what big name free agent do you feel TT should have signed?
I would like to see willis magahee.
this way we can take a good saftey in the first and a wr in the second!!!!
what big name free agent do you feel TT should have signed?
porky88 said:refpacker said:porky88 said:refpacker said:OF the top 30 UFA as sited by ESPN we are reportedly talking to 0...I mean seriously this is considered by many to be the best FA market in the last 10 yrs and we havent even batted an eye at any big names...
Who told you that?
Every major media outlet has identified this as a weak free agent class. ESPN being one of them. Last years class was stronger.
Here's a pretty good article
Pro Football Weekly
Why are so many people shocked that Green Bay isn't going out for big name players? They didn't do it last year until a week into free agency and they won't this year or any year unless they fall in love with a player.
Looking at some of the contracts signed. The Packers have made the right moves.
Although I'd like to see some of the money we have given to Nick Barnett.
Not a good market?????????
Adalius thomas, Travis henry, joey porter, willis magahee, Thomas jones, lance briggs, london flethcer baker, ahman green, nate clements, dre bly.....Just look at all the moves or people who could be moved this years market is huge....Not all are FA's but al are definately attainable...
WHAT ARE YALL LOOKIN AT?
Did you read the article?
Evidently not. This market is okay. It's not very strong. Half the guys you named aren't part of the free agent market. They're available through trade.
McGahee and Jones are both under contract and only available with compensation. Bly available through trade. A division rival at that. Briggs available through trade and is a franchise player. He‘s under contract for one more year now. Another division rival too.
London Fletcher is a good but aging player.
Would you pay 80 million for Nate Clements and 22 up front for him when we already have Woodson and Harris?
Keep in mind if the Packers do that then the contracts Woodson and Harris get look like jokes and it gives them a very legit reason to hold out.
Every single media outlet has called this a fairly weak class for the most front. The additions of Porter and Henry helped but it’s far from the best class in the last ten year. Your entitled to your opinion but at least look at all four sides of the square.
Dont forget lavar arrington, randy moss, jeff garcia....Those people are just considerin FA's...im takin into account all players available or on trading blocks.....IT is a huge market look at these names!!!
sbp_387 said:what big name free agent do you feel TT should have signed?
I would like to see willis magahee.
this way we can take a good saftey in the first and a wr in the second!!!!
sbp_387 said:what big name free agent do you feel TT should have signed?
I would like to see willis magahee.
this way we can take a good saftey in the first and a wr in the second!!!!
refpacker said:porky88 said:refpacker said:porky88 said:refpacker said:OF the top 30 UFA as sited by ESPN we are reportedly talking to 0...I mean seriously this is considered by many to be the best FA market in the last 10 yrs and we havent even batted an eye at any big names...
Who told you that?
Every major media outlet has identified this as a weak free agent class. ESPN being one of them. Last years class was stronger.
Here's a pretty good article
Pro Football Weekly
Why are so many people shocked that Green Bay isn't going out for big name players? They didn't do it last year until a week into free agency and they won't this year or any year unless they fall in love with a player.
Looking at some of the contracts signed. The Packers have made the right moves.
Although I'd like to see some of the money we have given to Nick Barnett.
Not a good market?????????
Adalius thomas, Travis henry, joey porter, willis magahee, Thomas jones, lance briggs, london flethcer baker, ahman green, nate clements, dre bly.....Just look at all the moves or people who could be moved this years market is huge....Not all are FA's but al are definately attainable...
WHAT ARE YALL LOOKIN AT?
Did you read the article?
Evidently not. This market is okay. It's not very strong. Half the guys you named aren't part of the free agent market. They're available through trade.
McGahee and Jones are both under contract and only available with compensation. Bly available through trade. A division rival at that. Briggs available through trade and is a franchise player. He‘s under contract for one more year now. Another division rival too.
London Fletcher is a good but aging player.
Would you pay 80 million for Nate Clements and 22 up front for him when we already have Woodson and Harris?
Keep in mind if the Packers do that then the contracts Woodson and Harris get look like jokes and it gives them a very legit reason to hold out.
Every single media outlet has called this a fairly weak class for the most front. The additions of Porter and Henry helped but it’s far from the best class in the last ten year. Your entitled to your opinion but at least look at all four sides of the square.
Dont forget lavar arrington, randy moss, jeff garcia....Those people are just considerin FA's...im takin into account all players available or on trading blocks.....IT is a huge market look at these names!!!
You pretty much ignored eveyrthing in that post. :whippin:
Moss is not a free agent. He's under contract. By the logic your using Brett Favre is on the market along with every single player in the NFL. That's not how it works. If that was the case then every year would be big.
Ref calm down there man. Honestly i see your point but you tend to miss everyone elses.
This by virtue of being a so so F/A market causes people to reach on signings. TT while I too get frustrated is waiting for the bomb to finish its explosion and go for value over hype.
While alot of those you mentioned not all would be a fit for the Pack.
Hell I dont even think Randy Moss would be a fit in a west coast scheme that relies so much on crisp routes over just run that way and I will throw it up there you go get it.
With Zone Blocking a proper fit at running back is exteremly important. Zone runners cannot be dancers in the backfield a one cut and gone guy is what you need.
While Ahamn will be missed he is not a omg we are destined for a 2-14 season. RB's can be had and for value say round three or four where smaller school backs tend to sit. Look at Denver and how they were a running back factory with guys most would consider reaches in the 3rd and fourth round at the time.
Dude it was my post...I messed up when I said the FA market....AND NO NOT EVERYPLAYER IS AVAILABLE!!!!
THE PLAYERS I LISTED ARE EITHER FA's OR ON THE TRADING BLOCK..... Brett IS ON NEITHER SO HOW IS HE AVIALABLE....POINT is there are big names out there whether they be fa's or not...and we are doing nothing to get them .....WAKE UP... :comp:
refpacker said:Dude it was my post...I messed up when I said the FA market....AND NO NOT EVERYPLAYER IS AVAILABLE!!!!
THE PLAYERS I LISTED ARE EITHER FA's OR ON THE TRADING BLOCK..... Brett IS ON NEITHER SO HOW IS HE AVIALABLE....POINT is there are big names out there whether they be fa's or not...and we are doing nothing to get them .....WAKE UP... :comp:
It's not as simple as calling them up and signing them.
How about some facts. Such as the Packers have contacted the Raiders about Randy Moss. That sure seems like their doing something to get him.
Also you ignored what I asked about McGahee and Clements. Sure it's easy to say "Yeah let's go get them" but how about analyzing what it would take to get them.
For instance. Willis McGahee
The Packers would have to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick
The Packers would have to sign him to probably between 5 and 6 years worth 40 to 50 mil with 15 and 20 million up front.
Is he worth that?
Then Nate Clements. Looking at the contract he signed which is a cap killer down the road. Would you pay him that kind of money and then suffer the consequences down the road including financial problems and a possible unhappy tandem of Charles Woodson and Al Harris?
Then you act as if the market is completely gone. Plenty of talent left. Keep in mind Ryan Pickett was not signed unit a few weeks into free agency a year ago and Charles Woodson was signed a few days before the NFL Draft.
When you negotiate ALWAYS do it from a position of STRENGTH vs. weakness. When FA started EVERY TEAM had money which gave the players the position of strength.
JbShell said:Ref calm down there man. Honestly i see your point but you tend to miss everyone elses.
This by virtue of being a so so F/A market causes people to reach on signings. TT while I too get frustrated is waiting for the bomb to finish its explosion and go for value over hype.
While alot of those you mentioned not all would be a fit for the Pack.
Hell I dont even think Randy Moss would be a fit in a west coast scheme that relies so much on crisp routes over just run that way and I will throw it up there you go get it.
With Zone Blocking a proper fit at running back is exteremly important. Zone runners cannot be dancers in the backfield a one cut and gone guy is what you need.
While Ahamn will be missed he is not a omg we are destined for a 2-14 season. RB's can be had and for value say round three or four where smaller school backs tend to sit. Look at Denver and how they were a running back factory with guys most would consider reaches in the 3rd and fourth round at the time.
I agree...I understand the point of not signing the wrong player or giving up too much money... Im just gettin worked up that there are big names out there. They arent FA's but they are out there.... no one can say Lance briggs, adalius thomas, and nate clements werent big names...All im sayin is with our cap room why cant we get someone....I know we dont need lb's but u see where im goin.
refpacker said:JbShell said:Ref calm down there man. Honestly i see your point but you tend to miss everyone elses.
This by virtue of being a so so F/A market causes people to reach on signings. TT while I too get frustrated is waiting for the bomb to finish its explosion and go for value over hype.
While alot of those you mentioned not all would be a fit for the Pack.
Hell I dont even think Randy Moss would be a fit in a west coast scheme that relies so much on crisp routes over just run that way and I will throw it up there you go get it.
With Zone Blocking a proper fit at running back is exteremly important. Zone runners cannot be dancers in the backfield a one cut and gone guy is what you need.
While Ahamn will be missed he is not a omg we are destined for a 2-14 season. RB's can be had and for value say round three or four where smaller school backs tend to sit. Look at Denver and how they were a running back factory with guys most would consider reaches in the 3rd and fourth round at the time.
I agree...I understand the point of not signing the wrong player or giving up too much money... Im just gettin worked up that there are big names out there. They arent FA's but they are out there.... no one can say Lance briggs, adalius thomas, and nate clements werent big names...All im sayin is with our cap room why cant we get someone....I know we dont need lb's but u see where im goin.
Yeah I see were you are going but also remember that big names mean big busts. Remeber GM Mike Sherman and how he tried over and over to make big F/A splashes that turned into belly flops.
The way TT works he minimizes the risk i.e front loaded contrats that provide outs if the the bust comes.
While I admit watching TT as an emotional fan is like watching concrete dry in a rainstorm it is a method and it is maddening.
I want more than anything to be able to look at this team and say wow look at that guy that we picked up.
Then however I look at it like this kind of like looking at a little baby you say huh how is that little child ever going to amount to something and then 18years later you are wiping the tears away from your eyes as the graduate high school and leave the house.
Making a winning team takes time and energy and it ****** me off when no quick fix is there. Look at the Patriots and how they were over the years never overspending and having superb drafts that allowed them to keep plugging guys in. I think that is were TT wants to go with all this.
I will say this TT will not survive anything worse than 9 and 6 this year with it being his third year it is his make or break phase. So I am sure he wants to win as bad as anyone.
1st round bust are still a hell of a lot cheaper than F/A busts in this market. Ok so say we went out and reached on Clements. 60 mil 8 years 18 mil gaurenteed. Now second week of training camp he breaks his leg.
Out 6-8 weeks. Comes back and gives you 3 picks but gets burned badly because his leg is not at equal stregth to his other. Now you still pay him his 9 mil regardless. Next year he comes out and is just average.
It is like this with anything you buy you assume risk.
Like buying a car.
Now I have a 2000 BMW 300ii with 250,000 miles Its actual value is 5,000 dollars but I will not take anything less that 15,000 because the BMW market is very thin.
I also have a 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan with 100mile. Its actual value is 25,000 but because the market is flooded with caravans I want 17,000.
So I ask you which is the better VALUE the vehicle that has the sex appeal or the vehicle that you know will get more use out of..
That is what this Market is right now. Over priced BMW's TT is waiting on that Grand Caravan.
porky88 said:refpacker said:Dude it was my post...I messed up when I said the FA market....AND NO NOT EVERYPLAYER IS AVAILABLE!!!!
THE PLAYERS I LISTED ARE EITHER FA's OR ON THE TRADING BLOCK..... Brett IS ON NEITHER SO HOW IS HE AVIALABLE....POINT is there are big names out there whether they be fa's or not...and we are doing nothing to get them .....WAKE UP... :comp:
It's not as simple as calling them up and signing them.
How about some facts. Such as the Packers have contacted the Raiders about Randy Moss. That sure seems like their doing something to get him.
Also you ignored what I asked about McGahee and Clements. Sure it's easy to say "Yeah let's go get them" but how about analyzing what it would take to get them.
For instance. Willis McGahee
The Packers would have to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick
The Packers would have to sign him to probably between 5 and 6 years worth 40 to 50 mil with 15 and 20 million up front.
Is he worth that?
Then Nate Clements. Looking at the contract he signed which is a cap killer down the road. Would you pay him that kind of money and then suffer the consequences down the road including financial problems and a possible unhappy tandem of Charles Woodson and Al Harris?
Then you act as if the market is completely gone. Plenty of talent left. Keep in mind Ryan Pickett was not signed unit a few weeks into free agency a year ago and Charles Woodson was signed a few days before the NFL Draft.
I get ur point man...Some are aking for too much money or too many picks...But what I dont understand is that we have soo much cap room we can afford it...Why not spend alittle...I mean are we saving all this money to signe 40 guys of mediocre or less talent...Lets bring in some big names, we are one of the only organizations who have the ability to do so .....
I mean this is what I dont understand so if you could explain it to me id be greatful....We have all this money...what are we waiting to do with it? Are we just goin to keep stock pilin it..The reason to have a big cap is to sign big guy...But when big guys want big money, we back away...Like is still dont get the javon thing..that was one of the biggest mistakes ive witnesses in the packers organization..
refpacker said:porky88 said:refpacker said:Dude it was my post...I messed up when I said the FA market....AND NO NOT EVERYPLAYER IS AVAILABLE!!!!
THE PLAYERS I LISTED ARE EITHER FA's OR ON THE TRADING BLOCK..... Brett IS ON NEITHER SO HOW IS HE AVIALABLE....POINT is there are big names out there whether they be fa's or not...and we are doing nothing to get them .....WAKE UP... :comp:
It's not as simple as calling them up and signing them.
How about some facts. Such as the Packers have contacted the Raiders about Randy Moss. That sure seems like their doing something to get him.
Also you ignored what I asked about McGahee and Clements. Sure it's easy to say "Yeah let's go get them" but how about analyzing what it would take to get them.
For instance. Willis McGahee
The Packers would have to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick
The Packers would have to sign him to probably between 5 and 6 years worth 40 to 50 mil with 15 and 20 million up front.
Is he worth that?
Then Nate Clements. Looking at the contract he signed which is a cap killer down the road. Would you pay him that kind of money and then suffer the consequences down the road including financial problems and a possible unhappy tandem of Charles Woodson and Al Harris?
Then you act as if the market is completely gone. Plenty of talent left. Keep in mind Ryan Pickett was not signed unit a few weeks into free agency a year ago and Charles Woodson was signed a few days before the NFL Draft.
I get ur point man...Some are aking for too much money or too many picks...But what I dont understand is that we have soo much cap room we can afford it...Why not spend alittle...I mean are we saving all this money to signe 40 guys of mediocre or less talent...Lets bring in some big names, we are one of the only organizations who have the ability to do so .....
I mean this is what I dont understand so if you could explain it to me id be greatful....We have all this money...what are we waiting to do with it? Are we just goin to keep stock pilin it..The reason to have a big cap is to sign big guy...But when big guys want big money, we back away...Like is still dont get the javon thing..that was one of the biggest mistakes ive witnesses in the packers organization..
I'm sorry but the reason to have money is not to sign big name guys. That's not how it works. You have to spend the money wisely to be successful in the NFL. You can't go out and spend on every big name player that comes across. Would it be nice to see a big name in Green and Gold next year? Certainly and it's still very likely that they do sign a big name player or acquire one via trade. However to over do it like your suggesting would lead to a path the Packers traveled during the Sherman era.
The title of this thread is very misleading. Here we go again? As I recall last year Green Bay signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett. I've disagreed with moves Ted Thompson has made in the past but Woodson was the best signing this decade for the Packers and Pickett paid great dividends as well. Woodson didn't sign until a few days before the Draft and Pickett several weeks after free agency started.
Farther more the money we have in our cap can be used to keep some of our guys. In the last year the Packers have held onto Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Al Harris, Cullen Jenkins, and Scott Wells. If we go out and sign several big name players it could backfire and leave Green Bay with very little money and players such as those could get away. The Packers would likely lose guys like Corey Williams and Nick Barnett next year. Do you want that? I hope not as they've been huge for this team. By spending money on 2nd tier free agents whom fit the system and signing a big name every once in a while it allows the Packers to have much more flexibility year in and year out and it's much easier to keep your own guys such as the names above.
There are still plenty of talent left on the market and Green Bay is in talks for Randy Moss and they've brought in Justin Griffith for a visit. You can’t denounce the franchise 5 days into the free agency period and this isn't baseball where you can buy a championship. In football you build one.
I'm sorry but the reason to have money is not to sign big name guys. That's not how it works. You have to spend the money wisely to be successful in the NFL. You can't go out and spend on every big name player that comes across. Would it be nice to see a big name in Green and Gold next year? Certainly and it's still very likely that they do sign a big name player or acquire one via trade. However to over do it like your suggesting would lead to a path the Packers traveled during the Sherman era.
The title of this thread is very misleading. Here we go again? As I recall last year Green Bay signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett. I've disagreed with moves Ted Thompson has made in the past but Woodson was the best signing this decade for the Packers and Pickett paid great dividends as well. Woodson didn't sign until a few days before the Draft and Pickett several weeks after free agency started.
Farther more the money we have in our cap can be used to keep some of our guys. In the last year the Packers have held onto Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Al Harris, Cullen Jenkins, and Scott Wells. If we go out and sign several big name players it could backfire and leave Green Bay with very little money and players such as those could get away. The Packers would likely lose guys like Corey Williams and Nick Barnett next year. Do you want that? I hope not as they've been huge for this team. By spending money on 2nd tier free agents whom fit the system and signing a big name every once in a while it allows the Packers to have much more flexibility year in and year out and it's much easier to keep your own guys such as the names above.
There are still plenty of talent left on the market and Green Bay is in talks for Randy Moss and they've brought in Justin Griffith for a visit. You can’t denounce the franchise 5 days into the free agency period and this isn't baseball where you can buy a championship. In football you build one.