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How good is Ryan Grant?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zombieslayer, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    How good is Grant?

    I didn't want to take another topic too far off topic, so I started a new topic. Veretax listed 10 RBs better than Ryan Grant. In order, they are:

    1. Ladanian Tomlinson - San Diego Chargers
    2. Adrian Peterson - Minnesota Vikings
    3. Steven Jackson - St. Louis Rams
    4. Clinton Portis - Washington Redskins
    5. Jamal Lewis - Cleveland Browns
    6. Brian Westbrook - Philadelphia Eagles
    7. Joseph Addai - Indianapolis Colts
    8. Frank Gore - San Francisco 49ers
    9. Warrick Dunn - Tampa Bay
    10. Fred Taylor - Jacksonville Jaguars

    I think injuries aside for all parties, Grant beats at least five of them and ends the year behind LT, AP, and two other RBs. I think for sure, he'll end '08 in the top 10 for total rushing yardage and maybe higher, but of the RBs he listed, he'll beat five of them in total yardage.

    Running is a very imprecise science. A RB might have 1500 yards one year, 800 the next year (and only miss one game), then 1200 the next year. But I'm still predicting Grant to have a monster year because our OL is starting to come together. The Giants game was bad not because of Grant but because the Giants were flat out awesome. Look what they did to the Pats.

    Westbrook is hard to measure, because he's an all-purpose yards guy. I put him in my top 5 RBs actually because he can hurt you in so many different ways. But all in all, I'm guessing Grant ends the season in the top 10 for total rushing yards and beats out 5 of the ones listed there.
     
  2. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    Steven Jackson is going to have a HUGE year this year barring injury. That dude is a BEAST and I honestly can't help but like him. I think he'll definitely have a better year then Grant.

    As for Peterson, I think he's going to be a huge disappointment this year. He'll show some flashes, get hurt, and miss a significant amount of time, killing my fantasy team.

    LT and Westbrook are pretty much locks to have great seasons, every year. Even if they start out rough. Grant is definitely not there yet.

    As for the rest, we'll just have to wait and see how he plays this year to judge.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think we have to wait for this season to get the true measure on him..But it all looks promising
     
  4. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Jackson's good, no doubt.

    I really like AP and hope he doesn't get hurt. I'll be rooting heavily for him, of course except when he plays us. LT is peaking right about now.

    Grant will have more rushing yards than Westbrook. Westbrook will have more all-purpose yards.
     
  5. PackFanWithTwins

    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    It would be hard to say Grant is better than most of these. All of them except AP have been around for a little while and have a history.

    Assuming Grant keeps the starting spot I would be happy if he was anywhere in the top10 to 15 at season end. Going off 07' stats that would put him somewhere in the 1000 - 1200 yard range.

    Combine that with the rest of the offense and we would be in for a good season.
     
  6. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    Oh I do too! I'm a big fan of the guy, I just don't have a whole lot of faith in his health. He takes a lot of un-necessary hits and such. But then again, so does Steven Jackson and Marion Barber. Who knows.
     
  7. packerfan1245

    packerfan1245 Cheesehead

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    The thing is his speed + power. He reminds me of Ahman Green so much. And who doesn't want another Green?
     
  8. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Warrick Dunn!!!!

    He's not as good as Grant and not near the top 10.

    If I had to choose backs I'd take over Ryan Grant they'd be WHEN HEALTHY
     
  9. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

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    Replace Dunn with Marion Barber and I agree.
     
  10. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    I'll say it again for those who did not read the thread i posted that in. I'm picking best backs over the course of the career, not the best back over the course of last season, or two. I'm looking for the backs that have been most consistent and produced more then any other. Dunn has what over 10K yards as of this last season? That's a pretty huge accomplishment.

    Barber now that Julius Jones is gone, may get a chance to prove he really is a great back, but he's a bit like Willie Parker, once he steps out of the Shadow. How will he do. I mean there has to be a reason Dallas didn't start him. Jerious Norwood and Maruice Jones Drew (sp?) all can be explosive big play backs, but I'm looking for consistency in play, and Barber, has not yet shown me enough to prove he is a Great back. He is a good one, and a tough one to tackle though Ill give you that. There are perhasp 5-10 backs that are just as close to the top of this list, and Grant may be one of them, but I want to see another season to prove last year was not a fluke before i crown him a great back.

    Now as for Lewis, he's getting up in years, It would not surprise me if his numbers drop this year, especially since the browns have not had consistent RB play in a while, but I could be wrong on this one.

    that's my opinion of course.
     
  11. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I am on board with your prediction, Zombie. I see no reason why Grant, if healthy, cannot continue the success he had once he became a starter last season. Well, as long as we get good play from the QB position to keep defenses honest, which I think we will.

    Veretax is ranking RB's according to what they've already accomplished, rather than what they are likely to accomplish next year. They are two different things.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I would have to agree with that..He has a way about him that just says he will do it and be GREAT while doing it..
     
  13. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    Exactly my point, anyone of these top ten could have a career ending injury next year, and not be in the top ten by years end. It is what it is, and RB is one of the tougher positions to have longevity I believe.
     
  14. Hammer

    Hammer Cheesehead

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    I'd replace Dunn with Jones-Drew.
     
  15. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    Dunn has done more in his career then Jones-Drew. And a lot of what Drew has done is known because it happens on Special Teams. My list doesn't really reflect any stats that come from any position on the field except running back.

    Dunn has been in the league for 11 years he has played in 166 Games, and 2483 attempts, he has accumulated 10181 yards over his career with a 4.1 yd average, and 47 TDs


    Now if you want to argue with me, perhaps Fred Taylor Should be higher on the list theN i can see that:

    Taylor played in 127 games, for ten years, has 2285 Rushing attemps and 10715 yds for his career (better then dunn), has a 4.7 Yd Avg, and 61 TD also better then dunn.

    Now compare that to Jones Drew: He's played in only two seasons, 31 Games in total, has 333 Attempts, 1709 Yards, a 5.1 Avg and 22 TDs.

    Dunn:
    2483 Rushing Attempts For Career
    10181 Rushing Yrds for Career
    4.1 Rushing Yrd Average for Career
    47 Rushing Touchdowns for Career
    Avg of 225 Rushing Attempts per season
    925.5 Rushing Yds Per Season
    4 Rushing TDs per season

    Taylor:
    2285 Rushing ATtemps For Career
    10715 Rushing Yrds for Career
    4.7 Rushing Yrd Average for Career
    61 Rushing Tds on Career
    Avg of 228.5 Rushing Attempts per season:
    1071.5 Rushing Yds Per Season
    6 Rushing TDs Per Season

    Jones-Drew:
    333 Rushing Attemps For Career
    1709 Rushing Yrds for Career
    5.1 Rushing Yrd Average For Career
    22 Rushing Touchdowns for Career
    Avg of 166.5 Attempts per season
    854.5 Rushing Yds Per Season
    7 Rushing TDs per season

    Now on the surface if you just looked at Rushing Stats Fred Taylor would clearly be better then done, but its not clear that JOnes is better at anything except scoring TDs.


    If We examine Receiving Stats though:

    Dunn:
    4009 Receiving Yrds For Career
    15 Receiving TDs For Career
    8.7 Yrd Average Per Reception for Career
    364.5 receiving Yrds Per Season
    1.36 Receiving TDs Per Season

    Taylor:
    2263 Receiving Yrds For Career
    8 Receiving TDs for Career
    8.4 Yrd Average per Reception for Career
    226.3 Receiving Yrds per Season
    0.8 Receiving TDs Per Season


    Jones-Drew:
    843 Receiving Yrds For Career
    2 Receiving TDs for Career
    9.8 Yrd Average per Reception for Career
    421.5 Receiving Yrds Per Season
    1 Receiving TD Per Season


    So You could make an argument that Taylor has better Running Numbers in fewer seasons, you could even argue that JoneS-Drew has more Touchdowns on average then any of them, but when you combine the passing and rushing stats, I think Dunn's career thus far still just edges him over Fred Taylor and Jones-drew doesn't have enough carries under his belt to be counted as an Elite back yet.

    Clearly Dunn's Production has meant a lot more to his teams then Taylor's who has Jones-Drew now as his Backup.


    Now I could see an argument for Frank Gore not being on this list:

    Frank Gore:
    699 Rushing Attempts for Career
    3405 Rushing Yards for Career
    4.9 Rushing Yrd Average for Career
    16 Touchdowns for career
    1135 Rushing Yard Average per Season
    5.3 Rushing Tds Average Per Season
    233 Rushing Attempts Average Per Season

    1052 Receiving Yards for Career
    8.2 Receiving Yrd Average for Career
    2 Receiving TD's for Career
    350.7 Receiving Yards Average Per Season
    0.67 Receiving Touchdowns Average Per Season.

    So Gore doesn't have the Touchdowns the other three backs have, but he is averaging more in Rushing Yards Per Season, and is close in Receiving Averages for his career compared to Dunn You could make an argument to move Frank Gore down to 9 or ten on the list, but I think he still has better numbers long term then Jones Drew

    Now the other bottom 5er who you might not agree belongs.

    Joseph Addai:
    487 Rushing Attempts for Career.
    2153 Rushing Yrds for Career
    4.4 Rushing Yrd Average for Career
    19 Rushing Touchdowns for Career
    243.5 Rushing Attempts Average Per Season
    1076.5 Rushing Yards Avereage Per Season
    9.5 Rushing Touchdowns Per Season

    689 Receiving Yards For Career
    8.5 Receiving Yard Average for Career
    4 Receiving Touchdowns For Career:
    344.5 Receiving Yards per season
    2 Receiving TD Average per season

    I do believe Addai has earned his spot on this list, and is showing better average numbers then either Taylor, Dunn, or Jones-Drew, or Gore. Interesting because last year he shared time with Dominic Rhodes.
     
  16. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Yeah, my bad. Sorry Veretax. I read you wrong.
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Shaun Alexander should be pretty high by your logic then. He's done an awful a lot in his career.

    So I take it you'd take him over Grant too.
     
  18. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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  19. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    Okay let's evaluate Shaun Alexander he's been in the league for 8 years:

    2176 Rushing Attempts in his Career
    9429 Rushing Yards in his Career
    4.3 Ruding Yard Average in his Career
    100 Rushing TDs in his Career
    272 Rushing Attempt Average per season
    1178.6 Rushing Yards Average per Season
    12.5 Rushing TDs Average per season


    214 Receptions in his career
    1511 Receiving Yards in his career
    7.1 Receiving Yard average in his career
    12 Receiving TDs in his career
    26.75 Receptions Average per season
    188.9 Receiving Yards Average Per season
    1.5 Receiving Touchdowns Average Per Season


    Shaun Compared to Addai:

    Addai Averages fewer carries per season, about a hundred less in yards per season, and just a few fewer TDs Per season. He also Averages more receiving Yards Per season, which balances out his rushing difference, and then some. So those two are pretty close

    How about Dunn? Dun has more seasons and more yards, but lets look at his averages, He has fewer carries per season then Alexander, by about 50, and has about a hundred less yards per season Rushing, and Shaun has the edge on TDs scored. In receiving, its no contest, Dun Blows Alexander out of the water in Yards, Average Yrds per reception, and is about even in TDs. Because of that, Dunn edges out Shaun. Okay who's next on my list:

    Let's compare Suan to Fred Taylor:

    Taylor has 2 more years in the league, and thus higher totals in everything but Rushing TDs. Fred has about 50 fewer carries per season, and is about 100 short of where alexander is Rushing yards averaged per season. Fred has significantly more yards receiving, but fewer touchdowns total. Fred get's the edge though in having more receiving yrds per season.

    However, the differences between Taylor and Alexander given Taylor has had 2 more years, and that Alexander has fallen off the last two seasons (no 1K Yard season in 06 or 07), I give the edge to Fred taylor, but jus barely, this comparison is almost a push.
     
  20. Packers_Finland

    Packers_Finland Cheesehead

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    I really gotta hand it to you Veretax. You sure have done your research :thumbsup:
     
  21. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    The whole thing is, the NFL is the Not For Long league. It's what have you done for me lately.

    I'd take Grant over all but probably three or four of those RBs. Why? He has more potential. He can do it NOW, rather than he has done it.

    I totally understand what you're saying. I won't argue that point if we're arguing who has the best shot at making the Hall. But for '08, give me LT, AP, or Ryan Grant. Maybe Frank Gore. Nah. LT, AP, or Ryan Grant.

    You have to consider mileage with RBs too. That's another thing that works in Grant's favor.
     
  22. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Shaun Alexander or Ryan Grant. Who would you take? Fred Taylor vs. Shaun Alexander doesn't involve Ryan Grant. Unless we get into best backs in the game then we'll do the comparison.

    Would you take Ahman Green over Ryan Grant? Based on career numbers I'd say most definitely. He's one of the greatest Packer Running backs of all time.

    Compare the healthy season he had to Grant. He had barely more rushing yards in 6 more games than Ryan Grant but hey his career is proven so he should get the nod then going by that type of evaluation.

    I'm going by your logic of career numbers.

    Zombie hit it right on. This isn't who is going to the Hall of Fame. This is about the 2008 NFL Season. You're telling me Warrick Dunn is better than Ryan Grant heading into the 2008 season?

    720 yards on 3.2 yards per carry. That's awful.

    Grant has started 8 games in his NFL career not including playoffs. Of course if you use your logic he'd rank well below the guys your listing.

    Here is a player for you to do your thing to. Marion Barber III. You taken Warrick Dunn over him?
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Ahman Green WAS great........WAS being the main word. Grant has lots of potential, is young, and healthy. He might turn out to be one of the best we ever had. But ONLY time will tell of course.
    Lets face it, it's all a guessing game on who will turn out to be great. So far, from what i have seen, TT seems to have hit on a gem here.
    Could he turn out to be lousy? Of course. But from what we have seen from him last year, i for one think he's worth giving a shot at the starting position.
     
  24. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    He wasn't comparing Shaun Alexander to Ryan Grant. He was saying that Shaun Alexander belonged in the Top ten. I just compared the stats of the guys at the bottom, and I don't believe Shaun is good enough to warrant being in there, especially what he's done lately in Seattle. The other guys had pretty consistent seasons. That's all. Ryan Grant really needs another full season under his belt. If he continues on the pace he started, then Yeah, he'll be in this top ten by years end most likely, that is if another back doesn't muscle in ahead of him. But that's why I made the comparison of Shaun Vs, Dunn, Addai, and Taylor. Those were the guys that I most felt he needed to compare to. Shaun has had a lot of TDs, but not a lot of yards, so some of those TDs are a result of the team he was on, and his yards going down since the Hutch trade kind of speak to that.

    I've never been a fan of Ahman Green, he was okay for like one season that I recall, but he has struggled with injuries that sort of thing keeps him from breaking the top ten in my list. He certainly is NOT the greatest back of all time, he is not better then Edgar Bennett when he was here. Ryan hasn't had enough time in the system, and came on late, so I'm not knocking him, I'm just saying he's not the elite back yet. That is not a knock against Grant, you have to Earn respect, and I'm not saying get rid of the guy. I'm not sure where that idea came from.


    He was playing for an Atlanta Franchise that had no o-line and was in shambles after Vick, I doubt anyone really cared last year in Atlanta. One year in an 11 year career pfft.


    Marion Barber III hasn't gotten the respect in dallas to be declared a Starter yet. He's a change of pace back, and just wait till they try to start him, and he wears down. He's not half as good as Jones-Drew.
     
  25. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Ouch!

    I don't know why you're so hard on Green. Green was amazing when he was with us.

    From 2001-2003, he was one of the best RBs in the NFL. He was All-Pro twice and Pro Bowl 4 times. They just don't give those honors out.

    Unfortunately, '05 ended his career. He never was the same after that season. Thus is the life of an NFL RB though.
     

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