Hello All

[Pacifus]

Hey guys. I've been a lurker for awhile, but with offseason news coming to a trickle, I figured I'd participate in discussion with some of the best fans I've ever known.

Now it may seem odd that I'm a Donkey and a Pack fan, but it's not that odd. We're in different conferences, they rarely play each other, and we both hope that Cutler throws 4 picks every game.

My wife is a Wisconsin girl and we moved here (Manitowoc first, now Madison) about 7 years ago, and I have learned to love this team. Hope I can gain some acceptance around here, and add some insight from a fresh perspective.

Peace,
Pacifus.

:chisux:

 

[Ghost of Billy Mays]

Welcome......How does SuperBowl XXXII sit with you? I would have to imagine you had the same kind of night as the rest of us, but I have to ask. Anywho, welcome and post often.

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

Welcome to the forum, Enjoy your stay and post often

 

[Pacifus]

Thanks guys. Unfortunately, I wasn't a Pack fan back in 98. Super Bowl XXXII was one of the best days of my football watching life when it happened. But were it to happen again this year, it would be a lot harder on me, however I would still have to support my orange and blue with 51% of my heart.

Don't get me wrong though, I love the Pack.

 

[ivo610]

welcome.

 

[PackersRS]

Welcome, man! I personally ain't too fond of the Broncos, for obvious reasons, but I respect you guys.

What's your opinion on McDaniels???

 

[Pacifus]

Good question.

I actually respect a lot of what he has done, and I think he deserves at least three years (more like 4 or 5) to implement what he wants to do. I think the Tebow pick showed some brass, but if you really look at it, we didn't give up a whole bunch to get him. As for the Cutler, and Marshall issues, I think those guys didn't want to be Broncos once Shanahan was gone; I think they were frustrated with trading shorts and hats for pads and helmets in OTAs and minicamps. They just didn't want to be in Denver, and there wasn't anything McD should have done to keep them there (i.e. telling Cutler that no matter what he would be the starting QB, I don't think anybody should get that kind of vote of confidence unless your name rhymes with Slaton Tanning (okay, possible exception for my favorite QB in the league A-Rodg).

Now no matter what people think of McD, it was time for Shanahan to go. He wanted to keep the worst DC in the league for another 3 seasons, made himself the de facto GM/HC, and was a terrible judge of Defensive talent. For all of the Dumerville's there was a Jarvis Moss -- and even his judge of offensive talent was average compared to the rest of the league (Ashley Lelie...really?).

I think the Broncos needed a reliable and steady GM, and a new regime. For better or worse, the Broncos have that. And I'm not saying McD is going to win anything, but with Shanny out the door, we're that much closer to our next SB (hopefully sometime within my lifetime).

That said, I think it's clear the Packers are closer to a SB than the Broncos, and I think that could happen sooner than fans of other teams realize.

 

[PackersRS]

Good question.

I actually respect a lot of what he has done, and I think he deserves at least three years (more like 4 or 5) to implement what he wants to do. I think the Tebow pick showed some brass, but if you really look at it, we didn't give up a whole bunch to get him. As for the Cutler, and Marshall issues, I think those guys didn't want to be Broncos once Shanahan was gone; I think they were frustrated with trading shorts and hats for pads and helmets in OTAs and minicamps. They just didn't want to be in Denver, and there wasn't anything McD should have done to keep them there (i.e. telling Cutler that no matter what he would be the starting QB, I don't think anybody should get that kind of vote of confidence unless your name rhymes with Slaton Tanning (okay, possible exception for my favorite QB in the league A-Rodg).

Now no matter what people think of McD, it was time for Shanahan to go. He wanted to keep the worst DC in the league for another 3 seasons, made himself the de facto GM/HC, and was a terrible judge of Defensive talent. For all of the Dumerville's there was a Jarvis Moss -- and even his judge of offensive talent was average compared to the rest of the league (Ashley Lelie...really?).

I think the Broncos needed a reliable and steady GM, and a new regime. For better or worse, the Broncos have that. And I'm not saying McD is going to win anything, but with Shanny out the door, we're that much closer to our next SB (hopefully sometime within my lifetime).

That said, I think it's clear the Packers are closer to a SB than the Broncos, and I think that could happen sooner than fans of other teams realize.

Good points.

I personally think McDaniels brought in an attitude that he hadn't earned. I just think it's one thing for Bellichick, a 3 time SB winner, to behave like that, and it's another for a 30 something year old first timer to do so. It's only natural that some players won't accept that imposed leadership...

The Cutler debacle was very badly mishandled, despite the fact that Cutler thought of himself much more than he actually was. But I really don't think Marshall left because of the coach. There were reports that he had lots of problems with the "thugs" in Denver, so he had to leave...

You're absolutely right. Shanahan ultimately became a "stats" coach. But, looking at it from a practical standpoint, the 08 and 09 seasons were essencially the same for the Broncos. A monstruous start, with a devastating finish...

 

[Pacifus]

Good points.
I personally think McDaniels brought in an attitude that he hadn't earned. I just think it's one thing for Bellichick, a 3 time SB winner, to behave like that, and it's another for a 30 something year old first timer to do so. It's only natural that some players won't accept that imposed leadership...

My thinking on this (and it's common on the Denver boards as well) is that Belichick didn't develop that attitude after the SBs, I think it's something he's lived by his whole life, and I don't think McD developed the attitude either, like with BB, it's something that you have.

Otherwise, I agree with your other points.

Watch Shanahan in DC, it's going to be another couple of years at .500. Maybe a 9-7 season, but he's done winning super bowls.

 

[PackersRS]

My thinking on this (and it's common on the Denver boards as well) is that Belichick didn't develop that attitude after the SBs, I think it's something he's lived by his whole life, and I don't think McD developed the attitude either, like with BB, it's something that you have.

Otherwise, I agree with your other points.

Watch Shanahan in DC, it's going to be another couple of years at .500. Maybe a 9-7 season, but he's done winning super bowls.

You may be right... He did fail in Cleveland before achieving sucess in NE, if I'm not mistaken...

And about DC, I think their team has too many holes right now for anyone to say anything about Shanahan's work. When the Packers had lost to TB, and everyone was clamoring for a new HC (including myself), I didn't want Shanahan. But he's a clear improvement from Jim Zorn. Yeah, I know, not a difficult task, but still.

I think he had clearly lost his passion in Denver, the way I though Holmgren did in Seattle. But I wouldn't dismiss him in a new scenario as soon as that... The knowledge of how to suceed is still there...

 

[Pacifus]

You could be right, for sure. A change of scenery can do wonders for somebody in terms of drive and passion. But this could also be an issue of the game just passing him by. This year will not tell us all we need to know (not by a long shot), but it's going to tell us a lot.