"Hometown Discounts" and Clay Matthews

[Pokerbrat2000]

Found this interesting. Apparently, Clay Matthews wanted to stay in Green Bay and was prepared to play for a "Title Town Discount", but was told the Packers weren't interested in resigning him.

Didn't really post this to start a "Should the Packers have kept #52 or not?", but more to point out that this is 2 years in a row, where Gute has taken the hard line of walking away from well established players, with Jordy being being told "we don't want you anymore" last year. As it turned out, in hindsight, it probably was the right choice with Jordy, we will have to see if it was the smart approach with Clay.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/clay-matthews-says-packers-werent-interested-in-hometown-discount-139

 

[Mondio]

where is this "long line" of Packer defenders that went on to shine elsewhere?

 

[gbgary]

cap relief, get younger, new blood.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

where is this "long line" of Packer defenders that went on to shine elsewhere?

LOL....I read that too and had to think....must be predicting a HUGE career for Perry, Worthy and Rollins?

Guessing if you asked the author, he would cherry pick Casey Hayward and use that as the gold standard for everything that TT and Capers did wrong in Green Bay. I think both you and I are smart enough to know that it was all Joe Whitt's fault!

 

[XPack]

"Should the Packers have kept #52 or not?"

Yes, we should have. This is the context from the full article. He was pretty much a all round player. Inside/Outside, rush/coverage he could do it all. I think he was smart to realize he wouldn't be the main guy anymore, but would still be very useful in depth situations.

Though Matthews had just 7.5 sacks in 2017, he registered a team-high 21 quarterback hits. Last year, after Mike Pettine replaced longtime defensive coordinator Dom Capers, Matthews managed only 3.5 sacks, a career low. However, he did lose sacks to roughing-the-passer calls in each of the Pack's first three games -- the latter two calls were highly controversial in the wake of a newly implemented rules interpretation -- and said he had far fewer opportunities to make plays in Pettine's scheme.

"I was asked to do stuff that didn't allow me to have the freedom that I had the first nine years with Dom Capers," Matthews said. "I was doing a lot of dropping, and I have no problem with that; our defense actually improved. A lot of second and third downs, when guys usually tee off, we were running a lot of games to protect us from the draws and the screens. And we had some injury concerns in the back, and we had to play a little carefully up front. I did everything they had asked and I thought I had a solid year."

 

[Heyjoe4]

cap relief, get younger, new blood.

Period. You nailed it.

 

[El Guapo]

I guess if you were clawing together a list, Micah Hyde would have to be in there too but it's a thin list.

For the money, I wouldn't have minded a hometown discount for the veteran minimum and relegation to 3rd and long situations. That would have saved cap room for other needs but I think Gutekunst did it right. This smacks a bit of a spurned lover, saying they would have done anything if you'd just take them back. Sometimes you just need to cut the rope and try to get better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, we should have. This is the context from the full article. He was pretty much a all round player. Inside/Outside, rush/coverage he could do it all. I think he was smart to realize he wouldn't be the main guy anymore, but would still be very useful in depth situations.

The author did a terrible job of researching information for the article. While Matthews lost a sack against the Redskins the other two roughing the penalty calls would have resulted in an incompletion and in interception by Alexander.

 

[ls1bob]

Maybe Gute felt Clay was part of the "complacency" problem also?

 

[Dantés]

Even if his hometown deal was 2/8 instead of the 2/9.25 that LA gave him, that would still be enough to make it harder for Gutekunst to pull off what he had planned this offseason.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Even if his hometown deal was 2/8 instead of the 2/9.25 that LA gave him, that would still be enough to make it harder for Gutekunst to pull off what he had planned this offseason.

Yeah a hometown discount of a million bucks doesn’t go far. And I think he needed a change of scenery.

 

[Dantés]

Yeah a hometown discount of a million bucks doesn’t go far. And I think he needed a change of scenery.

It would also be awkward to have a guy who will be in the Packers' HOF become a 25% snap guy in the same stadium, with the same players.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It would also be awkward to have a guy who will be in the Packers' HOF become a 25% snap guy in the same stadium, with the same players.

Right. That's kinda the clincher. And hometown discount or not, the Packers would be paying too much for those rotational snaps.

If anybody says "ILB" again, do we need remind once again that Matthews went two full consecutive games at ILB without making a single tackle? That's darn near impossible. He was a poor run defender at the position and would get outrun by a lot of guys in coverage.

 

[HardRightEdge]

where is this "long line" of Packer defenders that went on to shine elsewhere?

Not many. More in recent years.

The Packers traded Randall for Kizer. Randall is now playing FS, his college position (and his natural postion). He did pretty well last year, especially for a guy in his first pro season at the position. He could take another step up this year with the experience.

Obviously, Hayward and Hyde. But those were guys entering second contracts and got paid pretty well to go elsewhere. Tramon Williams went to Cleveland in free agency for less money than those two guys and had a couple of pretty good years there.

Remember Lawrence Guy? 7th. round pick in 2011. IR as a rookie, PS in his second season, then Indy signed him off the Packer's PS in 2012 to their 53 man roster. Years as a journeyman followed until he landed with Belichick in 2017. He's been a stalwart on the Patriots D-Line the last two seasons, with a 90 PFF grade last season on a little less than a 50% snap count.

Remember Mike Pennel? Signed as an undrafted rookie FA in 2014. In 2015, he was the base defense rotational NT. That dude was a load. Nobody pushed him off the line and he got into the gaps pretty well. Not much of a pass rusher; all he had was a bull rush. In 2016 he had a unique 2-fer with the Packers, suspended the first 4 games for PEDs and then again for the last 4 games. He was cut after the season. Can you blame the Packers for that? He played well enough for the Jets in 2017 to get a three year contract after the season, but they decided to let him go after one year despite a PFF grade of 87.1 on a 32% snap count. So, where did Pennel land for this season? You guessed it--New England.

That's all I can think of over the last half dozen years or so. Before that, I can't think of any notables going back to the start of Rodgers era.

 

[Mondio]

of this list, I'd say Hayward and Hyde for the first half of his first season away from Green Bay stand out. That's a short list.

 

[906Fan]

I disagree with hindsight being good with letting Jordy go, he had a productive year with one of the worst teams in the NFL. He could have easily been the #2 receiver and would have been a good deal if he took a bit less than the raiders gave him. I however wouldn't have wanted clay back at vet minimum.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I disagree with hindsight being good with letting Jordy go, he had a productive year with one of the worst teams in the NFL. He could have easily been the #2 receiver and would have been a good deal if he took a bit less than the raiders gave him. I however wouldn't have wanted clay back at vet minimum.

While I tend to agree with you on Jordy, I think there was a large enough question mark at the time, as to just how effective he was going to be and the Packers saw the potential of MVS, EQB and Moore, which made Jordy expendable.

Looking back, Jordy played pretty well for the Raiders, but he wouldn't have been the difference maker for the Packers last season, so it was probably a good thing. By cutting ties a year earlier than his retiring, it saved the Packers some money but more importantly gave more playing time to MVS, who the Packers now need to step up even more.

 

[HardRightEdge]

of this list, I'd say Hayward and Hyde for the first half of his first season away from Green Bay stand out. That's a short list.

Those guys have been playing consistently good football since they left.

I don't think LAC gave Hayward a 3 year/$34.25 mil/$20 mil guaranteed deal for nothing going into 2018. Perhaps the best statistical measure of a DB's coverage ability is how often opponents throw in his direction. Who do they fear? Hayward drew only 56 targets last season, 69th. in the league, at a good 57% completion rate.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/casey-hayward/7064

That was on a 98% snap count with opponents throwing the ball against LAC 548 times, a little above the league median average.

In 2016 - 2018, Hayward's INT + passes defended were 27, 26 and then 8, in that order. Big fall off, right? There were only 24 balls thrown against Hayward that were not completed last season despite Hayward's good completion rate. It would been impossible to match the earlier numbers on those not completed passes.

When discussing these kinds of stats I'm always reminded of Nnamdi Asomugha. During his three Pro Bowl/All Pro seasons in Oakland, his INT + passes defended were 9, 4 and 6, including only two INTs over those three years. Overrated? Not when you consider opponents were throwing at him at a ridiculously low 20-some times per season.

Using a familiar comparison, teams threw at Alexender 79 times for a 65% completion rate last season while having several other guys being more challenge-worthy.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jaire-alexander/49350

That's on a 71% snap count, with one INT and 11 PDs, with opponents throwing the ball 527 times, 10th. fewest in the league.

[Note: There is a general correlation between winning and more throws against. That stands to reason. Trailing teams throw more and leading teams run more later in games.]

I think we all agree Alexander had a darn good season for a rookie. If he progresses as we hope, those targets/snap will go down and his INT + PD per snap will go down right along with it. Teams will look elsewhere.

Safety play is probably the hardest position to evaluate since most of what they do is off the screen unless you're going to scour the player's all-22 video at NFL Game Pass. PFF put Hyde in their top 100 players for 2018, which is probably as good an assessment as you're going to get without watching all those all-22 plays yourself.

Buffalo led the league in fewest passing yards per game surrendered (179 yds.), though that's a little deceptive since they had the second fewest balls thrown against them last season. Again, losing teams get thrown against less. However, their 82.6 passer rating against ranked 3rd. in the league. You might reckon Hyde contributed to that.

It's easy to say in hindsight that letting these guys go was a mistake. It is also easy to say Hyde was a mediocre slot corner which is where he played when Burnett wasn't injured. I don't think it was easy at the time to say keep him to play safety and get rid of C-D or Burnett. Hayward was also not exactly burning up the track after his rookie pick fest.

 

[Mondio]

so 2 guys from that list, like I said, A pretty short list

 

[HardRightEdge]

so 2 guys from that list, like I said, A pretty short list

But not for 1/2 of one season for those two guys as you said.

It should be obvious that I don't conclude there have been a high number of the "ones who got away" over the last decade or more, especially considering those two guys who got nice second contracts elsewhere. Just presenting the facts. There's no point in apply rose colored glasses to the issue, or any other issue for that matter.

 

[Mondio]

I was talking about Hyde, and he's been largely what he was here as I expected when he left but with the benefit of experience. There's no surprise he's better in years 5 and 6 than 1-4. But Packer fans have a much higher sense of what he was, because he had like 6 INT's right after he left. Hayward has been good since leaving, never said otherwise. 2 guys, not a long list

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I disagree with hindsight being good with letting Jordy go, he had a productive year with one of the worst teams in the NFL. He could have easily been the #2 receiver and would have been a good deal if he took a bit less than the raiders gave him.

While Nelson most likely would have been the second best receiver on the Packers last season it was the correct move to part ways with him considering the cap savings.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's all I can think of over the last half dozen years or so. Before that, I can't think of any notables going back to the start of Rodgers era.

There’s an undrafted LB by the name of Joe Thomas that was actually absolutely disruptive during the Dallas preseason shutout last week. Between him and Taco they were all over the place. That Dallas Defense is deep with talent.
I’ll be watching him, they both look like they’ve hit a stride or something. Interested to see if he carries that momentum into regular season

 

[HardRightEdge]

There’s an undrafted LB by the name of Joe Thomas that was actually absolutely disruptive during the Dallas preseason shutout last week. Between him and Taco they were all over the place. That Dallas Defense is deep with talent.
I’ll be watching him, they both look like they’ve hit a stride or something. Interested to see if he carries that momentum into regular season

Reggie Gilbert was "absolutely disruptive" in Packer preseasons past. You know Thomas played in 42 games with the Packers with 8 starts, right? You saw him play then, right? He's entering his 6th. season; that's a little late for a light to be going on.

What you saw was either (1) a preseason warrior or (2) a scheme niche. If it's the latter, good for him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There’s an undrafted LB by the name of Joe Thomas that was actually absolutely disruptive during the Dallas preseason shutout last week. Between him and Taco they were all over the place. That Dallas Defense is deep with talent.
I’ll be watching him, they both look like they’ve hit a stride or something. Interested to see if he carries that momentum into regular season

I am not sure if you are being serious or not. Joe Thomas WAS a Packer (twice) and didn't do a whole lot while in GB. Actually, he has been back and forth between the 2 teams. Originally signed as an UDFA by the Packers in 2014, then signed by the Cowboys in 2015, back to the Packers that same year and the Cowboys signed him this off season to a 2 year deal.

I am thinking he has time shares in Green Bay and Arlington.