Greatest Team Ever

[LAG]

A sixth seeded team with 15 or 16 players on IR. They knock off all the big boys on the road. Two stars, one on O and another on D go down in the SB and they still win it all.

Someone tell me why this ISN'T the greatest story ever, in pro football.

 

[JBlood]

Excellent point. Certainly one of the NFL's greatest stories.

 

[fettpett]

definitely one of the greatest stories, just not greatest teams.

 

[LombardiChick]

sorry, videotaping team walkthroughs disqualifies you from competing in the greatest team of all time conversation.

That didn't actually happen, ivo.

Patriots owner pleased with Boston Herald's apology

The intensity of the Patriots' spying controversy became more acute when the Boston Herald reported that the team had taped a walk-through of the St. Louis Rams before Super Bowl XXXVI. After the commissioner acknowledged that no such tape has come forward, the newspaper issued an apology on Tuesday night.

It reads: "On Feb. 2, 2008, the Boston Herald reported that a member of the New England Patriots' video staff taped the St. Louis Rams' walk-through on the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. While the Boston Herald based its Feb. 2, 2008, report on sources that it believed to be credible, we now know that this report was false, and that no tape of the walk-through ever existed.

"Prior to the publication of its Feb. 2, 2008, article, the Boston Herald neither possessed nor viewed a tape of the Rams' walk-through before Super Bowl XXXVI, nor did we speak to anyone who had. We should not have published the allegation in the absence of firmer verification.

"The Boston Herald regrets the damage done to the team by publication of the allegation, and sincerely apologizes to its readers and to the New England Patriots' owners, players, employees and fans for our error."

 

[ivo610]

That didn't actually happen, ivo.

Patriots owner pleased with Boston Herald's apology

No, it just means that Walsh didnt turn over that tape. And thats not even for sure, as the tapes were destroyed. The NFL would rather hide this then have the pats caught for cheating in the SB.

Dont forget that the packers were the first team to catch the pats doing this.

 

[LombardiChick]

No, it just means that Walsh didnt turn over that tape. And thats not even for sure, as the tapes were destroyed. The NFL would rather hide this then have the pats caught for cheating in the SB.

Dont forget that the packers were the first team to catch the pats doing this.

Walsh told Goodell he did not tape the walk-through and had no knowledge that any other Patriots employees did so, Goodell said. The commissioner also indicated he considered the investigation over after meeting with Walsh.

I think you might be conflating two stories - the destroyed tapes you mean, I think, we were the Spygate tapes - not the alleged walk-through tapes, which according to this, never existed at all. Is that right?

 

[ivo610]

I think you might be conflating two stories - the destroyed tapes you mean, I think, we were the Spygate tapes - not the alleged walk-through tapes, which according to this, never existed at all. Is that right?

?

Patriots (walsh and others) taped signals and rumored to tape walkthroughs like the rams one. Walsh turned over 8 tapes to the nfl. According to the NFL those did not include the walkthrough tape. The NFL and the Patriots deny the walkthrough tape. Doesnt mean the tape didnt exist. Doesnt mean someone other than walsh had it. Doesnt mean walsh isnt holding onto it.

The nfl destroyed all evidence.

I have heard from several NFL employees and a national journalist that they strongly believe that it existed.

If there was nothing to hide I dont know why the tapes were destroyed.

 

[LombardiChick]

?

Patriots (walsh and others) taped signals and rumored to tape walkthroughs like the rams one. Walsh turned over 8 tapes to the nfl. According to the NFL those did not include the walkthrough tape. The NFL and the Patriots deny the walkthrough tape. Doesnt mean the tape didnt exist. Doesnt mean someone other than walsh had it. Doesnt mean walsh isnt holding onto it.

The nfl destroyed all evidence.

I have heard from several NFL employees and a national journalist that they strongly believe that it existed.

If there was nothing to hide I dont know why the tapes were destroyed.

I'm trying to understand this, ivo, and I'm having a hard time - sorry. I just showed you in bold that Walsh says no such walk-through tape ever existed (edited to add: as far as he knows), but you seem to be ignoring that for some reason.

That's why I think the two distinct stories (the taping of signals to be used in subsequent games, sort of a semantics argument the Patriots had with the league - those tapes were indeed destroyed), and the accusation that they taped a walk-through (for which there isn't any evidence...even Walsh says this), are being conflated.

The reason I even corrected this was that you said a team that tapes a walk-through shouldn't be considered in this debate...but they didn't do that. They did other things, but not that.

For the record, I'm not arguing that the Patriots should be considered the GOAT or anything like that - just trying to make sure the record is accurate. Speculation isn't evidence, you know?

 

[greenandgold]

If we're saying best team I've seen ........... then my vote would go to the 17-2 Steelers of 1975.

*However Jack Lambert reckons the best Steeler team of that era was the 1976 one, and they didn't even win the SB (because, unlike us this year, they couldn't overcome their injury crisis).

But would that make this year's Packers a better team, since they did overcome the injuries?

 

[ivo610]

I'm trying to understand this, ivo, and I'm having a hard time - sorry. I just showed you in bold that Walsh says no such walk-through tape ever existed (edited to add: as far as he knows), but you seem to be ignoring that for some reason.

That's why I think the two distinct stories (the taping of signals to be used in subsequent games, sort of a semantics argument the Patriots had with the league - those tapes were indeed destroyed), and the accusation that they taped a walk-through (for which there isn't any evidence...even Walsh says this), are being conflated.

The reason I even corrected this was that you said a team that tapes a walk-through shouldn't be considered in this debate...but they didn't do that. They did other things, but not that.

For the record, I'm not arguing that the Patriots should be considered the GOAT or anything like that - just trying to make sure the record is accurate. Speculation isn't evidence, you know?

You can choose to believe that if you would like. As I said before, I have spoken to several NFL employees (2 different teams) and a national reporter who said they believe the pats taped the walkthrough. And I believe people destroy evidence only when they want to hide something.

Your kidding yourself if you dont think stuff like this happens every season but goes unreported in the media. Different levels of course but it happens. I assume you missed my post about 6 weeks ago on the lions and rams that was never reported in the news.

 

[ivo610]

lombardichick, I am not going to continue to argue with you about spygate on this thread as it has nothing to do at this point with the thread. If you would like to continue this discussion I would be more than happy to through PM. I hope your not seeking my posts out to start something based on non football related posts

 

[LombardiChick]

You can choose to believe that if you would like. As I said before, I have spoken to several NFL employees (2 different teams) and a national reporter who said they believe the pats taped the walkthrough.

Well, since that's all that's been confirmed (regardless of who you talked to and what they "believe"), I will take you up on that - and issue a reciprocal "same to you". LOL :wink:

 

[LombardiChick]

lombardichick, I am not going to continue to argue with you about spygate on this thread as it has nothing to do at this point with the thread. If you would like to continue this discussion I would be more than happy to through PM. I hope your not seeking my posts out to start something based on non football related posts

Wow, ivo - I was only responding to something you said on this thread. I do not search PackerForum to argue with you about anything (really, ivo...really?), but you stated something as though it was fact when I knew it was not.

And last time I checked, it was football-related.

If you would rather not be corrected when you make false statements, I will respect that. Wow.

Nevermind the PM. I'm done here too.

 

[ivo610]

Wow, ivo - I was only responding to something you said on this thread. I do not search PackerForum to argue with you about anything (really, ivo...really?), but you stated something as though it was fact when I knew it was not.

And last time I checked, it was football-related.

If you would rather not be corrected when you make false statements, I will respect that. Wow.

Nevermind the PM. I'm done here too.

politics in madison is football related? please explain.

 

[LombardiChick]

politics in madison is football related? please explain.

My bad on that part. I didn't have any idea what you were talking about. Now I do. I meant that this discussion is football-related.

 

[ivo610]

Wow, ivo - I was only responding to something you said on this thread. I do not search PackerForum to argue with you about anything (really, ivo...really?), but you stated something as though it was fact when I knew it was not.

And last time I checked, it was football-related.

If you would rather not be corrected when you make false statements, I will respect that. Wow.

Nevermind the PM. I'm done here too.

you know for a fact its not true? Just like for a fact OJ didnt kill anyone?

Would you feel better if it said "alleged"?

The nfl destroyed the tapes, so its going to be tough for anyone to prove anything.

 

[LombardiChick]

you know for a fact its not true? Just like for a fact OJ didnt kill anyone?

Would you feel better if it said "alleged"?

The nfl destroyed the tapes, so its going to be tough for anyone to prove anything.

I thought you were done. Say whatever you want about anybody, based on whatever you want to base it on. I've exhausted my level of Give A ____™ on this. :smile:

 

[ivo610]

I thought you were done. Say whatever you want about anybody, based on whatever you want to base it on. I've exhausted my level of Give A ____™ on this. :smile:

LOL I think your confused. But again, try using the PM, no need to clutter up this thread.

 

[LombardiChick]

LOL I think your confused. But again, try using the PM, no need to clutter up this thread.

Well, that's mutual. No really - don't care to go to PM with you over this. Just let the discussion go back to who is the greatest team.

And just let the record show: I didn't bring this side topic up. 'Twas not me. :angel:

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Ivo, you've already admitted that you "hate the pats", so it's no stretch of the imqgination that you'll believe anything bad about them that anyone "strongly believes happened" even without evidence.

However, I am shocked that you'd willfully ignore any factual evidence that is contrary to your beliefs, and then get all pissy about it to someone giving you those facts. I thought you were better than that

Oh well, live and learn, I guess. Sigh.

 

[ivo610]

Ivo, you've already admitted that you "hate the pats", so it's no stretch of the imqgination that you'll believe anything bad about them that anyone "strongly believes happened" even without evidence.

However, I am shocked that you'd willfully ignore any factual evidence that is contrary to your beliefs, and then get all pissy about it to someone giving you those facts. I thought you were better than that

Oh well, live and learn, I guess. Sigh.

aHAHAHAHHA a Pats fan accusing me of not being objective on something involving the pats? At least you dont have a political vendetta I guess.

I do hate the pats. I hate them for taping on the packers sidelines. I hate them for their smug attitude.

What factual evidence is their to the contrary? Their was enough evidence for the boston globe to run with the story. I bet they had some pretty good sources if they went with a big story like that against the hometown team.

The only "evidence" is that the pats and nfl office deny that a tape exist. Walsh said he didnt tape it if there is a tape.

the nfl destroyed the tapes so it really makes for a good debate.

But fine, I will go with allegedly video taped SB walkthroughs and were punished for illegal use of a camera on nfl sidelines.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

1. The Boston paper had ZERO evidence of a SB walkthrough being taped. It was one guy saying he did it.
2. The guy who claimed it didn't have any evidence that he did it other than his own word.
3. The NFL tried to get the guy to present any evidence. He had none, and turned over NOTHING.
4. The paper then said, "Oops".

That's not being unobjective. Those are all facts. Period. Spygate is a whole different incident altogether.

As far as the rest of your hostility, I'll justtake that as further evidence that I am unwelcome here, and leave you to your anti-Pats circle jerk.

I'd say "Later." but that ain't gonna happen. Have tbe lasr word.

 

[ivo610]

1. The Boston paper had ZERO evidence of a SB walkthrough being taped. It was one guy saying he did it.
2. The guy who claimed it didn't have any evidence that he did it other than his own word.
3. The NFL tried to get the guy to present any evidence. He had none, and turned over NOTHING.
4. The paper then said, "Oops".

That's not being unobjective. Those are all facts. Period. Spygate is a whole different incident altogether.

As far as the rest of your hostility, I'll justtake that as further evidence that I am unwelcome here, and leave you to your anti-Pats circle jerk.

I'd say "Later." but that ain't gonna happen. Have tbe lasr word.

I agreed it was alleged in the same was OJ is alleged to have murdered.

The Pats "allegedly" taped the SB walkthrough.

The Herald, in my eyes, has been a quality paper that doesnt jump the gun on stories. With a story so sensitive as this I am surprised they would "have no evidence" as you say. I know the paper didnt reveal the source but that doesnt mean they didnt have one.

The relationship between the pats and the Herald has always interesting. I am sure some have claimed it was a vendetta for Lisa Olson.

 

[ivo610]

snowplow,

i dont know why you feel you are unwelcome here. I might have missed something though as I dont pay close attention to alot of threads. I hope you dont think my hated towards the pats reflects on you, as I dont think it has. I enjoy your posts on the forum and I thought pretty much everyone else does as well. By no means am I trying to sway you from leaving, thats your call if you dont feel the forum love, just trying to set the record straight on my feelings towards the pats and some of their fans as being separate.

 

[LombardiChick]

Ivo, if that 'political vendetta' business was a shot at me, I want to tell you that it's all in your head. We don't know each other well, but just so there is no confusion: I am a very direct individual. I don't play games with people. If something bothers me, you won't ever have to speculate about it, because I have no problem telling you. I had no idea the political discussion was on anyone's mind at all. Frankly, I didn't even realize you considered yourself my adversary in that conversation. And I didn't consider you one.

You don't have to imagine what I think, and I would really rather you didn't.