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Harris might hold out, but do you care?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Bruce, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. Bruce

    Bruce Cheesehead

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    Rick Braun asks, Harris might hold out, but do you care?


    As we wait another two weeks until training camp opens, we once again get to play that guessing game.

    "Will (Fill in name) be there for the first day of camp?"

    This year's "Fill in name" is Al Harris.

    So will the unhappy cornerback be where he's supposed to be? Will he be on Clark Hinkle Field for the first workout? Will he show up for his physical? Will he be at the first meeting?

    These questions grip the Packer Nation again.

    In 2004 it was Mike McKenzie.

    In 2005 it was Javon Walker.

    In 2006 it's Harris.

    And we're left here with all these questions.

    And I've decided the answer is pretty simple.

    The answer is . . . I simply don't give a darn any more.

    Three consecutive years of petulance, and I've pretty much had it.

    Show up if you feel like it Al, don't show up if you don't feel like it. I couldn't care less.

    You're unhappy, I hear, because your contract doesn't quite match up to those of Aaron Kampman and Charles Woodson.

    Tough.

    You seemed pretty happy when you signed it back in 2004.

    Judging by your appearance on "MTV Cribs," you're obviously not wondering where your next meal is coming from or living in squalor.

    So somebody makes more money than you. Big deal. Call me when you have a real problem.

    Call me when you can't afford food for the family.

    Call me when the price of a tank of gas means you're only getting a quarter of a tank at a time.

    But don't go into a snit because someone else got a better contract than the one you yourself were only so happy to sign two years ago.

    The McKenzie snit ruined 2004 for the Packers. Remember that team, Al? It was the one that just missed going to the NFC championship game a year earlier. The team that Brett Favre pretty much said Super Bowl or bust about.

    Did you like having a chance at the Super Bowl wrecked by a crybaby?

    How about the 2005 team?

    Walker skipped all of the off-season programs and camps but showed up for training camp. Then, in a most-unfortunate occurrence he got hurt. Of course that all became management's fault and Walker got his wish and an under-valued ticket out of town.

    The only good part about all of that was he at least got rid of Drew Rosenhaus before he got his money from the Denver Broncos.

    But here we are in 2006, and now we've got to wonder about whether you'll be gracing us with your presence.

    And I'm tired of it.

    Go ahead and call it business.

    The funny part is, players always say it's business. Nothing personal, they're just looking out for themselves. Don't take their holdouts personally, the players always say.

    Then the team makes a business decision and players start popping out of the woodwork saying they're underpaid for this reason or that. Or the team doesn't care about them.

    Or - one of my favorites - it's not about the money but about respect.

    We all know it's always about the money.

    Never mind that fans have to spend $65 to sit in nose-bleed seats. The players believe there is an infinite supply of such suckers.

    In Green Bay, the waiting list for season tickets is miles long. Stand all those folks in a line, and we're not talking figuratively.

    But what if . . . what if . . . what if fans finally said they'd had enough?

    What if a different player crying about his contract every year finally made the majority of fans say they were done with it all?

    Yeah, that's living in a dream. Yeah, it's wishful thinking. Yeah, it's just not going to happen.

    But what if, just once, fans could send the message? How would they do it?

    We'll never find that out in Green Bay. With a team where folks take their vacations and travel from around the country just to stand outside the fence of a practice field, we're never going to find out what could happen if the fans decided to spend their money elsewhere.

    And we're not even suggesting that they do that in this space. But what if?

    What if every-year holdouts were enough to send the folks elsewhere?

    The Packers will never find that out.

    But what the Packers could do to fight the situation is at least take a stand.

    They capitulated to McKenzie, sending him to the New Orleans Saints for a player since waived and a second-round pick that turned into Nick Collins.

    And they again capitulated to Walker, sending him to Denver for a second-round pick.

    But just once . . . just once wouldn't it be nice to see a team take a stand. "Play for what your contract says or retire."

    Walker claimed he'd retire rather than play again for the Packers. Wouldn't you have liked to see them call his bluff?

    Now it's Harris who's posturing. And it would be nice if the Packers took a stand.

    A guy can dream, can't he?

    Send e-mail to rbraun@journalsentinel.com
     
  2. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    hell yeah i would have like TT to call his bluff cause then we would not have Harris kicking around his stupidity.
     
  3. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    wow - thank you for posting this, bruce. i honestly believe that the people who started the NFL have GOT to be rolling over in their graves by now. i'm sure their intention was not what it has become. it's sad, really.
     
  4. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

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    I see people write stuff like "He'll sit out the first 10 games, then show up for the final 6 to earn the year off of his contract". Are NFL teams powerless against this tactic? As soon as the player says "OK, I'm coming in for the rest of the year" before week 6 it means there's nothing they can do but begin to pay said player for the remainder of the year?
     
  5. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Al said he isnt holding out.
     
  6. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    As much as I may agree with the overall premise of the article, the fact is the Packers will cave in to Harris. They caved to Sharp, they caved to Levens, they caved to Freeman, they caved to McKenzie, they caved to Franks, they caved to Walker, they caved to Driver. They always have, they always will. Might as well get it over with early so we can move on.
     
  7. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

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    I do not care neither. Screw em.
     
  8. PackerLegend

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    wait until training camp but if he misses so much as a second we have a problem we need to take a stand.

    If javon wouldnt have went down in week 1 he would still be a packer and all he would have done to get his money is have a year like the one before. But he had to skip TC and therefore he did not workout and pratice which pretty much lead to him getting hurt. We shouldnt have let him leave so easy it is showing other players they can do the same. Im also sick of cry babys. THere is no I in team what happened to TEAM PLAYERS?
     
  9. Since69

    Since69 Cheesehead

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    Twice.

    But people will continue to think the worst, because some beat writer finds it easier to regurgitate someone else's rumors than to research and -God forbid- come up with something original and factual.

    If Al doesn't show up I'll be as indignant as the rest of you, trust me. But until then, I'll continue to interpret "Tell them I'd love a new deal, but I'll be there" just the way it sounds.
     
  10. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Great, great post Bruce. Well said. I'd like someone to explain the rule on players sitting out and then coming in after game six to collect their salary. Is that indeed the case, or is it possible for teams to put them on an ineligible list bcause they didn't show up for work on time? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that if Al doesn't show up the games will still be played.

    Someone wrote that Al is not going to hold out. It seems he already has. He didn't show up for camps and he didn't show up for any of the OTA's. If Al is a team player, why in the world wasn't he there. He's more concerned about Al than the team, so I say, let him hold out, but don't pay the guy one cent and then let's see how he feels.
     
  11. net

    net Cheesehead

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    The solution to this is really easy.

    Al agreed to "X" in his current contract. If he played all the years, games etc. he would get that amount.

    Why not shorten the contract to end in 2-3 years, and move the money forward with much of it guaranteed before training camp?

    Harris gets his comparable money now, and free agency sooner.

    The Packers have the cap space, don't pay anymore than they originally would have, and get rid of an aging vet sooner via free agency, plus have contract peace.

    Win-win-win.

    To all of you who say to hell with Harris...would you feel comfortable against Muhammed(Bears)Williams(Lions) and the legion of good receivers working for the Packers opponents this year with Mike Hawkins or Ahmad "HE WAS HOLDING ME!" Carroll? Hmmmm?
     
  12. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    He said he wasn't gonna hold out......along time ago. Last i heard him, he said he hasn't decided. I'm getting tired of these millionaire crybabys that don't have to worry about REAL problems. Do you think he has trouble filling up the gas tank on his Hummer, or Cadilac, or BMW, or whatever luxery car he drives? Or paying rent? These clowns make me wanna puke.
    Just because SOMEONE is making MORE then them! Hurt there poor little feelings!
    See? Thats what you get with todays school system, where they teach EVERY kid that THEY are "special!"
    And we wonder why they grow up to be self centered adults.
     
  13. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Net. If Harris doesn't show up, we're going to have to play with whoever can win the spot. If he's here we're certainly better, but I'm not sure I want to be if I contually have to cower to every players demands.

    Cheesy I think you're probably speaking what almost every GB fan is probably feeling. But you know what, it's not the school systems fault that every kid is supposed to feel special. The schools always reflect the attitudes and interests of their communities.
     
  14. billv

    billv Cheesehead

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    I'm comfident he will show.
     
  15. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I didn't mean to come across blaming the schools. I mean it's the "political correctness" that is pushed on kids today. They teach a false self worth, which doesn't do the kid any good when they get into the REAL world.
    Then, when someone DOES have real talent, like Harris, they think the world revolves around them. NO ONE has more value then they do. They become selfish self centered adults. Which is what we see in the majority (not all) of pro atheletes today. Robin Yount of the Milwaukee Brewers was one of the FEW that turned down more money from other teams to remain loyal to his team. That is more and more rare in today's sports. It sickens me, and has made me question how much longer i want to remain a fan of these spoiled brats.
     
  16. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Cheesey,

    I have a major problem as a high school principal reading your earlier post about school systems and how they treat children. Having worked in public education for the last decade, I see a far different visual of what is happening.

    I see parents who will come in my office and try and cover up their child's behavior time and time again. A lot of this so-called "false self worth" comes from home - not schools!

    In my opinion, the true underlying situation is that a lot of these athletes are coming from poverty as a child and making it to the upper class without ever experiencing the middle of the road. I think we would all agree that it is much more difficult to make that lifestyle change. These athletes do not know how to live and make proper decisions with their money and therefore may become "spoiled brats" as you state it.

    Anyway, just my opinion and with my belief in the educational system, I had to comment on it...
     
  17. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    in my opinion, it ALL comes down to the parents. kids need clear cut guidance & to be taught correct morals & values. when they don't receive that from their parents, they try to find it from other people. if they are fortunate, they find a good person - i.e. a teacher, a family member, etc... the problem is that far too many fall through the cracks & into the waiting arms of some awful people.

    now back to al harris - he hasn't held out yet & until he does, i'm not planning on freaking out. the article bruce posted certainly makes us all take pause. i personally will make it to as many games as i can while brett's playing. after that, i think i'll save the money for my kids education.
     
  18. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I understand Cheesy. I do agree that our entire world seems to not only accept, but encourages selfishness. Most of the athletes by the time they get to the pro game have lived a life of exclusiveness and having everything they want. It's hard to face reality, but eventually they all do.
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    ND.....i don't know if you read my post on page one (it's the last post on the page). I didn't mean to blame the schools. (Sometimes it's hard to make a point understandable when you arn't face to face) The schools have their hands tied today, because of the "P.C." world we live in. Teachers can't discipline the kids if they act up, and alot of them don't get it at home either (as 4pack said). So there is NO guidance, or rules set down for these kids to learn to follow. I had a friend that taught public school in Milwaukee, and he was SO frustrated on how the kids could pretty much do what they wanted.
    When i was a kid, if you acted up in school, you FEARED what would happen to you. There were consequences to your actions. Today, the worse they get is a "time out", which is no punishment at all.
    I agree that alot of these atheletes don't know HOW to act, as they go from poor to instant rich. But that still boils down to what 4pack said, that it begins with the parents. Class and respect can be taught to poor kids too. My Mom came from a dirt poor family, and i mean POOR. She had to eat lard sandwiches, and that was all she got. I'm not kidding. But she still knew right from wrong, and instilled that into me.
    You can have class AND be poor. These rich guys should have learned that long ago from their parents.
     
  20. Hammer

    Hammer Cheesehead

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    In light of your comments, I find your signature rather interesting.
    Hammer
     
  21. Hammer

    Hammer Cheesehead

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    This may only be of passng interest relative to this thread, but I found this on CNNSI:
    "An Atlanta nightclub is billing Titans cornerback Pacman Jones as the host and rookies Vince Young and LenDale White as his special guests for a bash called "The NFL New Millionaire's Club." At least that's what the club's website says. -- The Tennessean"
    Hammer
     
  22. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    A couple of corrections in your list, Franks never held out last summer. Franks was a free agent, not under contract. He was merely negotiating a new contract. Franks went all 5 years with his rookie contract and worked hard on and off the field. After his contract was up, he negotiated a new deal. No one should question that at that point he had every right to negotiate a fair contract. He could not come to TC until he had a new contract, which is why he missed some practices.

    The other correction is Driver. DD never held out or even mentioned the possibility. He quietly negotiated a deal with the team that would allow him to retire as a Packer. It was Walker who falsely stated that DD was unhappy in GB. Walker had no right to say such things and as it turned out DD was quietly negotiating a new deal with GB at the time.

    Both Franks and Driver are players that should be held up as examples to the right way to receive a fair contract. Neither one used the media to pressure the team. Neither one missed any practices while under contract. Both work hard in the offseason to become better players. Both players have honored their contracts. Say what you would like about the others, but these 2 players should not be included on that list.

    GO PACK GO!!!
     
  23. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Yes...and my question remains...do you want Hawkins and Carroll there?
    Harris has a legit beef. I know most of you (and I agree with you) think a contract is a contract. But the clubs don't live up to contracts(cutting players early) so why should the players live up to theirs? Two wrongs don't make a right, but in Harris' case, he does have the right to bitch when a guy who has never played a down in Green Bay(and not much the last two years) gets primo money while Harris has been busting *** and being a company man.
     
  24. net

    net Cheesehead

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    This has less to do with the topic than a political forum. By the way, Al Harris has been exemplary to this point. He has shut his mouth, played with what was given him and has done well. This isn't college and this is the United States. You have a right to tell your employer you think you need a raise, whether the boss or anyone else thinks you do. The only difference in this request is it becomes global.
     
  25. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    net....the fact that teams do not honor contracts is more than offset by the fact that there is so much "up front" money in the contracts that the low average in the final years is not truly representative of the compensation as a whole.

    I have no problem with how Al Harris is handling his business at this point, but the minute he holds out is when my opinion changes. Look at our roster! It is littered with guys who have been rewarded for hard work with hefty contracts...many from very humble starts in the league (Tauscher comes to mind). The Packers have a long history of taking care of their core guys. For a player or agent to say or imply otherwise is pure bullshit
     

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