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paxvogel

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If we look at the history over the years since SB, which is ten years, there are reasons for our decline and not all are Sherman's fault.
1. Wolf had some bad drafts his last couple years. If you look at your roster the last five years there is not a lot of quality. The two best young players we have are Barnett and Walker and Sherman drafted them. I am impressed with Nick Collins also (Sherman draft) and Carroll and Thomas will both be quality backs. The DB that can come from college and be very productive in the NFL is rare.
2. The SB team was built on smart middle round picks. Sherman has not done well in those rounds and that is hurting us now.
3. You pay for sucess. The draft is designed to reward poor teams. We are the team with the longest consecutive current streak making the playoffs and therefore have only had one draft choice in the top 20 in over ten years. You don't get blue chippers where we are drafting. You win championships with a couple blue chippers (except maybe NE). And while we were drafting there Detroit and Chicago almost always had a top ten pick.
4. The one top ten pick we had Wolf used on Jamal Reynolds.
5. Wolf and Sherman both overrated and overpaid our DL with Reynolds, Joe Johnson, Hunt and KGB combining for contracts worth over 30 million. That has put us in cap hell and the DL still being our weakest component.
6. If you can't pressure the passer you can't blame the DB's. If you give any NFL QB 8 seconds or more they will find an open receiver.
7. I am not a big Sherman supporter but also believe he is suffering for his inability as a GM to get quality and I was always against anyone having both jobs. He is a decent coach but the cupboard is pretty bare.
8. The team Sherman got from Rhodes was demoralized, old and poorly coached. Considering that he did a very good job not letting that downward spiral continue.
 

paxvogel

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My mistake. Can you argue any of the rest. Or Chumako do you do anything but flame. And if you read my posts I am not excited about the way the team looks under Sherman but we at least need to be objective. Or lets go back to the good old days and complain about everything so no ones wants to play for the Packers again.
 

HatestheEagles084

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paxvogel said:
If we look at the history over the years since SB, which is ten years, there are reasons for our decline and not all are Sherman's fault.
1. Wolf had some bad drafts his last couple years. If you look at your roster the last five years there is not a lot of quality. The two best young players we have are Barnett and Walker and Sherman drafted them. I am impressed with Nick Collins also (Sherman draft) and Carroll and Thomas will both be quality backs. The DB that can come from college and be very productive in the NFL is rare.
2. The SB team was built on smart middle round picks. Sherman has not done well in those rounds and that is hurting us now.
3. You pay for sucess. The draft is designed to reward poor teams. We are the team with the longest consecutive current streak making the playoffs and therefore have only had one draft choice in the top 20 in over ten years. You don't get blue chippers where we are drafting. You win championships with a couple blue chippers (except maybe NE). And while we were drafting there Detroit and Chicago almost always had a top ten pick.
4. The one top ten pick we had Wolf used on Jamal Reynolds.
5. Wolf and Sherman both overrated and overpaid our DL with Reynolds, Joe Johnson, Hunt and KGB combining for contracts worth over 30 million. That has put us in cap hell and the DL still being our weakest component.
6. If you can't pressure the passer you can't blame the DB's. If you give any NFL QB 8 seconds or more they will find an open receiver.
7. I am not a big Sherman supporter but also believe he is suffering for his inability as a GM to get quality and I was always against anyone having both jobs. He is a decent coach but the cupboard is pretty bare.
8. The team Sherman got from Rhodes was demoralized, old and poorly coached. Considering that he did a very good job not letting that downward spiral continue.

i'll review every point...
1. Wolf's last draft, correct me if i'm wrong, was 2000...Franks 1st, Clifton 2nd, Diggs 4th, KGB 5th, Tauscher 7th, i think he had a hand in '01 and maybe '02, but his last draft in complete charge was that one...not bad

2. I'll agree with you there, our mid round picks havent been worth that much...other than Najeh (4th, 2002), and Kampman (5th, 2002)--guys like BJ Sander (he's punting well this year but...), Kenny Peterson, Donnell Washington, Marques Anderson, Torrance Marshall, Bwawoh Jue...just haven't done much positive it seemed

3. THANK YOU, great point...the NFL goes in cycles...it's inevitable that every team has a downswing at some point, and you can't blame Sherm for everything, though sometimes I like to.

4. Jamal Reynolds was a bad pick, we know

5. Reynolds = mistake (see above), Joe Johnson--obviously someone on our medical staff messed up, Cleditus Hunt--one of the critical mid round picks that teams are built on, unfortunately he didn't want to win all that badly.

6. We're not pressuring the QB, but the defense has exceeded my expectations, there's plenty more to complain about--but yes D-line should be on our priority list this off season

7-8. PASS...I'm done debating about coaching problems for this week...it was good to talk draft however...
 

IPBprez

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paxvogel said:
If we look at the history over the years since SB, which is ten years, there are reasons for our decline and not all are Sherman's fault.

1. Wolf had some bad drafts his last couple years. If you look at your roster the last five years there is not a lot of quality. The two best young players we have are Barnett and Walker and Sherman drafted them. I am impressed with Nick Collins also (Sherman draft) and Carroll and Thomas will both be quality backs. The DB that can come from college and be very productive in the NFL is rare.

The first sentence should be married to the fact that he didn't have Mike Holmgren as his sidekick during Draft Day - seriously, think about it...
paxvogel said:
2. The SB team was built on smart middle round picks. Sherman has not done well in those rounds and that is hurting us now.

No argument - His ability has also spiraled downward with Ron Wolf leaving and then Sherman was pretty much on his own, with exception for his one Assistant who recently died... tough loss for the Team, in general

paxvogel said:
3. You pay for sucess. The draft is designed to reward poor teams. We are the team with the longest consecutive current streak making the playoffs and therefore have only had one draft choice in the top 20 in over ten years. You don't get blue chippers where we are drafting. You win championships with a couple blue chippers (except maybe NE). And while we were drafting there Detroit and Chicago almost always had a top ten pick.

I would argue here that the FA approach was very poorly handled or just plain thrown out the door because of those bad contracts given to the likes of Joe Johnson, etc... - But, my viewpoint is that this angle for grabbing valuable players is exactly where the Patriots have been able to stay in the game, whereas the Packers haven't. Belicheck is much better at getting players for less money than Sherman ever will be.
paxvogel said:
4. The one top ten pick we had Wolf used on Jamal Reynolds.

5. Wolf and Sherman both overrated and overpaid our DL with Reynolds, Joe Johnson, Hunt and KGB combining for contracts worth over 30 million. That has put us in cap hell and the DL still being our weakest component.

Today? I would actually put our O-Line in jeopardy, pending Mikey and Tom don't figure out we have viable backups which can be tested NOW since we're on a losing streak with the current lineup - which, it remains "if" that will ever be seen. Re-read last comment to item #3
paxvogel said:
6. If you can't pressure the passer you can't blame the DB's. If you give any NFL QB 8 seconds or more they will find an open receiver.

Well, just about every QB - but, yea... even I could get it done....
paxvogel said:
7. I am not a big Sherman supporter but also believe he is suffering for his inability as a GM to get quality and I was always against anyone having both jobs. He is a decent coach but the cupboard is pretty bare.

He made that bed, now let him be the one who suffers and not the Team - TT was wrong to give that extension when he did - timing was very poor.
paxvogel said:
8. The team Sherman got from Rhodes was demoralized, old and poorly coached. Considering that he did a very good job not letting that downward spiral continue.

Yes, he did - but let's marry that thought with the fact that back then (?) Ron Wolf was still here. Ron Wolf excelled at partnering up with the Coach(es) to find the right info and the right talent. It simply can never be set as a one-man job. - the very next Season, Ron Wolf was gone and instantly the cracks in the foundation of Mike Sherman's abilities started to show up.. and they are increasingly growing by leaps and bounds now... Even Mike Sherman was starting to learn the process of the Wolf/Holmgren formula - but it should have lasted longer.... Right now, I do not see him (Sherman) recovering from his mistakes without moving on... Even if TT was a protege' of Ron Wolf's and the Wolf/Holmgren Formula for winning... it just won't fly - especially if we end up with a losing streak of 0-5 or more....
 

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