Graham Harrell....uyyyy

[HardRightEdge]

Even if you've never seen McCoy play pro football, you have to ask yourself why Cleveland management, on the bubble with a new owner, would want to ditch their incumbent starter altogether (not just bench him) for a 28 year old rookie? While the concussion incident and it's aftermath left a sour taste in the mouths of everybody concerned in Cleveland, "change of scene" arguments don't hold up so well if you've actually seen him play in regular season action...he does not have a good grasp of the game, the game has not slowed down for him, he's guessing out there. As disappointed as the faithful might be with Harrell's progress, I seriously doubt McCoy would be an upgrade.

One name not mentioned to this point in this thread is Tavaris Jackson. Rumor has it that unless Flynn tanks in the preseason, which is not likely, he'll be on the block with Wilson at backup. Jackson has about 35 starts under his belt, he's West Coast experienced, he's mobile, he threw for 3000 yds. last season with an injured pectoral muscle. I think he'd work out better than some 40 year old guy who hasn't played in a couple of years.

The point is likely moot. Flynn looked pretty shabby in the 2010 preseason and we stuck with him; that will likely be the case here. Unless and until Coleman beats him out, Flynn will be the backup. I think he'll have to fail in regular season action before he's written off altogether.

 

[SpartaChris]

I guess what I'm looking at is that he's been with the team since May of 2010. In my opinion, he should be able to show something by now. I don't think expecting him to be a serviceable backup by his third year is an accelerated rate.

I'd normally agree with you, but I feel like you have to discount last year. No QB school, no off-season and no real training camp set him back a year as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SpartaChris]

Here's the thing with the backup situation, and why I'm indifferent as to who the backup is- There are only a handful of players in the league who would be good enough to take you to a Super Bowl, and those guys are all busy starting for their own teams. Any backup we put in is going to be mediocre at best and expecting them to lead us to a Super Bowl is simply unrealistic, so to me, it's just not worth stressing out about.

 

[60six]

I'd normally agree with you, but I feel like you have to discount last year. No QB school, no off-season and no real training camp set him back a year as far as I'm concerned.

To think that MM found lighting in a bottle again.....like he did with Flynn maybe too much to ask for. Its possible that GH is not a NFL QB and time to move on from him.

 

[SpartaChris]

To think that MM found lighting in a bottle again.....like he did with Flynn maybe too much to ask for. Its possible that GH is not a NFL QB and time to move on from him.

I don't disagree. I personally feel it's too soon to unload Harrell, mainly because I feel like he didn't get much time to develop last season, but I also have no problem moving on if he doesn't start showing improvement.

 

[PackersandPokemon]

I don't think anyone would expect another Matt Flynn or a backup with the capability of winning a Super Bowl. What I look for in a backup is this: say Rodgers sustains a smaller injury like a concussion- something that would take him out for a week or two- can the backup be decent enough to keep us competitive for those games, keep us in the playoff/home-field advantage hunt?

I can't see Harrell performing even at that level for us, at least not from what we've seen thus far. Not to say that he needs to be cut immediately, but I'd like to see more from him and some playing time for BJ Coleman before thinking of outsourcing the backup job.

 

[13 Times Champs]

It's not about unloading Harrell at this point it's about his ability to be a bonafide backup during this current season. We need someone that could step in, God forbid Rodgers goes down, and Harrell isn't ready in my opinion.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Heading into his 3rd season with the Packers, and with the same coach, system, here was Aaron Rodgers stat line, and that was in regular season games with real blockers and receivers. Not with horseschit backup OL bums like Harrell has been having in front of him.

15/31 (under 50%), 111 yards, under 4 yards per pass attempt.
He also fumbled 3 times in those 5 games, losing all. And he got hurt.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/career

Graham Harrell is decent enough but the main problem is when he's come in these 2 games, he's had all the starters coming out. He's had no time to throw, has to try an dodge free bullets coming after him right away, and then oh by the way when he has thrown the ball to his guys (backup TE's and WR's), they've dropped the ball, or flatout fallen down completely.
Yes I know he overthrew a guy on a deep post on Thursday, but Rodgers also overthrew Jordy a few plays before the TD pass to Jordy. And Rodgers overthrew Jennings in overtime of the Cardinals playoff game, and he had plenty of experience under his belt by then of course..... guys do occasionally overthrow receivers. It happens to everyone.

Bottom line his this: When (If) Harrell is needed during REAL games, he will have the real WRs, TEs, and OL with him. So why aren't they letting him play now in practice games before those good guys come out, the same guys he will need to be on the same page with in emergency situations?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Here's the thing with the backup situation, and why I'm indifferent as to who the backup is- There are only a handful of players in the league who would be good enough to take you to a Super Bowl, and those guys are all busy starting for their own teams. Any backup we put in is going to be mediocre at best and expecting them to lead us to a Super Bowl is simply unrealistic, so to me, it's just not worth stressing out about.

I'd agree in the event of a season ending injury to Rodgers. However it is not uncommon for a starting QB to miss just a couple of games during a season; the likelihood of that happening has gone up with the new concussion protocols.

The idea is that you should have a backup who gives you a good chance to win against mediocre to poor teams for a couple of games. The difference between 10-6 and 12-4 might be the difference between missing the playoffs and getting a first round bye.

This is especially important with the Packers...we're not SF, PIT, BAL or HOU who can beat 0.500 teams with a running game and stout D. Losing to MIN or AZ or JAX because of lack of production out of the QB position could be highly damaging.

 

[SpartaChris]

FWIW, a play by play breakdown of Graham Harrell's performance on Thursday:

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-vs-browns-re-watch-film-breakdown-of-several-key-players

 

[SpartaChris]

I'd agree in the event of a season ending injury to Rodgers. However it is not uncommon for a starting QB to miss just a couple of games during a season; the likelihood of that happening has gone up with the new concussion protocols.

The idea is that you should have a backup who gives you a good chance to win against mediocre to poor teams for a couple of games. The difference between 10-6 and 12-4 might be the difference between missing the playoffs and getting a first round bye.

This is especially important with the Packers...we're not SF, PIT, BAL or HOU who can beat 0.500 teams with a running game and stout D. Losing to MIN or AZ or JAX because of lack of production out of the QB position could be highly damaging.

I understand that. It would be interesting to see what he could do with the #1 offense, which is who he'd be playing with should Rodgers have to miss a game or two. So far we've seen him in with a bunch of guys who aren't going to make the practice squad.

 

[ivo610]

Here's the thing with the backup situation, and why I'm indifferent as to who the backup is- There are only a handful of players in the league who would be good enough to take you to a Super Bowl, and those guys are all busy starting for their own teams. Any backup we put in is going to be mediocre at best and expecting them to lead us to a Super Bowl is simply unrealistic, so to me, it's just not worth stressing out about.

I'd rather have a high pick than watch us go 7-9

 

[ivo610]

I understand that. It would be interesting to see what he could do with the #1 offense, which is who he'd be playing with should Rodgers have to miss a game or two. So far we've seen him in with a bunch of guys who aren't going to make the practice squad.

To be fair the defense isn't game planning against him and he isn't playing against starters

 

[SpartaChris]

To be fair the defense isn't game planning against him and he isn't playing against starters

This is also true.

I mostly feel like he needs one more year of development before making a decision. I know he was on the roster last season, and technically this is his third season with the Packers, but he missed all of the crucial elements the off-season brings last year, which is important for the development of any quarterback.

I don't believe I'm qualified to say whether he's better than BJ Coleman or not, at least at this stage in the game. I know he hasn't looked very good in his two showings so far, but he's also made a couple good plays. I know most Packers fans hate this, but I think we need more patience with him before writing him off.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Harrell is playing like a guy who stole a Packer jersey and ran onto the field. He looks like a deer in the headlights.

 

[ivo610]

This is also true.

I mostly feel like he needs one more year of development before making a decision. I know he was on the roster last season, and technically this is his third season with the Packers, but he missed all of the crucial elements the off-season brings last year, which is important for the development of any quarterback.

I don't believe I'm qualified to say whether he's better than BJ Coleman or not, at least at this stage in the game. I know he hasn't looked very good in his two showings so far, but he's also made a couple good plays. I know most Packers fans hate this, but I think we need more patience with him before writing him off.

I don't see him in practice every day. The worst game I ever saw Rodgers play was family night in 08. I trust the staff to know what kind of QB he is.

 

[Shawnsta3]

Graham Harrell was a backup with the CFL. I don't know if you know how STINKIN' BAD you have to be to be a backup in the CFL, but you just have to be terrible.

This was one of my friend's scouting reports on him coming out of college.(Graham's now 27 but I believe most of this still applies)

Pros: Decent scrambling ability. Does a good job of reading the defense and finding the open man. Has good size. Good throwing motion.
Cons: Not accurate. Really showed in the Oklahoma game. Terrible footwork; looks like he is standing in cement. Played in a shotgun formation mostly at Texas Tech. Needs to work on a dropback.

Now my buddy isn't a pro scout, but I'd like to believe he knows what he's talking about. I also know your guys's feelings on the topic of a "system quarterback" while I think it's mostly a myth in the NFL and quickly vanishing in the NCAA, this guy on all accounts of the players that have come out of Mike Leach's offense is a "system quarteback" I think Thompson thought if McCarthy could teach Harrell how to drop back and help him on his footwork matched with his good recognition of defenses and size he would mask his lack of deep throwing power and any sort of accuracy at all. Well he looked improved in everything except the most important aspect- accuracy. Viewed as a long term prospect who would need work but could be developed, he hasn't developed enough. McCarthy can't fix every wretched soul who walks in his QB camp and this is an example. B.J Coleman on the other hand- well, he's got a better shot.

 

[Cheesehead 786]

Maybe a little off topic but... I've been saying this since I watched him play for Texas Tech. He's overrated and only looked good because of the horrendous pass defenses that live in the Big 12. Plus Michael Crabtree was the best WR in his draft class.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Maybe a little off topic but... I've been saying this since I watched him play for Texas Tech. He's overrated and only looked good because of the horrendous pass defenses that live in the Big 12. Plus Michael Crabtree was the best WR in his draft class.

How great has Crabtree been in the NFL again? He's entering year-4 now, hasn't done crap.

Harrell is fine. Trust McCarthy when it comes to QBs.
You remember how quickly they knew Brian Brohm couldn't play? They didn't keep him long, one year, even for a high draft pick.
The reverse was true of Flynn, and Harrell now.
They see, and know, a lot more than you guys do.

They're well aware that the OL that's been pass-protecting Harrell in these 2 fake games are bums and that the floodgates open as soon as the ball is snapped.

They see the TEs & WRs dropping balls... falling down tripping over the yard line, etc.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Harrell is fine. Trust McCarthy when it comes to QBs.
You remember how quickly they knew Brian Brohm couldn't play? They didn't keep him long, one year, even for a high draft pick.
The reverse was true of Flynn, and Harrell now.

Brohm was placed on waivers by the Packers in 2009 but later resigned to the Packers practice squad. He was signed off the practice squad by Buffalo subsequently.

I think you are premature in your evaluation of Harrell being fine and in the Flynn rather than Brohm class. Time will surely tell on that.

 

[lambeaulambo]

They see the TEs & WRs dropping balls... falling down tripping over the yard line, etc.


You mean like Jermichael? lol.

 

[Cheesehead 786]

How great has Crabtree been in the NFL again? He's entering year-4 now, hasn't done crap.

Harrell is fine. Trust McCarthy when it comes to QBs.
You remember how quickly they knew Brian Brohm couldn't play? They didn't keep him long, one year, even for a high draft pick.
The reverse was true of Flynn, and Harrell now.
They see, and know, a lot more than you guys do.

They're well aware that the OL that's been pass-protecting Harrell in these 2 fake games are bums and that the floodgates open as soon as the ball is snapped.

They see the TEs & WRs dropping balls... falling down tripping over the yard line, etc.

Harrell will fail in the NFL, I'm gonna stop responding and let his awful performance (God forbid we have to put him in in a regular season game) do the talking.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I don't have enough information to say whether Harrell will fail or not. It could go either way. All I'm saying is that at this point I don't see him as being ready to take over if Rodgers went down.

It really isn't surprising to me to see him struggling however. I watched RG III play last night against the Bears. He looked like **** and he's the second over all pick in the draft. I think RG III will eventually be a very good QB. But he has a long way to go now as does Harrell.

 

[Croak]

I have nothing but my gut to go by on this thought. But I think the way Tavaris Jackson is talking, he hopes to become Rodgers backup.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[DevilDon]

My 2 cents is that Harrell is showing the coaches and FO something. Despite the fact that he's playing with 2nd and 3rd stringers, he's running for his life and players dropping balls he has kept his head.
I think the most important aspect of QBing is keeping your cool. I read several times on other sites where they thought it was atrocious that he was laughing and having a good time on the sideline near the end of the game.
I think it's actually good.. just like DBs... you have to forget individual plays and move on to the next.
I don't remember having one iota of confidence in Matt Flynn until the Patriots game. He didn't show anything in preseason to suggest he'd have a chance to beat the best team in football at the time. He never showed anything in preseason to suggest he'd have a game like he did against Detroit last year.
I believe we all shine in our jobs when the pressure is on. It separates the wheat from the chaff. As a fan I know I'd like to see him in the #1 offense but I understand that the Packers see what they want when he's under the gun so to speak.
I think we'll all see what we want in the KC game.. Harrell with the ones.
One last thought, how interesting that someone disqualifies him for being a backup in the CFL. It's quite possible the guy never got any kind of good coaching until he got here.
All the negative people can blast me later if he fails. I said before I also think rookie Datko is going to be a steal and Manning and Richardson will make the team. Despite what we all have seen in preseason.