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Havel Article

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by digsthepack, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Does anyone have acess to the Press Gazette premium section that they could link or copy/paste the Chris Havel article?

    Much appreciated.
     
  2. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Here goes (quite frankly a lot of this is stupid. I remember hearing Havel singing the praises of Mike Sherman during the midst of the 6 game winning streak last season but if you can't switch your opinions at the drop of a hat, what kind of a sports reporter would you be?)

    From the Green Bay Press Gazette Online

    Posted Dec. 28, 2005

    Chris Havel
    It’s time to fire ‘ordinary’ Sherman

    There are many reasons to retain Green Bay Packers coach Mike Sherman. None is as compelling as one reason to replace him.

    He isn’t special.

    While Sherman is an above-average NFL coach in the days leading up to kickoff, he is painfully ordinary once the game is afoot and its outcome hangs in the balance. When the heat is searing, the lights are blinding and the pressure is excruciating, Sherman tends to melt, blink and ultimately crumble under the magnitude of the moment.

    The Packers aren’t 3-12 because of injuries and a dearth of talent. They are 3-12 because they led against Minnesota (twice), Chicago and Philadelphia but failed to win even one of those games. They weren’t overmatched. They were outcoached.

    Whatever edge Sherman might give his team going into a game is neutralized and eventually erased during it. Sherman may be game, but he isn’t a gamer.

    Forget this season

    Some fans say he deserves a chance to coach the Packers next season because injuries ruined any chance the team had this season. What about the previous two seasons when the Packers were as healthy as any team in the NFL? What about the fact Sherman couldn’t advance his team deep into the postseason when just about every twist of fate went in his favor? What about the fans that had to endure the disaster that was fourth-and-26? What about the players that had to grin and bear it after fourth-and-1?

    They deserve better.

    The Packers have been in gradual, steady decline the past three seasons. The injuries to Javon Walker, Ahman Green and Bubba Franks, plus the loss of guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera, simply exposed Sherman’s shortcomings.

    There is no guarantee the Packers will be significantly healthier next season. Then what? Sherman should be given another chance to muddle through the 2007 season?

    He lacks creativity, imagination and the ability to think on his feet. He is analytical to the point of absurdity. While he wrestles with such basic decisions as whether to kick off or attempt an onside kick, whether to try a 2-point conversion or kick the extra point or whether to run or pass, Joe Six-Pack has figured it out between gulps.

    Loyal to a fault

    Sherman’s lack of any meaningful commitment to the running game has been a problem throughout his six-year tenure. I admire his unfailing loyalty to offensive coordinator Tom Rossley, but not as much as I loathe it.

    When he fired Ed Donatell, he fired the wrong coordinator. When he hired Bob Slowik, he didn’t get the best man for the job. He got a “yes manâ€
     
  3. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I think this is a fair analogy of MS...whether Havel has changed opinion on MS is irrelavent..the reality is that all the points Havel has brought up are no mirage, but the reality of this team over the last several seasons.

    The one area I guess may be misconstrued is when he suggests TR has never had a "meaningful committment to the running game". When you look at all the yards Ahman ripped off over the laast 4 seasons prior to injury, it is easy to say he is wrong. The way I take it is that the running game disappears at the most inopportune moments..hey, in the 4th and 26 game the Eagles were gassed and we were running the ball aat will, but when it mattered most on 4th and 1, TR/MS overanalyze the situation and punt...a decision I say was directly rersponsible for that ugly loss.

    We were running the ball at will against the Bears in the first game but inexplicably abandoned it in the second half because...gasp....we were down by one score for much of that half! I think this is what Havel was getting at.
     
  4. PACKATTACK4

    PACKATTACK4 Cheesehead

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    Sherman's Coaching Resume
    83-84 Off Line Tulane
    85-87 Off Line Holy Cross
    88 OC Holy Cross
    89-93 Off Line Tex A&M
    94 Off Line UCLA
    95-96 Off Line Tex A&M
    97-98 TE, Assist. off line GB
    99 OC/TE Sea
    2000 HC GB
    2001 HC/GM GB

    Rosley's Coaching Resume
    76 Off Asst. Rice
    77 WR Cinn.
    78-81 Passing Game Cord. Rice
    82-84 RB/WR Mont. CFL
    85 OC San Ant. USFL
    86-87 OC Holy Cross
    87 Off Asst. Den Dyn. Arena
    88-89 OC SMU
    90 QB Atl NFL
    91-96 HC SMU
    97 WR Chi NFL
    98 Te Chi
    99 QB KC
    2000-05 OC GB






    LOOK AT THIS!!!!!!!!!! Tell me one good team these guys ever coached. How did they end up coaching a team like GB? They are together linked from their days at the powerhouse Holy Cross 85-87 where they ran the run and shoot offense (or as Buddy Ryan calls it, The Chuck And Duck). Rosely calls plays like it's the chuck and duck days of the USFL or arena football. He also has the link to being Forest Gregg's coach at SMU another good bloodline. Sherman's claim to fame was being Holmgren's OC for one year. Being Holmgren's Oc is just a title, he calls all the plays, the Oc sits in the booth and let's Holmgren know what he sees from up there. Remember Sherm Lewis, he was Holmgren's OC in GB for a while, what happened to him when he left the Holmgren ambilicle cord? The Pack needs some Crediblity and NFL experience from the TOP DOWN.
     
  5. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    The other thing I really disagree with is Donatell. The mistake was not firing Donatell, but rather, it was replacing him with Slowik. I also don't agree that injuries should be completely ignored. Even everyone's fair-haired coaching boy, Bill Belichik, was not able to overcome injuries. The 2-time defending Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots looked pretty ordinary during the middle of the season when their key playmakers were injured.

    I'm not sure what to think of Sherman. I'm not sure he's the guy to get us to the Super Bowl, but I do think we could do a lot worse for a head coach and I don't see that special guy out there who's going to do it (unless Jimmy Johnson is going to leave the Keys to come to Green Bay).
     
  6. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    "He isn't special"

    Corky IS special. Maybe Havel wants to hire him.
     
  7. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Good one DePack! I always did like the show "Life Goes On".

    TOP, you hit the nail on the head when you suggested that MS may not be the guy to take us to the SB. If in fact that is the case, a team must take the CALCULATED RISK that is necessary to change that situation. The game is played for Super Bowls...if the coach you have displays the inability to get you there, you have to make change....no guarantees, but to do otherwise is to tread water...and eventually , with no help in sight, a team treading water will simply go under with one last dying GASP.
     
  8. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    Digs, I have been saying that for a long time, changing the HC is not a SB win guarantee, no way, but there are times in life in which you MUST TAKE THE RISK of change in order to become better, there are no guarantees in change, BUT as I see things there is a guarantee that we will not get to the SB, not to talk about winning a SB, under Mike Shermans coaching... Specially if he keeps Rossley there..

    I am now at the point in which I will accept Sherman for one more year ONLY if he fires Rossley and replaces him with a good coordinator, someone with balls, also I think that replacing Bonamego is a MUST.
     
  9. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Chamuko..digs..

    I have been saying this for..what..5..6 years now?

    I think that Sherman is a lame duck NOW..and that only Favre can save him!
     
  10. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    yea...5-6 years. No it only seems that long. Nobody was calling for his head the first 3 years. If you were then it really is personal.
     
  11. net

    net Cheesehead

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    It reminds me of the Packers who replaced the unspecial Phil Bengston with the special Dan Devine replaced by the special Bart Starr replaced by the special Forrest Gregg replaced by the special Lindy Infante.

    Ron Wolf got lucky with Holmgren, but then replaced him with the special Ray Rhodes.

    The lineage after Lambeau also proved the special Blackbourn, Ronzani, McClean grouping.

    What the Packers history should reveal is that SPECIAL coaches only come around every so often. Where is the SPECIAL coach Havel thinks is just out there waiting?
     
  12. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Yeah...well, net...the problems that the Packers created with that scenario is akin to Appalachian hillbillies...they didn't explore outside their own gene pool.

    They just recycled familiar, comfortable faces. Look at the quality coaches that have been hired in recent years: John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Marvin Lewis, Romeo Crennel, Lovie Smith, Mike Tice (kidding!).

    The fact remains that qualified candidates are out there...you just have to do your homework.

    Two guys to keep an eye out for in the coming years: Eric Mangini, DC Patriots, Ron Rivera, DC Bears.

    I can understand your defending Sherman, but you have to have better points than those being offered. Your only option seems to be asking, "who out there is better". Well, we will never know until we explore that avenue, but to remain pat assures us of average seasons with an average coach.

    Net, if you consider Sherman to be at least marginally above-average, please explain to me his failure to use one of THE most potent offenses in the league to maximum benefit back in 2002 - 2004. He knew the defense was weak, but did not uncork his offense to offset that weakness. How about his exceptional record of picking coordinators...especially defensive coordinators? Third time is apparently the charm with Bates. Picking a staff is one of THE most critical aspects of being a HC, and it is something that MS has continually struggled with. There is more, but you get the drift.

    If you wish to cite his record, please do not be incomplete and ignore his playoff record...which to me is more telling of the coach.

    Face it, the guy is the Daunte Culpepper of coaching....great between the 20s, but for **** in the red zone. Sherman wilts under the pressure of the big moment...his COMPLETE record speaks to this fact.
     
  13. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    digs..
    i love you man..couldn't said it better...myself...

    and yes DePack..

    I HAVE been calling for SherRossley's Head for 5-6 years now....but then..my voice was almost the lone one crying in the wilderness...now it's developing into a chorus...

    (I saw all of those horrible qualities in Sherman back then in the first year when Wolf hired him...and I could not BELIEVE IT when HARLAN promoted him to GM...especially after they ran Holmgren out of town for wanting the same thing..!!)
     
  14. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    digs..."Appalachian Hillbillies"?....can I use that?

    Why would you want to get rid of Sherman after he finally got it right, with respect to the DC. Do we want to break someone new in where "the third time may also be the charm"?

    Here is my true feelings on Sherman. He should be retained. Nobody should be fired after 5 winning seasons just because of one injurry riddled bad season, unless he loses the locker room, which he clearly has not done. I do feel that our entire offensive playbook has been used for too long and needs to be completely redone. If TT thinks getting rid of Sherman is the only way to do that then so be it. He had better get with Favre though and clear things up with him first. I know this doesn't go over well with you "old school" fans but Brett is a special case. The last thing TT wants to happen is to have Favre say at his retirement speech that he would have loved to stay on another year or so, take a shot at another title but didn't want to go through the learning curve of a new coach.

    I don't care what any fan publicly says, we would all love to see Favre stick around long enough to break every one of Marino's records. Especially TD passes which he is 24 behind and can get next season. If TT is seen as the guy that forced Favre into retirement, he will never be forgiven.
     
  15. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Feel free to use at your discretion, DePack. Look, I am no fan of Sherman's...but the ONLY way I would accept him back is with the caveat that he replace TR and Bonamego. Personally, I think he will walk rather than can his buds. Like someone said earlier....when a chick busy in the kitchen knows what play is coming, so does the opponent....the offense is stale and predictable as all hell.

    TR has abandoned the run so much as to be embarrassing. I mean, you two chucklefucks re-tooled the team to be a power run offense, and then give up on the run at every turn. Sheer idiocy!!
     
  16. net

    net Cheesehead

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    I still think all of you wanting Sherman's head will be:

    1)Upset when it doesn't happen next week
    2)Pissed off for another year when all you need do is realize the 'system' finally caught up to the Packers, whether Sherman was the coach or not.

    Pack66: you've been calling for Sherman's head for all that time for the wrong reasons and nothing has changed.

    One more time: change isn't always good. Using your rather twisted logic, Sherman was a change from Rhodes and according to you folks, he failed so you change again?
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    net, I am completely aware of "the system" and how it works...we were poised for a downturn.

    That being said, I do not know that "the system":
    a. runs a crappy but stat rich offense
    b. continues to bungle important game decisions
    c. employs coaches on the longevity of their friendship not on their skills
    d. retains failures because they are friends (Novak, Rossley)
    e. loses playoff games with regularity for failing to understand the moment and respond accordingly.

    Other than that, the guy is a peach as a coach.
     
  18. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Yeah..well what do you expect digs..

    SherRossley was the guy who thought up the Red Gun..Run & Shoot powerful offense in Atlanta that rocketed Jeff George to fame...
     
  19. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I used to think we should maybe keep Sherman another year because of the thought 'whos better?' thinking more into it, wouldn't that mean you're settling? I'd rather can his ***, bump up Bates to HC, talk mariucci into being our OC and let Bates elevate someone to DC. I think this scenario is the best bet for the Packers. Then again I'm jus some guy sitting in his boxers posting on a Packers forum waiting for my Pizza to get done.
     

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