...said no Bears fan ever.

Yes, indeed:

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[Sky King]

I was with you until you mentioned Jarret Bush.... I can't remember him ever playing well in any situation lol.

Don't forget that SB interception.

 

[swhitset]

Don't forget that SB interception.

Lol ok I'll give you that one

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm sure that was part of it. It's just my opinion that injuries were the bigger factor.

Ideally you don't want a guy like Gunter to play more than 320 snaps a year tops imo. We had many guys playing too many snaps at too many positions. Tough year for defensive injuries. It still amazes me how we were able to win it in 10 with all the injuries we had that year too.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ideally you don't want a guy like Gunter to play more than 320 snaps a year tops imo. We had many guys playing too many snaps at too many positions. Tough year for defensive injuries. It still amazes me how we were able to win it in 10 with all the injuries we had that year too.

The injuries in 10 were more spread out across all 22 positions and probably to less vital starters/players. Plus, if I recall, we had more veteran depth and didn't have to rely on as many inexperienced guys.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ideally you don't want a guy like Gunter to play more than 320 snaps a year tops imo. We had many guys playing too many snaps at too many positions. Tough year for defensive injuries.

The Packers were actually pretty healthy on the defensive line and at linebacker last season.

Plus, if I recall, we had more veteran depth and didn't have to rely on as many inexperienced guys.

Good point, a lot posters tend to forget about that.

 

[PikeBadger]

The injuries in 10 were more spread out across all 22 positions and probably to less vital starters/players. Plus, if I recall, we had more veteran depth and didn't have to rely on as many inexperienced guys.

Yes, more spread out and that's easier to survive but it sure wasn't easy.

 

[OldSchool101]

It was 2015 when Jordy went down

Yes, of course, I was probably clouded by the poor CB play that seemed like it lasted for a full 2 years

 

[rmontro]

I realize what you are saying now and I agree with the second part of the above, but you started this conversation with the notion that before the 2016 season started, the secondary was "thin"....you didn't say inexperienced. Maybe that was what you meant (inexperienced not thin), but those are two different things and like I said, I don't think many people viewed the secondary "thin" or even weak to start the 2016 season, which was why letting Hayward walk 6 months earlier, didn't seem like a mistake.

I was trying to say that they were thin because they were inexperienced. Cornerback is one of those positions that takes awhile to grow into.