Harris might hold out, but do you care?

[4thand26]

net....the fact that teams do not honor contracts is more than offset by the fact that there is so much "up front" money in the contracts that the low average in the final years is not truly representative of the compensation as a whole.

I have no problem with how Al Harris is handling his business at this point, but the minute he holds out is when my opinion changes. Look at our roster! It is littered with guys who have been rewarded for hard work with hefty contracts...many from very humble starts in the league (Tauscher comes to mind). The Packers have a long history of taking care of their core guys. For a player or agent to say or imply otherwise is pure b.s.

If a player doesn't hold out, what bargaining chip does he have to say that he is underpaid? I don't think that going to the GM and saying that my feelings are hurt will get him the payday. Players union is way to strong.

 

[DePack]

net....the fact that teams do not honor contracts is more than offset by the fact that there is so much "up front" money in the contracts that the low average in the final years is not truly representative of the compensation as a whole.

I have no problem with how Al Harris is handling his business at this point, but the minute he holds out is when my opinion changes. Look at our roster! It is littered with guys who have been rewarded for hard work with hefty contracts...many from very humble starts in the league (Tauscher comes to mind). The Packers have a long history of taking care of their core guys. For a player or agent to say or imply otherwise is pure b.s.

If a player doesn't hold out, what bargaining chip does he have to say that he is underpaid? I don't think that going to the GM and saying that my feelings are hurt will get him the payday. Players union is way to strong.

If you feel you are underpaid then fire your f'ing agent and cut off your signing hand, because they are the only ones to blame.

 

[4packgirl]

Cheesey,

I have a major problem as a high school principal reading your earlier post about school systems and how they treat children. Having worked in public education for the last decade, I see a far different visual of what is happening.

I see parents who will come in my office and try and cover up their child's behavior time and time again. A lot of this so-called "false self worth" comes from home - not schools!

In my opinion, the true underlying situation is that a lot of these athletes are coming from poverty as a child and making it to the upper class without ever experiencing the middle of the road. I think we would all agree that it is much more difficult to make that lifestyle change. These athletes do not know how to live and make proper decisions with their money and therefore may become "spoiled brats" as you state it.

Anyway, just my opinion and with my belief in the educational system, I had to comment on it...

ND.....i don't know if you read my post on page one (it's the last post on the page). I didn't mean to blame the schools. (Sometimes it's hard to make a point understandable when you arn't face to face) The schools have their hands tied today, because of the "P.C." world we live in. Teachers can't discipline the kids if they act up, and alot of them don't get it at home either (as 4pack said). So there is NO guidance, or rules set down for these kids to learn to follow. I had a friend that taught public school in Milwaukee, and he was SO frustrated on how the kids could pretty much do what they wanted.
When i was a kid, if you acted up in school, you FEARED what would happen to you. There were consequences to your actions. Today, the worse they get is a "time out", which is no punishment at all.
I agree that alot of these atheletes don't know HOW to act, as they go from poor to instant rich. But that still boils down to what 4pack said, that it begins with the parents. Class and respect can be taught to poor kids too. My Mom came from a dirt poor family, and i mean POOR. She had to eat lard sandwiches, and that was all she got. I'm not kidding. But she still knew right from wrong, and instilled that into me.
You can have class AND be poor. These rich guys should have learned that long ago from their parents.

This has less to do with the topic than a political forum. By the way, Al Harris has been exemplary to this point. He has shut his mouth, played with what was given him and has done well. This isn't college and this is the United States. You have a right to tell your employer you think you need a raise, whether the boss or anyone else thinks you do. The only difference in this request is it becomes global.

come ON - a contract is a contract - period!!

 

[DakotaT]

I pose a question to people about the contracts football players sign. They all want the guaranteed money up front, which is understandable, but if the contract is for 4 years or more, why aren't there more incentives in place for the athlete to make more money if his plays warrants? Conversely, there should be consequences for poor play as well, please see Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt for examples.

I have no problem giving Al a bonus, but I do have a problem extending his contract out past 2008 because he is getting older and slower, and I don't believe he is a player that could be moved to safety. He is a little light in pants for my taste to be asked to lay the wood out there.

 

[longtimefan]

Dakota brings up a good point..

Lot of players get bonuses such as that, and I am not sure what type of bonuses Al is suppose to get..But I found this when he signed in 2004

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/7670932

Harris refused to call it ironic that he got the big boost in pay that McKenzie has been angling for by staying away all off-season and threatening to retire if he's not traded.

"Honestly, I haven't been thinking about any contract stuff," Harris said. "Just going out and playing. You know what I mean? Because your play really dictates what happens on the business part of it."



You can say he has a contract and needs to honor it, but like someone said the team can cut him at any point they want...

IMO that is the chance they take when they sign the contract and should just wait it out...If they manage their up front money correctly they can use that to live on for a long time...Not to mention if they do get hurt they can collect workers comp...Wont be as much as they make at the time they were playing, but it is still enough to live off of..

EVERYTEAM is to blame for this type of stuff...They should ALL make a stand and not back down...I have thought about this since last year..I would like EVERY team not cave in, and agree, not in writing but sort of a hand shake type thing and not give players money they are looking for if they still have a contract left.....

But that is flawed..

There will always be a team willing to do what ever it takes to get a player they feel will put them over the edge so to speak...Even if all the teams have an unwritten rule..


The NFL is in a spot where they are allowing things like this to happen...I would have liked to see a new deal in place with the players union that no player can ATTEMPT to make a new deal unless his contract is at least 50% over or something similar...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Dakota brings up a good point..

Lot of players get bonuses such as that, and I am not sure what type of bonuses Al is suppose to get..But I found this when he signed in 2004

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/7670932

Harris refused to call it ironic that he got the big boost in pay that McKenzie has been angling for by staying away all off-season and threatening to retire if he's not traded.

"Honestly, I haven't been thinking about any contract stuff," Harris said. "Just going out and playing. You know what I mean? Because your play really dictates what happens on the business part of it."



You can say he has a contract and needs to honor it, but like someone said the team can cut him at any point they want...

IMO that is the chance they take when they sign the contract and should just wait it out...If they manage their up front money correctly they can use that to live on for a long time...Not to mention if they do get hurt they can collect workers comp...Wont be as much as they make at the time they were playing, but it is still enough to live off of..

EVERYTEAM is to blame for this type of stuff...They should ALL make a stand and not back down...I have thought about this since last year..I would like EVERY team not cave in, and agree, not in writing but sort of a hand shake type thing and not give players money they are looking for if they still have a contract left.....

But that is flawed..

There will always be a team willing to do what ever it takes to get a player they feel will put them over the edge so to speak...Even if all the teams have an unwritten rule..


The NFL is in a spot where they are allowing things like this to happen...I would have liked to see a new deal in place with the players union that no player can ATTEMPT to make a new deal unless his contract is at least 50% over or something similar...

The major problem, and you pointed it out, is that there is always a team willing to pay these players. TO cried and he got his big payday. Walker cried and is looked toward a big payday.

Players see this and they know that their career could be over with tomorrow just from practice. There is no time to wait for a big payday, they need to get as much as they can as quickly as possible because they could be cut or injured at anytime.

I can understand the players point to a degree, but everyone seems to want to renegotiate everytime a player who's about the same quality makes more money. Harris is definitely not suffering. His salary and roster bonus for this year alone = $2.5 million. Doesn't look like a bad deal to me. He's signed through 2009 though and he knows that if he doesn't force a new contract now, he will not be able to in the future. That is why I think he's taking advantage of the Woodson deal to rework his own.

 

[4packgirl]

huh? did i miss something? players can be cut at any time by a team & that's supposed to make it ok for the player NOT to honor their contract?? sorry but that doesn't hold water for me. i thought that if the team cuts a player who is under contract, they STILL have to pay them - am i wrong? now i'm cornfused!!!

 

[NDPackerFan]

Dakota brings up a good point..

Lot of players get bonuses such as that, and I am not sure what type of bonuses Al is suppose to get..But I found this when he signed in 2004

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/7670932

Harris refused to call it ironic that he got the big boost in pay that McKenzie has been angling for by staying away all off-season and threatening to retire if he's not traded.

"Honestly, I haven't been thinking about any contract stuff," Harris said. "Just going out and playing. You know what I mean? Because your play really dictates what happens on the business part of it."



You can say he has a contract and needs to honor it, but like someone said the team can cut him at any point they want...

IMO that is the chance they take when they sign the contract and should just wait it out...If they manage their up front money correctly they can use that to live on for a long time...Not to mention if they do get hurt they can collect workers comp...Wont be as much as they make at the time they were playing, but it is still enough to live off of..

EVERYTEAM is to blame for this type of stuff...They should ALL make a stand and not back down...I have thought about this since last year..I would like EVERY team not cave in, and agree, not in writing but sort of a hand shake type thing and not give players money they are looking for if they still have a contract left.....

But that is flawed..

There will always be a team willing to do what ever it takes to get a player they feel will put them over the edge so to speak...Even if all the teams have an unwritten rule..


The NFL is in a spot where they are allowing things like this to happen...I would have liked to see a new deal in place with the players union that no player can ATTEMPT to make a new deal unless his contract is at least 50% over or something similar...

The major problem, and you pointed it out, is that there is always a team willing to pay these players. TO cried and he got his big payday. Walker cried and is looked toward a big payday.

Players see this and they know that their career could be over with tomorrow just from practice. There is no time to wait for a big payday, they need to get as much as they can as quickly as possible because they could be cut or injured at anytime.

I can understand the players point to a degree, but everyone seems to want to renegotiate everytime a player who's about the same quality makes more money. Harris is definitely not suffering. His salary and roster bonus for this year alone = $2.5 million. Doesn't look like a bad deal to me. He's signed through 2009 though and he knows that if he doesn't force a new contract now, he will not be able to in the future. That is why I think he's taking advantage of the Woodson deal to rework his own.

Couldn't agree more...it's now or never for Al and he knows it.

 

[Greg C.]

It may be nice on a fantasy level to think of the Packers freezing out one of these players and forcing him to either honor his contract or retire. But in the real world, the player does have the power to screw things up pretty royally if he doesn't want to play.

Think of it this way: How many times in the history of the NFL has a player been forced to retire because the team he was signed with refused to either renegotiate his contract or trade him? I can't think of any. Tampa Bay forced Keyshawn Johnson to sit, and the Eagles did the same thing with Terrell Owens, and both players were rewarded the following year by getting the opportunity to play for the best coach in the league. Stuff like this drives fans like me crazy, but that's just the way it is.

 

[4thand26]

huh? did i miss something? players can be cut at any time by a team & that's supposed to make it ok for the player NOT to honor their contract?? sorry but that doesn't hold water for me. i thought that if the team cuts a player who is under contract, they STILL have to pay them - am i wrong? now i'm cornfused!!!

The signing bonus and roster bonus money that a player gets is the only guaranteed money in a football contract. The yearly money is not guaranteed. That is why the Packers cut Sharper last year. His yearly money was extremely high for 2005-2006, so the Packers cut him so that they did not have to pay him anything. That worked very well for GB, but not so well for Sharper. That is why players want the huge signing bonuses.

 

[4thand26]

The bottom line is that the players union has done a very good job for the players.

 

[4packgirl]

huh? did i miss something? players can be cut at any time by a team & that's supposed to make it ok for the player NOT to honor their contract?? sorry but that doesn't hold water for me. i thought that if the team cuts a player who is under contract, they STILL have to pay them - am i wrong? now i'm cornfused!!!

The signing bonus and roster bonus money that a player gets is the only guaranteed money in a football contract. The yearly money is not guaranteed. That is why the Packers cut Sharper last year. His yearly money was extremely high for 2005-2006, so the Packers cut him so that they did not have to pay him anything. That worked very well for GB, but not so well for Sharper. That is why players want the huge signing bonuses.

hey - thanks for the clarification, 4th!! who says bears fans suck?? oh yeah...i do!! :wink: :wink: :lol:

 

[jdlax]

An opponent's fan.....not saying Green Bay blew it big time by letting Sharper go? Well I'll be.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

An opponent's fan.....not saying Green Bay blew it big time by letting Sharper go? Well I'll be.

The sad part there is that GB asked Sharper to take a pay cut. His pride got the best of him and he signed for Minny for less than GB was offering.

In the end both sides lost on that deal, but Sharper's value did not match the amount he was going to get paid. Although he signed a contract, the team did not honor it.

Had Walker's injury last year been career ending, he would have been in a worse situation because he never got a new contract after his rookie deal. That is why he'd pushed for a trade. I definitely disagree with his tactics, but I can also appreciate his motivation. The shelf-life on most NFL players is only a few years, so they have to make the most of it.

 

[Anubis]

Think of it this way: How many times in the history of the NFL has a player been forced to retire because the team he was signed with refused to either renegotiate his contract or trade him?

Off the top of my head: Barry Sanders.

He wanted a trade, not more $$$ or a reworked contract. The Lions refused and he subsequently retired (in his prime, no less).

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley