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Holdouts--vote the course

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Jul 6, 2005.

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Holdouts...give in...trade....or let them sit?

  1. Give in

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  2. Trade

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  3. Let them sit

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  4. Depends on player

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  1. net

    net Cheesehead

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    I'm interested in getting reaction to what the Packers should do now that Grady, Javon and probably Bubba will hold out. If Hunt holds out, well he can occupy the B.J. Sander spot in the inactives when he returns.

    Grady and Javon are under contract.

    Bubba has no contract, but he really doesn't have an option...he can lose $2 mill if he sits out. It's not unlike what D. Darius faces in Jacksonville.

    I say let Javon sit.

    Grady is too old for a long-term deal. His contract is also cap friendly to another team. But the team was only playing him in 4 of 10 defensive plays anyway. The team has won since he came, but that isn't worth the money. The Packers don't have the cap space anyway.

    One trade to consider....sending Bubba to Cleveland for Winslow, Jr.
    Yes, I know Winslow is a head case and out all year. But if the Packers have to play without Bubba, at least they would have a good athlete coming in next year. Winslow just needs to grow up, which will happen.
    Winslow would need to re-neg his contract, though.
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Cheesehead

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    I say let them sit if they are holding out with a contract.

    Javon gains nothing if the Packers fine him and let him sit. He will still have two years left on his contract.

    Grady has even less negotiating power, if he sits out the year he just gets older and his year of service will still be under contract to the Packers for a year -- unable to go anywhere else.

    Hunt is not a holdout. If he does hold out, fining him the maximum amount possible. This may be the only way the Packers recoop any worth from this contract that is hurting the team.

    While all three should be welcomed back if they come in reasonable time, the Packers should not screw around. Put them on the suspended failed to report list -- it is the biggest leverage that the Packers have in dealing with holdouts.

    Bubba's situation is different, he has no contract. He has every right to hold out while trying to negotiate a fair deal.
     
  3. eastcoastpacker

    eastcoastpacker Cheesehead

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    Let them sit,is how I feel. When the contract they signed is over,then they can hold out.This is getting really out of hand.When the Packers signed Grady,he was cut by the Saints and I think, no one else was interested in him. For as much as he plays, he is not worth more money,considering his age and his legs.JMO :doh:
     
  4. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    I say let them sit. These people have egos that are way too big. Their salaries are a lot more than many of us are making or have made. They should try to live as ordinary people live.
     
  5. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Actually when Grady was cut, a number of teams put claims on him. Luckily it happened during a losing streak for GB, so they had the worst record of the teams trying to get him.

    Not having Grady on the field is a major loss. I was at the Chicago game last year when Lee was the starting NT because Grady was hurt. Everytime Lee came off the field, Grady was right there coaching him. We've got a lot of good, young talent at DT, but these guys need a leader like Grady.

    That being said, there's no way that GB should give into his demands. Make him sit and fine him. He will not get paid until he shows up. It's not the ideal situation, but giving into Javon or Grady only creates an opportunity for any other player to hold out for a new contract.

    I don't blame these players or their agent for going after bigger contracts. Javon is majorly underpaid for his performance. Grady has played as well as other similar NTs getting more money. Holding out is the only card these players have for a new contract. On the flip side, the team can cut them any day and have to pay another cent of their contract. Non-guarenteed contracts lead to a greater likelihood that a player will holdout.
     
  6. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    My husband belongs to a union. And when the union agrees on a contract, we have to abide by that contract until it expires. Only then, can we negotiate for a new contract. My husbands says if he were Sherman, he would let them sit forever. Let them go even if our team doesn't do well because of that. Maybe, it would send a message to all these players on all the teams.
     
  7. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    When it comes to Grady - NOSE TACKLES (good ones) are rare..
    Without a fireplug in the middle on Defense.... we're sunk!

    In this case - it really does depend.....
     
  8. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    The problem with all of this is that the teams do not honor the contracts either. They sign these players with back-loaded deals to get them for a year or two knowing they will never keep them around for the big paydays. Eventually, some of these players get cut. Like someone mentioned earlier, non-guaranteed money in the NFL puts the players in a spot as well. I still don't like players holding out for more money when they are guaranteed millions but they are in a totally different market than any of you or I, that's fer sure.

    Bottom line -- The Packers need to take the same approach that the Eagles take on this one. Do not re-negotiate contracts with players with more than a year on their current deal. Only talk extension with those coming up immediately in FA if you want to retain their services. Short term, the Packers will probably struggle by sitting these players. Long term, the Packers will enjoy much more success by taking this hard-line approach IMHO.
     
  9. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

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    before you let them sit, build a pigsty for them to wallow in.
     
  10. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    Good one PackerChick!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  11. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Let them all sit, end of story.

    One comment about Grady: Considering that he anchored a defense that finished 28th in the league last year, he and Rosenpig do not have a leg to stand on. Grady is a very large man who cannot play full-time and misses lots of playing time due to injuries. There's no reason to expect that to change now that he's in his 30's.
     
  12. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    There comes a time as a team where you are defined by what you do. Green Bay is in a unique position because of it's location only. Because of it's tradition and because of the ultimate reverence paid to the players by the fans, and because of the facilities etc. we should be able to continue to generate interest in free agents. The best way to build a team is through the draft so that you consistently have players ready to step in when things like this happen. The bottom line is that you cannot renegotiate every players contract when they decide they're underpaid. But the way you teach these greedy players a lesson is that you lock them out. You tell them you have until this date to be in and if you're not, you're going to be placed on the "did not report" list and you'll have to sit out the year. Had they done that with McKenzie instead of letting him come into camp agents would know they are serious about not renogtiaing deals unless it's a mutual thing. End of discussion. Let them sit.
     
  13. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    I believe GB is somewhat backed into a corner. They have to leave them sit. Last year it was MacKensie, MS caved in and now look what you have. First Walker, then Davenport, now Grady, who's next? I quarantee there will be more if they cave in.
     
  14. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

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    tyvm carol. let em sit in the mud and wallow like all the other little piggies. oink oink
     
  15. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    I say let em' sit.

    Yes, the absense of Javon will hurt the O but he doesn't have much leverage at this point in his carrier and Grady is a real plug on the DL but he hasn't logged in much playing time due to injury and he may have a couple of good years left if he is healthy. Not worth the $$, IMO.
     
  16. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    I took the question to be more general. I said it depends on the player.

    A player like Grady who is in his final yr should be allowed to at least negotiate an extension. I think the player needs to honor the current contract and then all the new money kicks in in the following years.
    I realize Jackson has real liabilities but the team wins when he plays. Can't argue with that success.

    Walker has too much time left on his contract and has had only one successful year. that is not enough to merit tearing up his current contract.
     
  17. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    I look at it a little differently BR. Players today get the best kind of a guaranteed contracts. They get all that money up front.
    NFL players complained about not having guaranteed deals like the MLB players have and this was the solution that the teams and owners came up with.
    The signing bonus is the great equalizer. Hunt may have been gone long ago but that would throw all of his bonus into one or two years and that would be bad for the cap. One the other hand if a player gets injured or has a couple of poor seasons he still keeps his bonus money.
    Also if a team has big bucks at the back end of a deal like Mike Wahle had, players tend to love that. Wahle had to of known since he signed the deal that GB was going to have to release him when the roster bonus was going to kick in. That made him a free agent and could look for even bigger bucks with another team along with a new signing bonus.
     
  18. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

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    You know, this is just ridiculous. I got screwed out of a whole season of watching the Vancouver Canucks because of the CBA crap in the NHL, and now these possible holdouts are threatening to mess with the Packers' success. Great year here. What's next?
     
  19. ArizonaPackerFan

    ArizonaPackerFan Cheesehead

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    That pretty much sums up how I feel. I see no reason to give them a new contract or to trade them so they can get a new contract from a different team.

    It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog, and for players to honor the contracts they sign.
     
  20. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    The signing bonus is an equalizer in some sense, but it hurts the whole system. The signing bonus could be considered the reason for some holdouts. Players get a ton of money up-front. After a couple years into the contract, they start to look at how much money equal or lesser players are making. So these players try to get a new deal and their justification is usually their regular season salary. Example: Walker had a fair signing bonus, but now he argues that he's only going to make less than $600k this season, so he's holding out for a new deal.

    As for the backloaded deals, those usually work against players -- Wahle got lucky. It's usually an advantage for the team to backload a contract because most of the time the player will decline in skills or increase injury problems. So a team can give a huge contract that has about 1/3 of the money in the last couple years, which the player will never get.

    I hate the situation of holding out and strong arming that goes on, but the teams are not at all innocent. Still, I don't believe that the situation will get any better with the new bargaining agreement, so apparently we need to learn to live with these problems.

    Of course by not giving in to the holding out tactics, these problems decrease. Example: Philly Eagles with Duece Staley a couple years ago. He held out most of TC and finally came back at the end. Everyone thought that the Eagles were crazy, but they never backed down and Staley dropped from a top RB to an average player. The only player to try holding out since is TO, and we know this head case would do it no matter what.
     
  21. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    I disagree, Sherman held the line with McKenzie. Once it was clear that MM wasn't going to get a deal, he came back to the field. From that point, MM made himself a cancer to the team and there was no choice left but to cut out that cancer.

    I just don't see how Sherman could have handled a crappy situation any better. What do you think TT's going to do better this year?? He's merely going to do the same thing Sherman did. TT's going to sit, wait and welcome back the players once they realize holding out is only costing them more money.
     
  22. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    BR I have always loved your posts. You are always insightful.
    I don't disagree with your assessment.
    Signing Bonus money is a plague on the NFL. What I was trying to say was that I am tired of players who cry crocodile tears and say the teams can cut them at anytime and then these poor players will be left out in the cold and they will be unable to support their families and have to stand on the street corners and sell apples to make ends meet. OK I know I am exaggerating. How convenient it is for them to forget about the millions they received on Day 1.
     
  23. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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  24. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    Agreed...I don't attribute the current holdouts to that situation, plus we got a draft pick out of the deal...MS didn't fold, and did what he should have.
     
  25. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Thanks for the link. The contract situation brings another aspect into play for Jackson's hold-out.

    It is hillarious how players complain about being paid poorly when most fans couldn't dream about making $600k in a year. Kind of reminds me of Sprewell arguing for more money last year when he said he'd have trouble feeding his family -- of course he was only making about $4 million for last season.
     

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