I am shocked!

[JacobInFlorida]

The Packers don't need to break the bank with free agents but they would benefit from signing a few veterans to fill holes. Does anybody think that Owen Daniels is worse than molasses Richard Rodgers? With Aaron Rodgers as his qb he would have been an upgrade. What I am trying to show is that putting all of your eggs in one basket is too risky. For the Packers they over rely upon draft and develop. While the draft is the best way to build a team you still have to plug holes using all sources.

It's not always that easy. It's not fantasy football where it's plug and play. Owen Daniels went to Denver because of Kubiak. He's been with Kubiak for most of his career. I don't think you can automatically assume he'd be better than Rodgers just because he "looks" better on another team.

 

[jrock645]

Lost in every article I've read today is how outstanding the Panthers defense played.

Their defense didn't make many mistakes but failed to create the turnovers that Denver did. That was the difference.

 

[Mondio]

Their defense didn't make many mistakes but failed to create the turnovers that Denver did. That was the difference.

I thought Peyton was going to give them 6 points about 4 different times last night. They were fortunate they didn't "have" to pass that often.

 

[jrock645]

I thought Peyton was going to give them 6 points about 4 different times last night. They were fortunate they didn't "have" to pass that often.

Other than the 1 bone headed int to the dl dropping back, Peyton is too smart to make mistakes.

 

[TJV]

Why are you asking me these questions? I haven't said anything pro/con Ted Thompson in this thread. I guess I'm "anti-Ted" for asking if a Mod was threatening to move a thread.

I wasn’t asking you any questions, I only quoted your post to answer your questions “Is that a threat? Are you saying that he has to admit to what you want "or else" you're move his thread?” And I did so by posting “I think what he is saying is if the OP is completely unrelated to the Packers, it doesn't belong in the Packers forum.” IOW, no it wasn’t a threat, just that non-Packers topics don’t belong in the Packers forums. (But we both know it was a Packers related OP, don’t we?) The rest of the post wasn't directed at you.

But to answer your question, Peppers doesn't count. He wasn't an unrestricted free agent. If the NFL doesn't consider him a UFA (i.e. didn't affect compensatory picks), he's not a UFA

IMO this is a ridiculous statement. The essence of the criticism against Thompson is he doesn’t bring in vets from other teams to bolster the draft & develop MO that is by far the heart of his roster building philosophy. The Peppers signing is precisely want fans that advance this criticism (including me) are asking for. The only reason I can think of for a Packers fan to post “Peppers doesn’t count” because he technically wasn’t a UFA is bias. (Just to be clear, this is directed at you.)

 

[Sky King]

The Pack has been to the playoffs seven years in a row correct? The status quo seems to be working as intended,

I guess that depends on what one feels is the ultimate goal to be reached.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There's a difference between being active and spending a lot.

I'm not against patching in free agency with cheaper guys. Throwing a lot of money at three defenders like the Broncos did two offseasons ago is something that usually doesn't work out for teams.

Most posters don´t want Thompson to spend a lot of money in free agency but to selectively address positons of need with second-tier free agents.

But to answer your question, Peppers doesn't count. He wasn't an unrestricted free agent. If the NFL doesn't consider him a UFA (i.e. didn't affect compensatory picks), he's not a UFA

That is a ridiculous statement. Thompson brought in a veteran from outside the organization with Peppers, him not affecting the compensation picks makes it an even better move by TT.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

The only reason I can think of for a Packers fan to post “Peppers doesn’t count” because he technically wasn’t a UFA is bias. (Just to be clear, this is directed at you.)

Bias towards whom? So I'm so jaded towards TT that I find any excuse to bring him down? I think you're looking too far into my post. I haven't bad-mouthed TT once in this thread.

 

[Carl]

His contract didn't expire. He was released by the Bears.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000333172/article/julius-peppers-released-by-chicago-bears

That doesn't matter. He was still a UFA. If he wasn't a UFA, then what was he?

 

[tynimiller]

That doesn't matter. He was still a UFA. If he wasn't a UFA, then what was he?

He was a FA brought in, PERIOD.

 

[Mondio]

Other than the 1 bone headed int to the dl dropping back, Peyton is too smart to make mistakes.

any time he threw to the sidelines, it was just begging to be picked. He was lucky a couple times. being smart doesn't make your arm stronger

 

[Half Empty]

You should relax a bit and stop taking every single word literally. There have been great defenses and offenses winning the Super Bowl but to claim teams need a great defense to win a title is simply not true.

Unfortunately, as I've made clear elsewhere, it's the absolutes in posts that I do take literally (sort of "every single word" and dislike so much. Nobody can "guarantee" much of anything in sports, we know that not "every" draft will be good, we know there can't be an All-Pro at "every" position, et. al. If you had just reined it in a bit and said a top defense isn't necessary to win it all, I would have nodded in agreement and read on.

After finishing the thread, also have another communications gripe to add - anyone who ends a post with "period", "enough said", "game over", "discussion over" or the like. Since the vast majority of those end up with rebuttals, that's obviously not true.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Unfortunately, as I've made clear elsewhere, it's the absolutes in posts that I do take literally
OK, back to your regularly scheduled program.

Does this imply that the forum has a regular schedule of programs?

 

[Vrill]

The most successful teams of recent seasons- and favored to be again next season- are teams very active in free agency and trades; Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks.

But they don't break banks doing it ala Washington/Dallas/Oakland. They sign FA's to fill holes. Seahawks very much use the draft as their main way of building that team.

 

[Mondio]

I guess that depends on what one feels is the ultimate goal to be reached.

what do you think their goal is? Seriously, what kind of team do you think Thompson is building? what do you think the goal of the staff and MM is? The team?

This was a down year and it was still to the 2nd round of the playoffs. The previous year we choked, we had a team capable of winning the Superbowl and choked it away. You don't think that team was capable? and 5 years ago we won it. Clearly he has winning in mind.

Every year we're pretty good but don't win it we here, we should be more like Seattle, well you know what? They didn't win it either. We should be like Ariens and the Cards, guess where they watched from? We should be like the Patriots, well they didn't win it. We should be like the Steelers, they didn't win it. We should be like XYZ.

You know why teams trade for a Mike Wallace and spend huge dollars? because they didn't draft a Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb. It would be nice to pick up a Luke Kuechly, because we didn't draft one, but where is he? and where has that caliber player been in FA? Oh, we should have got Talib? Because we haven't had good DB's? and he's a headcase too, was as likely to lose that game for Denver as win it and he wouldn't have Von Miller playing in front of him to make him look better here.

SIgning a guy like Mike Daniels would look huge to almost any other team in the league, here, it doesn't count because he wasn't drafted by someone else and then signed away. Then I listen to sports radio and all these callers, well he should at least get more 2nd tier guys, oh yeah, like a Raji and Guion?

Why does every choice he makes have to be "right"? There are 10,000 moving parts in every NFL season and another 10,000 variables that affect each one of those. He's pretty good. I still have a friend *****ing about ILB and TE. No **** we've needed an ILB and there was hardly crap available in FA worth a look even and just because we needed and ILB doesn't mean the rest of the roster isn't turning over too. It's not unique to this team, we just do a better job than most at maintaining it.

TE? yeah, we didn't have a Finley on the team anymore. But we did, and we lost him to a career ender. Something else a GM has had to deal with in addition to the other turnover, but guys like that are rare in the league. maybe a handful, and fans just expect there to be another one right away. We've had 1 guy like that in 30 years, we see maybe 5 or 6 like that around the league, but Ted needs to get one yesterday. In addition to trying to fill an ILB spot, DL spots, OL spots, a couple DB spots, RB spots. and everything else that comes with running a team. But hey, just because you have a hole somewhere, automatically there is a guy at the top of his game, willing to come to GB, and play at that exact position.

RR will never be Jermichael. But he's not a bad TE either relatively speaking. I hate to break it to people, but Owen Daniels isn't a take the top off a defense or gut the middle kind of TE anymore either and he went to Dnever because his old head coach brought him there.

I'm not claiming TT is perfect, but he's pretty good. He's obviously good enough to build a team that can win a super bowl. But to think that winning a championship isn't his goal?

 

[tynimiller]

Mondio...I think even TT detractors would say he's better than pretty good just looking at success of his team...he's one of the best IMO. Great post.

 

[tynimiller]

The most successful teams of recent seasons- and favored to be again next season- are teams very active in free agency and trades; Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks.

Hmmm....seems like those favorites along with us (who is a favorite every year) were all watching from home this past weekend.

 

[Sky King]

what do you think their goal is? Seriously, what kind of team do you think Thompson is building? what do you think the goal of the staff and MM is? The team?

This was a down year and it was still to the 2nd round of the playoffs. The previous year we choked, we had a team capable of winning the Superbowl and choked it away. You don't think that team was capable? and 5 years ago we won it. Clearly he has winning in mind.

Every year we're pretty good but don't win it we here, we should be more like Seattle, well you know what? They didn't win it either. We should be like Ariens and the Cards, guess where they watched from? We should be like the Patriots, well they didn't win it. We should be like the Steelers, they didn't win it. We should be like XYZ.

You know why teams trade for a Mike Wallace and spend huge dollars? because they didn't draft a Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb. It would be nice to pick up a Luke Kuechly, because we didn't draft one, but where is he? and where has that caliber player been in FA? Oh, we should have got Talib? Because we haven't had good DB's? and he's a headcase too, was as likely to lose that game for Denver as win it and he wouldn't have Von Miller playing in front of him to make him look better here.

SIgning a guy like Mike Daniels would look huge to almost any other team in the league, here, it doesn't count because he wasn't drafted by someone else and then signed away. Then I listen to sports radio and all these callers, well he should at least get more 2nd tier guys, oh yeah, like a Raji and Guion?

Why does every choice he makes have to be "right"? There are 10,000 moving parts in every NFL season and another 10,000 variables that affect each one of those. He's pretty good. I still have a friend *****ing about ILB and TE. No **** we've needed an ILB and there was hardly crap available in FA worth a look even and just because we needed and ILB doesn't mean the rest of the roster isn't turning over too. It's not unique to this team, we just do a better job than most at maintaining it.

TE? yeah, we didn't have a Finley on the team anymore. But we did, and we lost him to a career ender. Something else a GM has had to deal with in addition to the other turnover, but guys like that are rare in the league. maybe a handful, and fans just expect there to be another one right away. We've had 1 guy like that in 30 years, we see maybe 5 or 6 like that around the league, but Ted needs to get one yesterday. In addition to trying to fill an ILB spot, DL spots, OL spots, a couple DB spots, RB spots. and everything else that comes with running a team. But hey, just because you have a hole somewhere, automatically there is a guy at the top of his game, willing to come to GB, and play at that exact position.

RR will never be Jermichael. But he's not a bad TE either relatively speaking. I hate to break it to people, but Owen Daniels isn't a take the top off a defense or gut the middle kind of TE anymore either and he went to Dnever because his old head coach brought him there.

I'm not claiming TT is perfect, but he's pretty good. He's obviously good enough to build a team that can win a super bowl. But to think that winning a championship isn't his goal?

You may want to re-read the exact posts that you're commenting on. Your take on my position is way, way off.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I still have a friend *****ing about ILB and TE. No **** we've needed an ILB and there was hardly crap available in FA worth a look even and just because we needed and ILB doesn't mean the rest of the roster isn't turning over too. It's not unique to this team, we just do a better job than most at maintaining it.

TE? yeah, we didn't have a Finley on the team anymore. But we did, and we lost him to a career ender. Something else a GM has had to deal with in addition to the other turnover, but guys like that are rare in the league. maybe a handful, and fans just expect there to be another one right away. We've had 1 guy like that in 30 years, we see maybe 5 or 6 like that around the league, but Ted needs to get one yesterday. In addition to trying to fill an ILB spot, DL spots, OL spots, a couple DB spots, RB spots. and everything else that comes with running a team. But hey, just because you have a hole somewhere, automatically there is a guy at the top of his game, willing to come to GB, and play at that exact position.

It´s the GM´s job to adequately address positions of need and Thompson hasn´t been able to do that at inside linebacker for more than three years as of now since losing Bishop as well as at tight end for more than two years since Finley went down. In addition it took him close to three years to at least bring in an above average safety to replace Collins.

With the team being a contender for most of his tenure it´s hard to understand him not taking any risks by aggressively upgrading those positions and he should be criticized for it.

 

[Sky King]

It´s the GM´s job to adequately address positions of need and Thompson hasn´t been able to do that at inside linebacker for more than three years as of now since losing Bishop as well as at tight end for more than two years since Finley went down. In addition it took him close to three years to at least bring in an above average safety to replace Collins.

With the team being a contender for most of his tenure it´s hard to understand him not taking any risks by aggressively upgrading those positions and he should be criticized for it.

It's a game of inches on the field, and in a figurative sense, it also is a close play within the football operations suite. A wholesale change of Thompson's M.O. is not what is being hoped for by some of us. Only that he be a little more active at filling positions of obvious need through free agency. The voids at the positions that you have pointed out may have been helped (sooner). Two still need help.

Even if all help comes from the draft it's likely to take a while, especially for a rookie TE who must adjust to the NFL game simultaneously with learning a complicated offensive system.

 

[Mondio]

You may want to re-read the exact posts that you're commenting on. Your take on my position is way, way off.

I asked you what you thought their goal was, I gave MY take on the situation

 

[Sky King]

I asked you what you thought their goal was, I gave MY take on the situation

Fair enough. But since you asked a question that has an obvious answer (mine for the team, as well), I can't help wonder why you may have been implying that I did not think that was Thompson and his staff's goal? The response that you chose to comment on was directed at a forum fan (about fans), not to Thompson. Sorry, but I thought that may have been obvious by the exchange. I guess it wasn't.

What's in question for me is not what Thompson's goal may be, but how he chooses to reach that goal. Once again, I will re-state my position: A nudge more towards the use of free agency as a tool for filling weaknesses in the roster may be good for the Packers.

 

[Mondio]

anytime we can get a better player is good, but then it becomes who, when, how much and a thousand other variables. Like last year, I would have liked another ILB. I wanted Perryman in the draft, but I guess he was too slow, and regardless I think he made the much wiser decision to go with 2 very promising DB's, most of whom were not on any of our radars. How good would our defense have been this year without those 2 guys? who both had injuries of their own to deal with in addition to hayward, SHields and Hyde all missing time due to injury too.

and last year teams would have been ecstatic to land a Randall Cobb in FA, we had one to keep, and we did. He didn't have a great year, but then nobody on this team or any other was predicting that. He is the type of player I expect to bounce back, and we'll find out I guess. and we had another big name in Bulaga. We all know he's had some injury problems, but he just came off a pretty good year relatively healthy. He was one of the best listed RT's in FA, other teams would have celebrated that signing, and we got him. I guess we could have signed a cut guard from the eagles and that would have made people more happy. because he was a FA

I don't believe there was much at all at ILB in last years FA class and we had flexibility with Matthews and having some good rotation guys at OLB. I think that allowed us to put a pretty good defense on the field last year because we got to put our better players on the field. I think DB is far more important than ILB in this defense and I think we're in a much better position THIS year to address it than we have been in either of the 2 previous. Unless of course we lose 2 of our DL to FA, then I think it becomes much more important to bolster that position.

There may be a few ILB's available in FA this year depending on who is signed or not, but it looks better this year than it did last year. Will we get one? I'm guessing if opportunity, price and value are all there, yes

and as i've stated before, TE didn't develop like we had hoped, but he's still as good as most of the others around the league other than a handful of the very good ones. Somebody made mention of Denver going out and getting Evan Mathis to bolster their line, great pick up, but did Green Bay really need to sign an offensive guard last year? Great FA pick up, and one we clearly didn't need anyway.

I'd love to fill holes with FA and Ted does sign them, URFA, UDFA, etc. When the time is right to spend more for another big FA or a couple smaller ones, I have confidence when that value and talent is there, they will and I know that we'll have the room to do so because we didn't just go out and sign guys to sign them before.

And regardless, winning super bowls is tough and last year and heading into this year, I and many others felt we had a team built to win a Superbowl. He knows how to build and maintain a team, better than most.

 

[Sky King]

...He knows how to build and maintain a team, better than most.

The draft and develop philosophy is sound and the backbone for this team's success. Could he enhance that? I believe that he could without making any radical changes to his M.O.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Other than the 1 bone headed int to the dl dropping back, Peyton is too smart to make mistakes.

That statement is sort of self-defeating. That "one" turn over was terrible and cost the Broncos at least three points going into the half. Not to mention there were a few other passes that should have been intercepted by the Panthers. Players aren't smart or stupid based on whether the corner actually catches the ball, if the corner is in position to make the catch, then it was a bad decision.