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Hindsight is 20/20

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, May 15, 2010.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    CAUTION:
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    HYPOTHETICALLY deviating from TT's plan often causes wars, and hurt feelings.

    I may be the only one, so this could be a lonely, short-lived thread.
    I want to see what some other fans would have done differently THIS OFF-SEASON if they were in charge of the team.

    We haven't seen any results so it's not totally hindsight at this time. Some of these guys might flop, some might spark their teams.
    We now know price tags as far as FA contracts, and trade value, etc.

    We all are on board with the GM Ted Thompson, and we all hope his draftees put us over the top this year. I want nothing more than a Super Bowl. I'd sell half the crap I own for a Super Bowl. And I love the nucleus we have, mostly thanks to TT. However, Driver and Woodson are two of our best, and they're running out of time.

    OK, here are some things that you would have seen happen if I was the GM. Now I don't know how to handle the draft, that can come later on here.

    But as for free agency and trades, I wanted and called for these 2 key moves, and would have made them.

    TRADE ACQUISITIONS:

    CB Antonio Cromartie:
    It only took a late 3rd rounder for the Jets to add him to pair with Darrelle Revis. I would have, without hesitiation, traded our 3rd rounder for Cromartie in a heartbeat.
    Now I don't like the fact that he's a male whore, etc. And I really hate the fact that he's a soft tackler, to say the least.
    But we don't have anyone other than Woodson who can cover as well as AC can.
    This guy was a top-20 pick in the same draft that AJ Hawk was the #5 overall pick. He's got a history of covering Reggie Wayne well, and has picked off Peyton Manning a few times. I think he's the perfect guy to cover the taller WR's like Sidney Rice. He's 6'2", and he just turned 26 years old. I think he'll be a staple for years for us, and Woodson will toughen this kid up with the tackling.

    KR Ted Ginn:
    It only took a 5th round pick to obtain the 2007 #9-overall pick.
    I wanted him badly, and would have given our 5th and a 7th next year for his services.
    Back in 1995, Ron Wolf added another former top-10 WR "Bust" out of the Big Ten in Desmond Howard. Desmond never turned into the WR star some expected, but his worth just as a kick returner was well worth the price tag. Our special teams units are worse now than they were in 1994-95. Nobody can tell me they think that Jordy Nelson is a good KR, or that we have anyone on the current roster who's even close to as good as Ginn is as a KR.

    Ted Ginn is a proven kick return stud, as NY Jets fans will attest to. Ginn single-handedly beat the AFC runner-ups last year with 2 KR Touchdowns in the same game.
    He also, in the other game, torched Darrelle Revis for a 55-yard TD. He's already accomplished more as a WR than Howard ever did.
    Regardless, he's good enough and young enough to be worth the 5th round pick for just his kick return ability.
    Plus I look at him as a Willie Gault/Bernard Berrian type of pure deep threat. He opens up the middle of the field a little bit because he's so fast.

    But on our team, he'd be the #5 WR and would have no pressure on him, unlike in Miami when they took him #9 overall and the fans hated him from the beginning because they wanted Brady Quinn so damn much with that pick!

    OLB Joey Porter:
    He's got 2 fewer years of mileage on him than Jason Taylor does. He's played both sides of a 3-4 as OLB. He led the Dolphins in sacks this past year with 9 (just 1 fewer than Clay Matthews had), and in 2008 he led the team with 17.5, which I think would be a Packers record. If that's washed up, then I'm buying, but I think he would have been the perfect OLB for Brad Jones to be behind, and Porter's nastiness would have giuven us an edge and spark against teams like the Vikings and Favre. The intimidation factor is worth something against skittish QBs.
    Anyway, he didn't want to come to Green Bay, most likely, and his cost was too high. So cross Porter off, but I would have tried hard to get him. Who knows, maybe Ted did.

    OLB Adalius Thomas:
    He's got a year less on his tires than Porter has, and he's still ranked an 80 by the ESPN Insider Scouts Inc., which is ahead of Porter actually.
    He's 265-270 pounds, so I think he's a fine compliment to Clay Matthews who's smaller and quicker. Thomas is a bull.
    However, Thomas sucked last year, missed more % of tackles than about any LB, so I won't overspend for this guy. That might have been, like Randy Moss in Oakland, all about attitude and scheme than it was a decline in ability.

    He's yet to sign with anybody so I don't know the price tag. Whatever it is, we can afford it. Still, if this guy is demanding a ton, then I'll pass. But if he's eager to play, hungry for a Super Bowl (as Santana Dotson, Eugene Robinson, Keith Jackson, Don Beebe were back in the 90's for us), then I make a play for Adalius.

    He's 32, so is right there in age with Driver, Woodson, Clifton, Tauscher... younger than Al Harris. Thomas' birthday is actually the same as mine, so that's a good thing.

    Again, to summarize, I 'd only bring Adalius in if the price is right. I don't think he's getting bombarded with big offers, so I'm thinking reasonably here, with some additional incentive-laced bonuses he can earn with bigger sack #'s and team success.

    I think Dom Capers & Kevin Greene can get the best out of Adailus opposite Clay. To be honest, I suspect Ted Thompson has not personally crossed off Thomas from his list.

    Now the above list is not exactly the same as the types of players Wolf brought in, but it's pretty similar in the fact that these guys add depth and upgrade positional weaknesses for us.
    And they don't cost us too much. We'd still have all/most of our premium draft picks like Bulaga and Neal or Burnett, etc. We had 7 draft picks last month. After this, we'd be down to 6.

    Remember, the Vikings have won back-to-back division titles from us, and with Favre, they're still going to be a slight favorite on us, although it's close. And they've taken a lot of big swings in free agency and trades.
    Think Favre, Jared Allen, Steve Hutchinson, Pat Williams, Bernard Berrian, Longwell, Antoine Winfield also was a FA addition. Sharper helped them too. :viksux:

    A
    s Ron Wolf did, sometimes it takes some big swings to get to the top.
    He didn't always connect, but he went for it and the 2 Super Bowls (1 title) were well worth the occasional whiffs.
     
  2. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Are there any moves anyone here would have made if they were in charge?
    I know I cannot be the only one who was sickened by our pass defense last year.
    I can't be the only one who is not sold on Pat Lee, Underwood, Blackmon, and Harris coming back from the wicked ACL injury, at age 35.

    Anyone else willing to play along? It's the off-season !

    NFL Free Agency - 2010 NFL Free Agents and Signings - ESPN
     
  3. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I highly disagree on the Cromartie pickup. I've posted this link on another thread before: Cromartie has complained about the Chargers playing too much zone | ProFootballTalk.com

    The chargers ran a lot of Cover-2, Cover-3, Fire zones that Cromartie hated to play in. What makes you think he would've liked it here?

    I don't like the Joey Porter pickup either. I definitely think he's got a lot left in the tank but the genius managed to get arrested the week after he got a new contract. Now he's looking at a possible suspension from the league and the Cardinals w/o an OLB. I'm glad we're not in the same predicament.

    Adalius Thomas is still an option and I'd love for him to come to Green Bay. He's worked under Capers and has extensive knowledge of the 3-4. He'd make a perfect fit.
     
  4. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I'm a huge fan of Derrick Johnson. Word on the street is the coaches benched him for some unknown reason. They said he didn't quite play well but managed to rack up some big plays in the season. He's friggin reckless and that's the type of LB we need.
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Moved up in the 2nd to take Kindle or try and sign Jason Taylor. Or move up in the first for a second straight year to grab a corner. Other than that nothing.
     
  6. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Cromartie: I wouldn't touch. We missed LOTS of tackles against AZ. Missing MORE wouldn't be nice...

    Porter: Ditto. He's a bum, that doesn't play the run. And he's not that much of an impact player anymore.

    Adalius Thomas: I would absolutely go after him. See how he is mentally, see if he has anything left in the tank.

    I would've gone after Jason Taylor. I think he's way past his prime, but he'd be one solid backup, and that's what we need.

    All in all, I'm not worried right now. The only position I believe we lack is OLB depth. I think our CB depth is fine, so is our S. I think between Dillon, Blackmon and Shields, there'll be a very good return man.

    There's one guy I'd really, really go after right now. Hunter Smith...
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Ted says he wants to add another OLB, so Thomas should be on his radar.
     
  8. A1MEANGREEN

    A1MEANGREEN Cheesehead

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    I would hope so
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I've heard him say that after the draft.

    And we did add OLBs, some undrafted kids...

    So...
     
  10. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Yeah I was thinking the same thing. When TT said that it was a position he was looking at OLB as a position of improvement, it was before he signed guys like Zombo and Knicky. I think he'd like to see how they unfold during preseason before allowing a FA to come in.
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I think even if they struggle, he sticks with them...
     
  12. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Normally when they use the word "experienced" they are not talking about an undrafted FA, LOL.
     
  13. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I've never heard him say he wanted to bring in experienced OLBs... Only that he wanted to bring in more OLBs... Actually, I think he said linebackers, and not OLBs precisely...
     
  14. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    I would have loved Ted Ginn :D
     
  15. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Here's the transcript from Packers.com:

     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    There has been several questions on it. Some to Ted and some to Mike.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    via packers beat writer Bedard

    Some of you have asked about this "rumor." That's not a rumor, Tom just pointed out the top two veteran free agents available. Might as well throw Clint Ingram (Jaguars) and Chike Okeafor (Cardinals) in the mix also. Packers could also look for a player-for-player trade, although that's not really Ted Thompson's MO besides the Vernand Morency-Samkon Gado swap.

    Don't know if I see Thomas in Green Bay. He's a bit big for the Packers' scheme - 6-2, 270 - and he's going to be 33 on July 18.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that Thomas is represented by Bus Cook, who is more famously known as Brett Favre's agent. I don't know if there's residual bad blood there, but I don't think the Packers have worked with Cook on anything since Favre's departure (Perhaps they have and it's slipped my mind). That's likely coincidental -- both sides are professional after all, Cook doesn't have a ton of clients -- but just something to keep in mind. (Packers also passed on Craig Nall, a Cook client, when the conventional wisdom was Packers might sign him to be a veteran to Aaron Rodgers. To be fair, Nall was terrible in 2007).
     
  18. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Cromartie? No thanks. From watching post season highlights he doesn't seem to be too eager to tackle people. He had one decent season and then nothing much and comes with some serious baggage.

    Ginn? Really?? Ted Ginn Jr. Profile - San Francisco 49ers - ESPN

    Ted Ginn Jr. - San Francisco 49ers - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

    This guy is one of the all time reaches in NFL draft history.

    Porter? Maybe, but is he at this point in his career any better than anyone currently on our roster? And he is getting a little long in the tooth.

    Thomas? Doesn't the fact that he is still unemployed make you pause? Is he better truly than Brad Jones? I doubt it.
    Adalius Thomas

    How come whenever a recognized name becomes a FA or is rumored to be on the trading block that some folks automatically think these guys are an upgrade to the fellas already on our roster?
     
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Ted Ginn may have been a reach at #9 overall (he was), but so was Desmond Howard in the 1990's prior to us picking him up.

    And this is what Ted Ginn can do. We don't need him to carry any weight at WR on our offense, but he'd be an asset to stretch the field if need be, but his kick return ability could have won a game or two alone, as he did against the Jets in November. Remember how we lost to Tampa Bay? A kick return killed us.
    Watch these from November, and tell me we have someone else who can do this. Don't you dare say Jordy Nelson who looks like a gazelle back there! LOL
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnpiU91e65M]YouTube - Ted Ginn Jr. - 2 Kickoff Returns for Touchdowns!!! Dolphins Vs. Jets 2009![/ame]


    Then let's say nobody escaped Revis Island last year. Not Andre Johnson, not Randy Moss, not Reggie Wayne. But Ted Ginn did. Watch this replay, Ginn makes Revis look like Jarrett Bush. Seriously.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc&feature=related]YouTube - Ted Ginn Jr Smokes Darrelle Revis For 53 Yard TD Catch[/ame]

    And you're telling me he's not worth a 5th round pick?
    That's one of the most wrong things I have ever heard said by a Packer fan.

    Have the guts to watch those 2 clips versus the AFC runner-up Jets!
    Their fans are happy as hell they sent him to San Francisco, and 49er nation is happy as hell now that they have Ginn there to go along with Crabtree, Vernon Davis, and Frank Gore. For a 5th rounder... steal city.
     
  20. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    As for Cromartie: I know the guy's a wuss tackling. So was Deion.
    But Cromartie can lockdown WRs like nobody else on our team besides Woodson, and Cro is only 26, so about 6 years younger than Woodson.

    He locks down Reggie Wayne like nobody else can, including Revis, and the Colts might be our Super Bowl opponent. Plus he's tall and a good match for Sidney Rice and Randy Moss, who we play this season.

    You might be confident in Jarrett Bush, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, and Will Blackmon to be our #3 CB-down. I'm not.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Of0QMHiak]YouTube - Antonio Cromartie vs. Indianapolis[/ame]
     
  21. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Ginn has a grand total of 5 TDs in his 4 year career as a WR and 2 as a kick returner. Not exactly stellar.

    Cromartie was great in 2007 but hasn't done much since then. The Chargers grew tired of his lack of effort and were eager to be rid of this guy. To me that is one huge red flag!

    I don't know if Lee, Underwood or Blackmon will be the answer at #3 but I'm not ready to dismiss them just yet because of injuries last season.
     
  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
    Ted Ginn Jr. Stats - San Francisco 49ers - ESPN

    #1- Ginn has 3 return TDs.
    #2- Ginn has 2 rushing TDs.
    #3- Ginn has played 3 years only, not 4.

    By the way, you dismiss 3 return TDs as meaningless;
    How many kick return TDs have the Packers gotten in those same years?
    Name the last TD we returned for a KR TD.

    2007
    2008
    2009
    That = 3 seasons. Nice math skills pugger! :butcher:
    JK, you probably had some beers before writing all that.
     
  23. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    LOL! I wish I had had a beer when writing that. I looked it up again and you are right.

    Ted Ginn Jr.: Career Stats

    Do you know what his salary is? Maybe TT didn't want to pay top dollar for just a return guy? Maybe he wants somebody who will also contribute as a WR or DB.
     
  24. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    I would personally have been on-board for either Porter or Thomas, however I have never been sold on Cromartie. Especially since I lived in Huntington Beach for 3 years and saw every missed tackle he tried for. He just has no recognition or skill for it, and obviously has no desire to get better at it.

    Instead of him I would have traded for Richard Marshall. But that is just me.
     
  25. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    you bring up a great point, he was a 1st rounder and he would be overpaid with his current situation.
     

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