He WANTS to come back!!!

[tromadz]

of course there was SOME money...

im gonna go explain this to some toddlers, theyd understand it better than you, pyle.

 

[arrowgargantuan]

grrrrr...

 

[pyledriver80]

Well, Trom, before you resort to your usual "Toddler" name-calling be sure to thoroughly read the entire post and whom it was posted by. You see, the SOME money comment was posted by All about da Packers not me.

If you would have read the post he pointed out another MAJOR GB Signing in Matt O'Dwyer. Yes, that Matt O'Dwyer who played in EXACTLY 0 games for us last year even though we signed him to a 735,000 contract.

So now just to Recap, TT made the major signings last year of

Earl Little - 4 Games played
Arturo Freeman - 0
Matt O'Dwyer - 0
Thompson - Ray, not your buddy Ted - 0
David Martin - 12 VERY PRODUCTIVE Games!

Now lets toss in O'Dwyers 735,000 bucks and we are, by golly, approaching 4 MILLION DOLLARS!

Now, 4 Mil. sounds like a little more than SOME or NO money to me. I would venture to say that we could have gotten a little more bang for our buck from ol' TT. Hell, we could have got an impact player for that but no we got David Martin.

Its like the local crackhead down the street. She doesn't have much money but what she does have she spends on Crack, which only further enhances her problem.

I think TT has done a decent job this year but to defend his dismal off-season last year is laughable.

Now, I am asking politely for you to comment on TT's signings last year. Please respond to that question first after which I will give you my address and you can write down all your "Toddler" remarks and we can keep this board from getting locked up again.

 

[SuperRat]

So what do you think TT should of done last offseason then? It is very easy to criticize something after the fact and assume that they could of gotten somebody else with the money they used on those players. It is pretty much the same as criticizing Green Bay for choosing Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders. Easy to criticize after the fact but understandable at the time. TT was up against a very tight salary cap and he did what he could. Could somebody else of done better with the same situation? Perhaps but that isn't possible to tell.

 

[PackerLegend]

You forgot Donald Lee, who I think is pretty good and will break out even more then last year and run over some people.

And you forgot Rod Gardner who I also think is going to step up and return putting up his 2002 season numbers with the Skins where he racked up 1006 yards and he had 741 as a rookie

Did Javon get 741 yards as a rookie not even half 319

Not picked up in the offseason but later TT was Thinking

 

[longtimefan]

So what do you think TT should of done last offseason then? It is very easy to criticize something after the fact and assume that they could of gotten somebody else with the money they used on those players. It is pretty much the same as criticizing Green Bay for choosing Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders. Easy to criticize after the fact but understandable at the time. TT was up against a very tight salary cap and he did what he could. Could somebody else of done better with the same situation? Perhaps but that isn't possible to tell.

I agree, and at the time TT did not have money to work with until he did not re-sign Mike, Marco and Darren...

Say he did grab that "one big name player" with the money he spent on the others...Then the guy doesn't pan out..People would be bashing him for that...Along with Sherman and the other office brass, TT did what was best for them at the TIME...

I keep saying it time and time again...We have no clue if they call agents to inquire about a player and only to find out the starting price is to high for them to even consider...But because it isn't reported in the press, people feel they are doing nothing...

 

[pyledriver80]

Hey, I am not a TT hater at all. I am not trying to rip TT but it was an awful off-season. I am not going to listen to someone say TT did a good job last year because this is simply not true.

Tro wants to act like we had no money, and I simply wanted to point out with that "No Money" we blew 4 Million on guys that were total and complete disasters.

Donald Lee was a good signing.I like the guy and he produced in a system that rarely used a TE anymore.

Gardner I like, but until he really produces for more than 3-4 games the jury is still out. He was up and down in Washington as well. I hope he gets his head into the game and learns to play at a high level game in and game out.

The fact is last years off-season was HORRIBLE. To BLOW 4 million on guys like ODwyer and Freeman was not a good move. I don't get paid to be the GM of a team, all I do is call it like I see it and last years signings were ASTROCIOUS

 

[pyledriver80]

I am not playing Monday Morning QB here. But in hindsight I would think that last years moves were mediocre at best. It's going to happen but to say, knowing what we know now, that TT did a good job last year is crazy

 

[all about da packers]

Now, 4 Mil. sounds like a little more than SOME or NO money to me. I would venture to say that we could have gotten a little more bang for our buck from ol' TT. Hell, we could have got an impact player for that but no we got David Martin.

Please don't take this as an attack, but there are a few mispoints in your post.

First of all, contracts like O'Dwyer were the veteran minimum, so when he got cut, I believe the cap hit wasn't the entire contract, rather a chucnk of it. Furthermore, the contracts became guranteed ONLY if the players made the roster, or by a certain date. So when Thompson got cut, his contract wasn't guranteed and thus the Packers didn't have to take the full hit. If I recall correctly, that is how it played out. But I could be wrong. The fact that the players contract numbers released where big does not always make it true, because the thing is that the numbers are very often bloated, and the terms pertaining to the numbers reveal the real story.

Secondly, you say 4 million is big money. Well the thing is, I think if TT had that 4 million dollars back last year, he would only use about 2 million of it. That is because we need to save money in case we get injuries and need to sign players, or decide to extend contracts. This money is essential, especially for finding bodies for injured players, otherwise you will have a team like the Titans of a couple years back, where they had no money left to sign anyone to replace their injured players in week 15, 16, 17.

So while 4 million seems like a lot of money, there are many things that exagurate that figure. In the end, I believe Thompson would have spent about a little under 3 million if he kept O'Dwyer and Thompson. But that means TT would have cut other players, so we still would have gained some room, but nothing as much as cutting these dead weight players.

 

[longtimefan]

I know it was reported at the time that Matt O'Dwyer got like $750K? but it ended up being much less...

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=362517

Posted Oct 11th 2005

Meanwhile, two veteran offensive linemen who were cut in August, tackle Brennan Curtin and guard Matt O'Dwyer, filed grievances that the club is contesting. Curtin is seeking his full base salary of $380,000 and O'Dwyer wants $205,000. Barring settlements, the grievances could take more than six months to be heard.

Under the collective bargaining agreement, the Packers must count 50% of each grievance against their cap, or a total of $292,500, until they're decided through arbitration.

What had been a fairly rosy-looking cap surplus of $4.1 million just 10 days ago now is in the $2.5 million range after the developments with Hunt, Curtin and O'Dwyer. That will limit the Packers' financial wherewithal to give their upcoming free agents long-term contract extensions.

 

[all about da packers]

I am not playing Monday Morning QB here. But in hindsight I would think that last years moves were mediocre at best. It's going to happen but to say, knowing what we know now, that TT did a good job last year is crazy

Yup, that is for sure. I think perhaps part of the problem might have been TT was in way over his head his first year. He seems to have a better handle on things now, which can only mean good things.

 

[longtimefan]

I am not playing Monday Morning QB here. But in hindsight I would think that last years moves were mediocre at best. It's going to happen but to say, knowing what we know now, that TT did a good job last year is crazy

Yup, that is for sure. I think perhaps part of the problem might have been TT was in way over his head his first year. He seems to have a better handle on things now, which can only mean good things.

I would not say it was a GREAT job, or say it was horrible...Just okay...

 

[all about da packers]

I am not playing Monday Morning QB here. But in hindsight I would think that last years moves were mediocre at best. It's going to happen but to say, knowing what we know now, that TT did a good job last year is crazy

Yup, that is for sure. I think perhaps part of the problem might have been TT was in way over his head his first year. He seems to have a better handle on things now, which can only mean good things.

I would not say it was a GREAT job, or say it was horrible...Just okay...

Yeah I think both you and pyle are saying it was a medicore job at best. The fact is TT had success with the draft, a few good finds, but he failed to get the talent to give our coaches a fighting chance, and failed to fix some holes such as the Guard quality. But no doubt this year he has stepped up, and looked more in control and made some solid choices. Funny what a year and a boat load of cap space can do....

 

[pyledriver80]

All about Da Packers, I understand that. I am not trying to say that we LOST 4 million on these guys. But we had the money tied up in them that we COULD have used to lure in perhaps more productive FA's.

The money LOST was substantially less than 4 million but had they never been signed in the first place, we would have had the total sum of thier contracts to pursue perhaps better players.

Honestly to have had to pay anything to these guys is a waste of money. Signing 3 FA's and getting NO games out of them is unacceptable. 1 can happen but 2 and 3 is like pissing cash down a drain.

I just cannot fathom anyone saying TT did a good job last year, and the little money argument does not make it any better.

I agree that TT was in over his head last year and I think he has done a substantially better job this year, but only time will tell.

 

[pyledriver80]

Mediocre is generous

 

[all about da packers]

Honestly to have had to pay anything to these guys is a waste of money. Signing 3 FA's and getting NO games out of them is unacceptable. 1 can happen but 2 and 3 is like pissing cash down a drain.

You make a valid point. The thing is that I believe TT might not have had a good read on the type of players needed for Bates D. Same goes for MS's offense. Whether it was a communications breakdown, TT being in over his head, or a combination of many things, the fact is that it is not right to state last years offseason as being "great".

 

[longtimefan]

You forget, if TT would have went for the one big name player, would there have been the money to lock up Bubba, sign Lee, Gardner Gado?

 

[all about da packers]

You forget, if TT would have went for the one big name player, would there have been the money to lock up Bubba, sign Lee, Gardner Gado?

Well I think it wouldn't have made a difference. By the time TT actually got us under the cap, most of the FA's that were classified as the top FA's of the class had gone. It was not really possible or real to expect TT to make a serious run at a player with about 2 million dollars of cap space. It would have taken some HUGE bonus payments to get a big name player in here for the season, and I don't think TT was anywhere near ready for that.

 

[longtimefan]

I agree, that is sort of what I was getting at...

Barely had $3 million after letting the big 3 go last year, and seems to me he wanted to lock up Bubba that is why it seemed he was "stringy" with the cap...

But if he would have spent what ever he had gained right away on one player, all those others signed in the middle of season would not have been possible..

Or is my thinking wrong?

 

[pyledriver80]

I also did not figure Gado,Gardner,Lee,Etc into the 4 Million figure. The 4 million was what we had wrapped up in O'Dwyer,Little,Thompson,Etc.

We could have had Lee,Gardner, etc PLUS an additional Guy or 2. To have 4 Mil. wrapped up in guys that gave us 16 total games between 5 guys is pathetic.

Lee was signed right before the season started,Gado was signed half way through, and Gardner at the end. If it had not been for injuries Gado and Gardner would have probably never been givin the chance.

Regardless of how MUCH money we had it was managed VERY POORLY!

 

[pyledriver80]

We are on different pages here. Throw out Gardner,Gado and Lee.

At the beginning of the year we had 4 million in POSSIBLE money to be paid to 5 guys O'Dwyer,Little,Freeman,Thompson and resigning Martin. The number is less than 4 Mil. because 3 of them never made the team.

BUT......At the time we had the money wrapped up in these guys thus making it impossible for us to sign anyone else. That's money we could have been spent on better quality players. I am not saying we should have got 1 guy or 5 different guys, I am saying the guys we brought in were mediocre.

Tro made it sound like it was impossible to bring in anyone of any quality because we had no money. The fact is we had 4 million that was managed very poorly.

 

[longtimefan]

I also did not figure Gado,Gardner,Lee,Etc into the 4 Million figure. The 4 million was what we had wrapped up in O'Dwyer,Little,Thompson,Etc.

We could have had Lee,Gardner, etc PLUS an additional Guy or 2. To have 4 Mil. wrapped up in guys that gave us 16 total games between 5 guys is pathetic.

Lee was signed right before the season started,Gado was signed half way through, and Gardner at the end. If it had not been for injuries Gado and Gardner would have probably never been givin the chance.

Regardless of how MUCH money we had it was managed VERY POORLY!

I see your point, why bother signing those players when they were cut, could have got some one who could have done something...

That is the problem though...You never know if they would have turned out or not..

I think a majority of fans had complete faith in our o-l coach last year...and I think it is safe to say that Larry had to have some input on O'Dwyer...

Going into last season I can say honestly I was not worried to much aobut the offense..I had complete faith in Larry and his staff to field the best possible players for the line...I expected some drop off , but not like what had happened..

 

[pyledriver80]

I am in agreement with you. TT gambled and lost. The fact remains however, that he lost. So far his track record with GB is dismal at best based on last year. I think he has done much better this year but who knows. I don't get paid the money TT does. Its his job to build a team, and our right as fans to critique his performance. We only have one year to go on and so far its been hideous. Just don't say TT is not to blame for last year because he had little money to spend, because he pissed a good portion of what little we did have on players that contributed NOTHING to this team

 

[longtimefan]

Like I said b4....They barley had $3 million after letting go Marco, Mike and Darren..

I think your idea for last year makes sense, but much more thought had to be put into it all and not just sign one big guy...

They had FA on the team that they were trying to keep as well...I.E. Kampman had a deal almost with the Viks, so they used cap for him..

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

"Wahle, who turns 28 this month, signed a five-year deal worth up to $28 million that includes $11.5 million in bonus money split between this year and next. His cap figure for this year will be $2.7 million."

I was curious what it cost The Panthers last year so I googled Wahle, this from an article about the signing.

With the money we had, looks like we could have got a deal done with Wahle, if TT really wanted to, but it didn't happen.