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Harris and Woodson

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Jan 25, 2007.

  1. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    It's often said that players get better by playing against the best. I wonder, were Al Harris and Charles Woodson at the minicamps? If not, maybe if they were the WR's would have been better prepared for the season going against a quality set of DB's instead of Ahmad Carroll and Co.
     
  2. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    It's hard to tell. It may have hurt the receivers a little, as well as the safeties, to not have Harris and Woodson to practice with in June. But everyone still had all of training camp to prepare for the season, so I think the effect on the rest of the team was probably minimal to nonexistent.
     
  3. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Interesting....

    Never thought about it like that, Zero. But I'd have to say that makes some sense to me. But I really think the heavy value falls in Official TC, and OTA's are more conditioning stuff, not as much technique.

    I really have no absolute info, just conjecture on my part.
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I dunno myself. I do know that when I'm matched against someone better it makes me better.
     
  5. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I know one thing..I think it definitely hurt Woodson not to be involved in the voluntary workouts. I mean, he came on strong as heck at the end of the season but people were pretty disappointed with his play early on and I think missing that time might have hurt him.

    I know this was supposed to be about the WR's and I think not going against the best DB's that Green Bay had to offer definitely didn't help them prepare for the season.
     
  6. carlos

    carlos Cheesehead

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    They hurt themseves more than anyone. In fact, young receivers may have benefited by them not being there, because they had more time to think, instead of going up against pro bowl quality DBS.
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    so, what does everyone think about players missing "voluntary" workouts? I mean, we all wish they were there so they could get in as much preparation as possible, but can we really be disgusted with something that's supposed to be voluntary? I am a bit irritated that they aren't there, and really the only reason they're called "voluntary" is because it's against the rules to have anything mandatory during that time. I say that the NFL should get rid of that rule, then teams could make voluntary workouts mandatory instead. I mean, what's the point of the rule against mandatory offseason programs? It's not like they're college kids missing classes.
     
  8. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I think the reason these workouts are voluntary is because the players' union put its foot down on the issue, and I don't blame them. Left to their own devices, coaches would require more and more practice throughout the year as a way of seeking to gain an edge on opponents. It could get to the point where every team was practicing almost throughout the year, but it wouldn't improve the quality of play because they would all cancel each other out. There are already a lot more offseason events than there used to be in the NFL, plus players nowadays have to run and lift weights for most of the year just to keep up with everybody else. Enough is enough.

    I think the June minicamp (or OTA, as it is officially known) should either be mandatory or done away with entirely. It puts players in a weird position, being expected to attend something that they're not required to attend. They're professionals. Expectations should be clear, and they should be paid to fulfill those expectations. If my employer told me that I was expected to do some extra work, although I would not be paid for it and it was not absolutely required, I would tell them to shove it.
     
  9. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I really don't think they hurt themselves or anyone else. Mini camps are not a huge deal especially for veterans as themselves. Considering they don't go full pads I doubt being there would of made much of a difference especially for the receivers. Considering they both had Pro Bowl caliber years I'd say it wasn't a huge deal at all and both said they were keeping shape on their own and I believe they were.

    The young receivers had 30 to 40 days of training camp to go up against them and show their stuff. If they can’t put good use to that time when it’s in full pads then I doubt they would of done anything worth noticing in mini camps especially in shorts when it's not that hard to look good.
     
  10. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I would say that in the case of the Packers with a new staff and several new players on the defense there was a greater need to get in extra time working together last year.

    Manuel, Woodson, Hawk, and Poppinga were all new to each other and the system so they could have used the time as a unit.

    With all the guys coming back to the same system this year it would not be as important as last year. Still, MM has made it clear his goal is to change the way of thinking regarding participation by the vets in these camps. There were a lot of guys out last year and he was not happy about it.

    One player was talking about the pay. Geesh. Most make a minimum of what a $1,000 bucks to $12-14,000 a day over a year? That should be enough to show up for work.
     
  11. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    What probably hurt the most was the fact Manuel and Poppinga were hurt the entire pre-season and didn't participate in much of anything until the week before the regular season.

    You have new coaches, new players, and, and couple of guys unable to get rotations in the pass defense.

    I believe it's more than irony that both those guys had their share of problems out there. At least Poppy got better as the season went along.
     
  12. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    That's a very good point and you never hear much of it especially for Manuel. I agree with it but I think it hurt Poppinga more than Manuel. Even as the year went on Manuel stayed the same where as Poppinga improved.
     
  13. Packersfan43084

    Packersfan43084 Cheesehead

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    It's not there job to get the WR's ready. All that is on the WR themselves as well as the coaching staff.
     
  14. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    i don't think the discussion on whether or not it was the DB's fault, although the title of the topic is a bit misleading. I think the question is, woud the WR's been better if they'd gone against Woodson and Harris earlier?
     
  15. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    I'm curious whether Woodson shows up THIS year for these camps. Even he should be able to see that his miserably slow start adversly affected his early play on the field and thus our early failures in coverage. But I'll bet that it never crossed his mind and we'll never see him in GB unless it's a mandatory session. Harris, I expect, will choose to use those sessions as an "I want a new contract" exercise.
     
  16. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    This thread has pretty much fizzled so I'm gonna elaborate on your last sentence :)


    I wonder what will happen with Harris. Personally he doesn't seem like the guy who will not show up, but then on the flip side I've seen his interviews and wow does he hold no punches.

    I'm thinking Harris will get his contract 're-do' and (this is from someone who is not thoroughly educated on his contract) think he deserves it.
     

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