How about that? Coach fired.

[Pokerbrat2000]

At my age, 83, I don't have a clue what I'd do with her! I'm not interested in stroking out!

But what a way to go huh? They might not be able to close the casket lid and that grin on your face!

 

[Heyjoe4]

A good point and one that can easily be lost in a long season.

I don't follow the Bucks as close as I do the Packers, but this 2023 Bucks team seems like a real Jekyll and Hyde team. One that keeps thinking that a new coach, new chemistry between players, etc. will suddenly turn them into a Championship caliber team.

I think as @Voyageur rightfully points out, in the end, Horst can be blamed for this cluster F*** of a team. Getting rid of Holiday, obtaining Lillard and changing coaches like underwear, may land him in the unemployment line when this is all done.

I really don't want to see Giannis traded and it would shock me to see it happen, but as of now, he might be the only piece of the team that is worth a whole lot. I'm not a Chris Middleton fan, especially since his recent rash of injuries. If they could figure out a way to purge him and get something in exchange, things might get better in 2024-25.

Drafting really doesn't seem to work out for the Bucks, at least recently. Beside Malcolm Brogdon, who I think the Bucks gave up way too early on, Giannis has been about the only draft pick in the last 20+ years that has amounted to much.

What a mess, hoping for a 2024 Miracle!

I don't like the idea of trading Giannis either. Middleton is good, when he plays, but age has caught up with him.

Like you, I follow the Packers the most. I certainly enjoyed the Bucks' ascension - just didn't expect to see it collapse this soon. And for the life of me, I don't understand the Lillard trade that sent Holiday away. Yeah the Bucks' early playoff exit last year was not good. But changing damn near everything amounted to nothing.

Hoping for the best against the Pacers.

 

[weeds]

With Rivers being... uh... resigned ... I went back on this thread ... Voyager called it from the git-go. Griffin didn't like defense and Doc just disassembled everything.

 

[Voyageur]

With Rivers being... uh... resigned ... I went back on this thread ... Voyager called it from the git-go. Griffin didn't like defense and Doc just disassembled everything.

Over the years I learned that the most important thing in the NBA is team chemistry on and off the floor. You can't have guys who don't get it that what you do on the court relates to how you interact with each other off the court, and a coach is the man who has to glue them together like a family. It takes a coach and GM who both understand how you need to feed into that chemistry by getting players who embrace the roles they will have on the roster.

Bud was good at half of that but never was able to work decisively with Horst on issues, mainly because Horst seemed to believe he was that much smarter than Bud.

When the Bucks failed, it was because of bad decisions by Horst and Bud got the ax because ownership never saw the truth. Now we're at a crossroads of sorts. Obviously, Horst is still there, but why? He should be gone already but he got an extension on his contract last year. Fortunately, Rivers is going to walk away with Giannis being traded.

Rest assured, Horst will screw this up too, not protecting the top young players on the roster, and by bringing in a head coach who doesn't understand how chemistry wins games, not just talent.

 

[weeds]

Over the years I learned that the most important thing in the NBA is team chemistry on and off the floor. You can't have guys who don't get it that what you do on the court relates to how you interact with each other off the court, and a coach is the man who has to glue them together like a family. It takes a coach and GM who both understand how you need to feed into that chemistry by getting players who embrace the roles they will have on the roster.

Bud was good at half of that but never was able to work decisively with Horst on issues, mainly because Horst seemed to believe he was that much smarter than Bud.

When the Bucks failed, it was because of bad decisions by Horst and Bud got the ax because ownership never saw the truth. Now we're at a crossroads of sorts. Obviously, Horst is still there, but why? He should be gone already but he got an extension on his contract last year. Fortunately, Rivers is going to walk away with Giannis being traded.

Rest assured, Horst will screw this up too, not protecting the top young players on the roster, and by bringing in a head coach who doesn't understand how chemistry wins games, not just talent.

It was just brutal watching the end of this ... what? ... 3 years after an NBA title? I lose track.

 

[Heyjoe4]

With Rivers being... uh... resigned ... I went back on this thread ... Voyager called it from the git-go. Griffin didn't like defense and Doc just disassembled everything.

Agreed. This is what results from bad management by the Bucks' FO. Do a thorough search for a new HC in the offseason.

It seems all but certain Giannis will be traded. Time for a fresh start with a slew of draft picks and players in exchange for Giannis.

I hate to see Giannis leave Milwaukee. He deserves to play for a champion-contender.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Over the years I learned that the most important thing in the NBA is team chemistry on and off the floor. You can't have guys who don't get it that what you do on the court relates to how you interact with each other off the court, and a coach is the man who has to glue them together like a family. It takes a coach and GM who both understand how you need to feed into that chemistry by getting players who embrace the roles they will have on the roster.

Bud was good at half of that but never was able to work decisively with Horst on issues, mainly because Horst seemed to believe he was that much smarter than Bud.

When the Bucks failed, it was because of bad decisions by Horst and Bud got the ax because ownership never saw the truth. Now we're at a crossroads of sorts. Obviously, Horst is still there, but why? He should be gone already but he got an extension on his contract last year. Fortunately, Rivers is going to walk away with Giannis being traded.

Rest assured, Horst will screw this up too, not protecting the top young players on the roster, and by bringing in a head coach who doesn't understand how chemistry wins games, not just talent.

How and why Horst was extended is beyond me. As much as I hate to see Giannis leave, he should be on a team competing for championships. That time passed in Milwaukee. It's all pretty sad for Bucks' fans.

 

[Half Empty]

Much like Rodgers on the football side, think of what they could have gotten for Giannis a year or two ago.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Much like Rodgers on the football side, think of what they could have gotten for Giannis a year or two ago.

Horst would have still found a way to screw it up.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In random order, but here are some of the really bad things that Horst has done as GM. I had to piece this together from a bunch of sites, so really can't name one source.

• Jae Crowder Trade (2023): Giving up five second-round picks and three players for a player who quickly fell out of the rotation.
• The Damian Lillard Roster Shift (2025/2026): According to a 2025 report, stretching and waiving Damian Lillard shortly after his arrival to sign Myles Turner was viewed as a major, chaotic mismanagement of assets.
• Coaching Carousel (2023-2024): Firing Mike Budenholzer, then firing his replacement Adrian Griffin after only 43 games (despite a 30-13 record) and hiring Doc Rivers, was seen as a chaotic, reactive decision.
• Loss of Malcolm Brogdon (2019): Trading a key player to the Pacers for draft picks, which resulted in losing a high-level starter to avoid luxury tax, is often cited as a failure in keeping championship-caliber depth.
• Draft Failures/Asset Depletion: Critics argue that aside from finding Donte DiVincenzo, Horst's inability to draft quality young players in the first round and trading away future picks has left the roster old and thin.
• Tony Snell Extension (2017): A 4-year, $46 million deal that created unnecessary, long-term cap pressure.
• Drue Holiday Trade (2023): Yup, they got Dame in the deal, but he didn't work out and Drue ended up going to the Celtics, where he won a Championship.

#1 in my book......basically wasting the talent and career of one of the greatest players to play the game....Giannis.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Much like Rodgers on the football side, think of what they could have gotten for Giannis a year or two ago.

Very good point. Horst strikes me as too arrogant to realize that the trade for Lillard was truly awful. IMO that trade broke the Bucks' collective back and sent Holiday to the Celtics. The acquisition of Holiday from NO was expensive, but it was the trade that arguably helped the team win a championship.

It seemed obvious to me that after trading for Lillard (and earlier for Holiday), Horst had knee-capped the team's ambitions for another championship run. That would have been the time for a prescient GM to trade Giannis for a king's ransom, including recouping so much lost draft capital.

Horst may be many things - "prescient" isn't one of them.

 

[Voyageur]

I see reporters are finally reporting on things that I knew have been happening ever since Rivers became head coach. He is not a guy who gets players to unite, but one who divides them through his actions and words. This has been his mantra through his entire career and Horst totally ignored it.

What gripes me is that we're still seeing Horst pulling the strings and looking at whom he wants as the new HC. He needs to go so a person who has the acumen to run a draft and find a head coach who will unite the players for a common goal is found.

The Bucks need a total rebuild. There's a handful of younger players I'd give extended contracts to at a low enough figure that I could lure a couple of free agents in along with picks we'd get for Giannis, to create a dynamic team for the future.

If you want to see how it's done, look no further than the Spurs and their rebuild around Wemby. It was quick, and they are young, with a lot of years where they can be a force with just a few player changes each year, due to to FA.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I see reporters are finally reporting on things that I knew have been happening ever since Rivers became head coach. He is not a guy who gets players to unite, but one who divides them through his actions and words. This has been his mantra through his entire career and Horst totally ignored it.

What gripes me is that we're still seeing Horst pulling the strings and looking at whom he wants as the new HC. He needs to go so a person who has the acumen to run a draft and find a head coach who will unite the players for a common goal is found.

The Bucks need a total rebuild. There's a handful of younger players I'd give extended contracts to at a low enough figure that I could lure a couple of free agents in along with picks we'd get for Giannis, to create a dynamic team for the future.

If you want to see how it's done, look no further than the Spurs and their rebuild around Wemby. It was quick, and they are young, with a lot of years where they can be a force with just a few player changes each year, due to to FA.

All good points V. It is jaw dropping that Horst was extended after he destroyed the championship team.

In fairness, he was also the guy who built a championship team in Milwaukee. But his moves since then have been awful and will now force trading Giannis away for much needed draft picks and maybe a player.

And as you note, they need a HC to unite the team. That's hard enough to find for a talented GM. The Bucks do not have a talented GM.

I hope I'm wrong. With a clean slate, low expectations, and a lot of draft capital, I hope Horst can build another winner.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sounds like the Bucks have found their new head coach.

Reports: Milwaukee Bucks to hire Taylor Jenkins as new head coach

Jenkins spent six seasons coaching the Memphis Grizzlies and was considered one of the best coaches on the market.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Voyageur]

No Jae Morant for them with this move. No improvement with Horst still onboard. I'm not convinced Jenkins is the right guy either. But I'll give him a chance to show what he has.

 

[Heyjoe4]

No Jae Morant for them with this move. No improvement with Horst still onboard. I'm not convinced Jenkins is the right guy either. But I'll give him a chance to show what he has.

The shame in all of this is that Horst will remain to rebuild the Bucks once Giannis is traded (I don't see any cirumstances where Giannis stays).

First Horst has to negotiate what should be a king's ransom trade for Giannis. Can he do that? He can probably pull that off. In these cases the team trading away a player usually ends up better off IMO. That's very hard to write - that losing Giannis for any reason makes the Bucks better. Hopefully they will become competitive again. Giannis is a Milwaukee guy and he always will be.

But Horst's decisions around HC have been dreadful.

I'd be happy if the Bucks could get back to being a solid playoff team. That would be a good first step. We'll see........

 

[Voyageur]

The shame in all of this is that Horst will remain to rebuild the Bucks once Giannis is traded (I don't see any cirumstances where Giannis stays).

First Horst has to negotiate what should be a king's ransom trade for Giannis. Can he do that? He can probably pull that off. In these cases the team trading away a player usually ends up better off IMO. That's very hard to write - that losing Giannis for any reason makes the Bucks better. Hopefully they will become competitive again. Giannis is a Milwaukee guy and he always will be.

But Horst's decisions around HC have been dreadful.

I'd be happy if the Bucks could get back to being a solid playoff team. That would be a good first step. We'll see........

To be honest, the last trade and/or pick I think Horst did right was when he traded Brogdon to end up with Holiday. They won a championship with him, and just because they had an off year following, Horst went bat chit crazy "tweaking" the lineup in ways that really hurt the team. Trading Holiday and getting Lillard? A total disaster that there was never a hope of recovery after that. The bad part is that the ownership and President didn't care that Horst was showing his weaknesses.

I don't trust Horst to get the best possible deal for Giannis. I wouldn't trust him changing the toilet paper rolls at a rest stop on Highway 94.

But that's just me. I've totally lost confidence in anything he'd do.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To be honest, the last trade and/or pick I think Horst did right was when he traded Brogdon to end up with Holiday. They won a championship with him, and just because they had an off year following, Horst went bat chit crazy "tweaking" the lineup in ways that really hurt the team. Trading Holiday and getting Lillard? A total disaster that there was never a hope of recovery after that. The bad part is that the ownership and President didn't care that Horst was showing his weaknesses.

I don't trust Horst to get the best possible deal for Giannis. I wouldn't trust him changing the toilet paper rolls at a rest stop on Highway 94.

But that's just me. I've totally lost confidence in anything he'd do.

Trading Brogdon for Holiday put the Bucks over the top and made the championship possible. So how does the same guy who made that trade then ship Holiday out for another elite offensive player?

Holiday was so good because 1) he managed the team on the floor well and 2) he was an outstanding defender. The With Giannis, the Bucks didn't need Lillard, and as we know now, it made the team worse because there is only one ball.

 

[Voyageur]

Trading Brogdon for Holiday put the Bucks over the top and made the championship possible. So how does the same guy who made that trade then ship Holiday out for another elite offensive player?

Holiday was so good because 1) he managed the team on the floor well and 2) he was an outstanding defender. The With Giannis, the Bucks didn't need Lillard, and as we know now, it made the team worse because there is only one ball.

This is exactly what I said when he made the trade. He destroyed the chemistry that existed, simply because he thought he knew better than anyone else what was needed to make them a winner. He actually got lucky when he got Holiday and quite honestly, I think he believed he wasn't nearly as good as he was and never accepted it.

Another thing that I believe made Horst make that move was that Holiday said he was going to retire from the NBA as a Bucks player. With only two years left on his contract, I think Horst believed that Holiday might walk away at any time not wanting to continue. That was a total misjudgment on his part and the beginning of the disasters that followed.

Making matters worse, Horst kept trying to plug guys into the lineup every year who did not have the type of games that would make them be complementary players to guys like Giannis and Dame. He ended up destroying a great team in the process, and the owners allowed him to do it, and allowed him to suck millions of dollars out of the franchise for failed coaches that he had no business hiring in the first place after Bud.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Horst hung on to Khris Middleton too long as well. They should have traded him after the 2023 season and gotten some value for him. His body was failing too often and his playing time was declining. Instead the Bucks gave Middleton a 3 year $102M contract. 2 years later they purge Middleton and only get Kuzma out of the deal. That was about the time I stopped watching many Bucks games, but the few times I have watch Kuzma play, meh.

 

[Voyageur]

I think Horst hung on to Khris Middleton too long as well. They should have traded him after the 2023 season and gotten some value for him. His body was failing too often and his playing time was declining. Instead the Bucks gave Middleton a 3 year $102M contract. 2 years later they purge Middleton and only get Kuzma out of the deal. That was about the time I stopped watching many Bucks games, but the few times I have watch Kuzma play, meh.

I agree on Middleton. Should have been traded back when he had value. As for Kuzma, I know members of his family and actually attended a game in Houston with his uncle not long after he became a Buck. Based on conversations with his uncle since then and Kyle really had problems adapting to the way Rivers wanted him to play since it was contrary to everything he'd developed in his game since day one. I won't go into specifics on it but let's just say that if Kyle scored 25 points and the Bucks won because of it, but he didn't play the subservient role Rivers wanted him to play, he'd get less playing time during the next game.

 

[longtimefan]

Everyone thinks Giannis still gets traded?

 

[longtimefan]

It was just brutal watching the end of this ... what? ... 3 years after an NBA title? I lose track.

They won it in 2021

Your way off lol

 

[weeds]

They won it in 2021

Your way off lol

I'm old for cryin' out loud. I'm proud when I remember to zip up my fly.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Everyone thinks Giannis still gets traded?

A good question, if it was anyone but Giannis, he would have been traded already. Not because of the Bucks wanting to trade him, but because of the player demanding a trade. That isn't Giannis. He is humble and feels he owes the Bucks everything that he has for making him who he is.

Let's face it. Giannis fills seats at home and on the road. That boosts profits for the Bucks. If they trade him, they will still get a Kings ransom, the question is, will Horst just **** that ransom away too?