Gm rankings for draft

Curly Calhoun

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Nice post except the part about Love pushing Aaron. Not saying that it couldn't or didn't happen but it didn't fit with your otherwise factual post.

.Being capable of bouncing back is not knowing he will bounce back. No one could know he would bounce back. Love was drafted just in case he didn't.


It doesn't matter. If any level of player has a couple of down years it could be a sign that he has peaked and will continue to fall. So even his down years were better than a lot of QBs. Should a GM expect him to level out at that lower but still very good level and consider that good enough or should he expect him to bounce back to his elite form like Captain suggests or should he consider that fact that he may continue to decline and take steps to plan for that if it happens. IMO Gute made the sensible choice which was the last one.

But if his down year was 2019, and he's won two league MVP awards since then, are we still insisting he's in decline?
 

Heyjoe4

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his appearance has definitely aged beyond his years. not sure it has anything to do with holding a grudge tho.
Hard to say. Different things affect aging, genetics is probably first. Sounds like he's estranged from his family, and then the "holdout" a few years ago. Maybe it's just the grunge look.
 

Heyjoe4

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But if his down year was 2019, and he's won two league MVP awards since then, are we still insisting he's in decline?
I'm not saying he's declining, and I don't think sschind is either. He just provided a pretty good reason for why Gluten drafted Love when he did. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary. And Gluten could have handled it better by at least telling Rodgers what he was doing. Seems like everyone's happy now and looking forward to some good football this season.
 

sschind

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But if his down year was 2019, and he's won two league MVP awards since then, are we still insisting he's in decline?
Who has said he is in decline now. All I said was that after 2 years of statistical decline (facts that can not be disputed) it was perfectly reasonable and responsible for Gute to consider the decline might continue and to plan ahead for that possibility.
 

PikeBadger

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I'm not saying he's declining, and I don't think sschind is either. He just provided a pretty good reason for why Gluten drafted Love when he did. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary. And Gluten could have handled it better by at least telling Rodgers what he was doing. Seems like everyone's happy now and looking forward to some good football this season.
Gutekunst called Rodgers in February of 2020 that there was a possibility they would take a QB in the upcoming draft.
 

captainWIMM

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That's all true. We shouldn't forget who drafted Rodgers after all, among other good drafts at the start of his GM years. I'd still take Gluten over TT. Gluten got off to a slow start but more than made up for it.

There's absolutely no doubt Gutekunst has done a great job overall. It was his biggest mistake to trade up for Love in the first round of the 2020 draft though.

Being capable of bouncing back is not knowing he will bounce back. No one could know he would bounce back. Love was drafted just in case he didn't.

I would have been fine with a third or fourth round pick spent on a quarterback in case Rodgers didn't bounce back. There was absolutely no reason to trade up in the first round just in case.

I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether the front office should have known he would bounce back or not from those habits.

I agree there was no way for the front office to know Rodgers would bounce back but they should have been aware that it was a distinct possibility. With that being said and the team coming off making it to the NFCCG with Rodgers struggling trading up in the first round to select a backup quarterback was a terrible idea.

Most HCs, even the best, need to move on after 10 years. Mike Tomlin is the only exception that comes to mind.

It might be worth noting that the Steelers haven't been that successful since losing to the Packers in the Super Bowl in 2010 either. Actually they have won only three playoff games since while missing the playoffs four times.

He just provided a pretty good reason for why Gluten drafted Love when he did. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary.

I don't consider it as fortunate to spend a first rounder on a prospect that will hardly play over the length of his rookie contract.
 

Heyjoe4

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There's absolutely no doubt Gutekunst has done a great job overall. It was his biggest mistake to trade up for Love in the first round of the 2020 draft though.



I would have been fine with a third or fourth round pick spent on a quarterback in case Rodgers didn't bounce back. There was absolutely no reason to trade up in the first round just in case.



I agree there was no way for the front office to know Rodgers would bounce back but they should have been aware that it was a distinct possibility. With that being said and the team coming off making it to the NFCCG with Rodgers struggling trading up in the first round to select a backup quarterback was a terrible idea.



It might be worth noting that the Steelers haven't been that successful since losing to the Packers in the Super Bowl in 2010 either. Actually they have won only three playoff games since while missing the playoffs four times.



I don't consider it as fortunate to spend a first rounder on a prospect that will hardly play over the length of his rookie contract.
By "fortunate" I was referring to the play of Rodgers after Love was drafted. I should have said, fortunately Love wasn't needed.

That doesn't change the fact that Love was a terrible draft pick. It's unlikely GB will ever see any real value from Love - not on the field and not in a trade. I only hope Gluten does better when he really has to fill the QB position in a few years (or next year - who knows?). At least he's improved dramatically in personnel matters since that disaster.
 
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gopkrs

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Him adjusting to his loss of mobility I think was a bigger cog in that hiccup than many think. He clearly has become smarter and more cognizant of precisely what he is capable of now leg wise.
Probably. But that he is leading receivers better is for sure.
 

Heyjoe4

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Gutekunst called Rodgers in February of 2020 that there was a possibility they would take a QB in the upcoming draft.
And that probably should have been enough. But we're all dealing with Rodgers in his "diva" years where he acts (sometimes) like he should be running the entire operation. He's a great QB. He can also be a great PITA.........
Probably. But that he is leading receivers better is for sure.
Yeah this is one adjustment that is made necessary by age. If you've been dedicated to staying in shape, over time muscle groups are going to get tighter without more stretching and mobility suffers. Rodgers takes care of himself so I'm sure he's addressing this - but hey at some point you can't do the things you did 10 years ago. That's life. Well, unless you're Tom Brady.
 

El Guapo

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Murphy announced the hiring of LaFleur, and I suspect that the odd decision-making silo thing is still in place between Murphy, Ball, and Gutekunst.

As for Rodgers and whether his performance was trailing off before Love was drafted (which I agree that it was), the other aspect that needs to be mentioned was that Rodgers had several years of injuries. There were two broken collarbones and the calf issue, and maybe something else that I am forgetting. It's a tough position to stay healthy at so I don't fault Rodgers, but coupling a decline in performance with an emerging injury history all led to the drafting of Love.
 

gopkrs

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Murphy announced the hiring of LaFleur, and I suspect that the odd decision-making silo thing is still in place between Murphy, Ball, and Gutekunst.

As for Rodgers and whether his performance was trailing off before Love was drafted (which I agree that it was), the other aspect that needs to be mentioned was that Rodgers had several years of injuries. There were two broken collarbones and the calf issue, and maybe something else that I am forgetting. It's a tough position to stay healthy at so I don't fault Rodgers, but coupling a decline in performance with an emerging injury history all led to the drafting of Love.
Lucky he wasn't playing 20 years ago. Times have definitely changed.
 

InGuteWeTrust

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Gute also feels J-Love can develop into a elite QB in the NFL. That is why he drafted him, and that is how he still feels. And that is why he isn't interested at all in trading J-Love.

All this BS about Gute feeling Aaron was in decline is just hogwash. Aaron and Gute are now close because some honest discussions were had between the two over the last year or so. Aaron now knows the actual facts.

Aaron feels the same way about J-Love that Gute does. He sees why Gute drafted him, and he knows Tom Clements will be very good for J-Love's development. Some of you will be quite surprised when you see Jordan play in the preseason this year after Tom has had his hands on him for a few months.

Aaron wants another Lombardi. That is his focus this season. Gute wants the same.
 

Heyjoe4

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How does that silo thing with Murphy work again? Is it still there?
Unfortunately yes. Gluten, MLF, and Ball all report to MM. At a minimum, MLF should report to Gluten. It’s a terrible org structure. Gluten has no control over the HC. He’s responsible if MLF ****s up, but he can’t do anything.
 

El Guapo

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All this BS about Gute feeling Aaron was in decline is just hogwash. Aaron and Gute are now close because some honest discussions were had between the two over the last year or so. Aaron now knows the actual facts.
I agree with everything else that you wrote, but wonder about this statement. If Gutekunst didn't think that Aaron was declining, then why did he draft Love in the 1st round?
 

Heyjoe4

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FWIW in this question about was Rodgers in decline when Gluten drafted Love? - the answer is a big NO! IMO. Gotta remember that McCarthy had gotten stale as a HC, Rodgers and I think a lot of other players had lost confidence in the HC and in that season when they whacked MM, players had just quit caring. So it's no coincidence that Rodgers, and a lot of other guys, got better under MLF.

Picking Love and (maybe) losing confidence in Rodgers was a huge mistake by Gluten. Picking MLF was a huge positive (and I'm crediting Gluten for the most part in that hire).
 

Poppa San

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Unfortunately yes. Gluten, MLF, and Ball all report to MM. At a minimum, MLF should report to Gluten. It’s a terrible org structure. Gluten has no control over the HC. He’s responsible if MLF ****s up, but he can’t do anything.
According to this place, the outside LB coach reports directly to Murphy. A lot of non-football people (marketing, legal, etc.) do also. Also at that site I see the 49ers, Falcons, and Eagles have a similar structure as far as HC and GM each reporting to a CEO / owner type of person. In Dallas, the owner is the GM.
 

captainWIMM

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That doesn't change the fact that Love was a terrible draft pick. It's unlikely GB will ever see any real value from Love - not on the field and not in a trade. I only hope Gluten does better when he really has to fill the QB position in a few years (or next year - who knows?).

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I'm not criticizing the selection of Love because of I don't like him as a prospect but that in my opinion it wasn't necessary to select any quarterback in the first round period. It's too early to fairly evaluate Love with it being possible that he develops into a decent starter at the NFL level. But I don't see that happening with the Packers.

As for Rodgers and whether his performance was trailing off before Love was drafted (which I agree that it was), the other aspect that needs to be mentioned was that Rodgers had several years of injuries. There were two broken collarbones and the calf issue, and maybe something else that I am forgetting.

In my opinion Rodgers having suffered two broken collarbones hasn't resulted in him being injury-prone. Especially as he hasn't missed a single game because of any other injury since 2010.

Gute also feels J-Love can develop into a elite QB in the NFL. That is why he drafted him, and that is how he still feels. And that is why he isn't interested at all in trading J-Love.

The Packers aren't interested in trading Love because they wouldn't receive decent value in return and would have to find a backup quarterback.

Aaron feels the same way about J-Love that Gute does. He sees why Gute drafted him, and he knows Tom Clements will be very good for J-Love's development.

I highly doubt anyone is currently expecting Love to develop into an elite quarterback after seeing him perform over the past two years.

Unfortunately yes. Gluten, MLF, and Ball all report to MM. At a minimum, MLF should report to Gluten. It’s a terrible org structure. Gluten has no control over the HC. He’s responsible if MLF ****s up, but he can’t do anything.

First of all I'm not sure the structure of Gutekunst, Ball and MLF all having to report to Murphy is still in place. In addition I'm quite sure Gutekunst has at least some control over head coaching decisions.

According to this place, the outside LB coach reports directly to Murphy.

I'm convinced that's bogus.
 

InGuteWeTrust

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I agree with everything else that you wrote, but wonder about this statement. If Gutekunst didn't think that Aaron was declining, then why did he draft Love in the 1st round?
Gute has always said he looks at the best players available at every position in every draft. He had said since 2018 that if there was a QB he really likes he would draft him with a first round pick. He was asked the same question before the 2019 draft and answered the same way. Not long before the 2020 draft he said something similar.

Gute wanted Justin Jefferson in the first round in 2020, but couldn't find a trade partner to move up high enough to get him. Then Justin was gone. Gute was not as high on any of the other WRs, but was very high on J-Love. He found a opportunity to go up and get J-Love. Jordan was the top player on his board after Justin Jefferson. Why would he not at least try to get his BPA when he picks? That is what he did.

Any good GM will tell you that the best time to draft your future QB is when you don't need a QB. A GMs job is to sustain the success of the franchise.

Some can disagree on what J-Love can become, but no one can deny that Gute has this team set up better than most teams in the present and future at QB. That is because of Gute going and getting his BPA in the first round of the 2020 draft.

Aaron loves Jordan like Gute does. Aaron is excited to see how Jordan develops under Tom Clements. All is well. Aaron is now 100% fine with the pick because he knows the facts above.

Aaron wants another Lombardi and could very well retire after getting that accomplished. Will that be after this season? Stay tuned.
 

El Guapo

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In my opinion Rodgers having suffered two broken collarbones hasn't resulted in him being injury-prone. Especially as he hasn't missed a single game because of any other injury since 2010.
You're making your statement out of context. The context was about why Gutekunst would have drafted a QB in the 1st round. InGuteWeTrust made a good argument for it above. Everyone else was pointing to Rodgers' falling numbers and I added in that he did have a recent injury history. You decided to make your statement in the context of 2022. Yes, the broken collarbones appear to have been one-time flukes, but at the time it was concerning. The calf also affected his play, so you carving that out by saying he didn't miss any games is misleading in terms of the conversation. Rodgers' play was declining, he had suffered several injuries in recent years (at that point), and any reasonable GM should have concluded the same as Gutekunst that his aging QB was starting to fall off. Combine that with a PBA perspective and one can see how the Packers get the Love pick.
 

El Guapo

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Gute has always said he looks at the best players available at every position in every draft. He had said since 2018 that if there was a QB he really likes he would draft him with a first round pick. He was asked the same question before the 2019 draft and answered the same way. Not long before the 2020 draft he said something similar.

Gute wanted Justin Jefferson in the first round in 2020, but couldn't find a trade partner to move up high enough to get him. Then Justin was gone. Gute was not as high on any of the other WRs, but was very high on J-Love. He found a opportunity to go up and get J-Love. Jordan was the top player on his board after Justin Jefferson. Why would he not at least try to get his BPA when he picks? That is what he did.

Any good GM will tell you that the best time to draft your future QB is when you don't need a QB. A GMs job is to sustain the success of the franchise.

Some can disagree on what J-Love can become, but no one can deny that Gute has this team set up better than most teams in the present and future at QB. That is because of Gute going and getting his BPA in the first round of the 2020 draft.

Aaron loves Jordan like Gute does. Aaron is excited to see how Jordan develops under Tom Clements. All is well. Aaron is now 100% fine with the pick because he knows the facts above.

Aaron wants another Lombardi and could very well retire after getting that accomplished. Will that be after this season? Stay tuned.
All great points. I think that the only hole that I see in the rationale is that Gutekunst traded up to get him. BPA strategy is usually about getting the best player at the position you're at. When a team moves up to get a player, I would argue that they are now chasing a need or perceived need.
 

InGuteWeTrust

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All great points. I think that the only hole that I see in the rationale is that Gutekunst traded up to get him. BPA strategy is usually about getting the best player at the position you're at. When a team moves up to get a player, I would argue that they are now chasing a need or perceived need.
Gute had Justin Jefferson rated high and also had J-Love rated high. Once he wasn't able to obtain Jefferson he made sure he didn't lose out on both players he really liked.

No disrespect, but there is zero factual evidence that when teams move up it is always based strictly on need. Sometimes a player a team has rated very high falls into the 20's, and they have a trade partner that is willing to do a deal, they then go get the best player on their board. Great GMs do whatever it takes to get the best football players regardless of need.
 

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