Giant stud n duds

[gopkrs]

I think LaFleur was going to change it up a bit anyway. And that means throwing on 1st and 2nd downs and not constantly leaving us at 3rd and 4. Imo he needs to continue doing this. Jacobs or no Jacobs. And I agree with others that both the run and the play action look smoother from under center. Now if we can only start stopping the run again.

 

[adambr2]

How folks hold health issues against a guy is beyond me. These are full grown, honestly oversized than typical specimens literally manhandling folks. Crap happens. LVN has been awesome arguably since about mid-season last year on, and even before that he was just that roller coaster young but raw guy.

Maybe we should be focusing a little more on NFL game readiness with top 15 1st round picks and not players that require a 3 year “young but raw” rollercoaster when an NFL rookie contract is 4-5 years.

 

[OldSchool101]

The Players and Coachers aren’t fibbing when they say any Win in this league is a good Win. Yet as insignificant as this Win was (and I didn’t want to say it and jinx us) this Win had major implications for our season. Possibly even more-so if Jacobs misses time.

Stud:
Defense
Yes.. for grinding it out. No doubt they made a Ton of mistakes, so it might sound like an odd labeling of “Stud”. Yet I have personally longed for a Defense that could have a mostly sloppy day, yet hold a team to 20 points in that slop. A Defense we say got shredded in the Run game, yet allowed 3.7 per carry.

Jameis did exactly what I thought he’d do (minus his Rushing TD, that’s more rare). He’s 100% equipped to push the ball downfield and threaten at times, yet his career MO has been that the more he airs it out, the more he makes bad decisions and peppers in poorly thrown balls. His INT is like 1.5:1 ratio. So It’s risky on surface to challenge Jameis to an Air Dual, but it’s playing the odds he’ll eventually force errors. Jameis was very fortunate he didn’t finish with more INT. Jeff saw this and allowed our guys to drop back and wait for an opportunity. That involved presenting 8 in the Box and then dropping 2 back into zones and it sacrificed some underneath Runs and some 15 yard zone fillers. Ultimately it because Winston’s demise. I said pregame I’d rather welcome a 33-24 (too lazy to find my post) air shootout than a 16-19 type ground game loss. Make it vertical as much as possible. Had we capitalized on 1-2 more INT this is a
2-score Win.

 

[tynimiller]

Maybe we should be focusing a little more on NFL game readiness with top 15 1st round picks and not players that require a 3 year “young but raw” rollercoaster when an NFL rookie contract is 4-5 years.

Couple things - the concept of not getting a project in the first round is of course always the goal, but prospect by nature are just that - prospects. LVN was a consensus top 20 pick due to his massive ceiling and what he is good at he was incredible at as a prospect, but fact still remains the vast majority of rookies are not studs out the gate - they just aren't. It is easy to forget this due to the ones getting the headlines and such, but fully understand that feeling - however that wasn't the point of the topic or comment back.

Fact is LVN has not been playing like a bust, and this front has clearly been less without him this year.

 

[Magooch]

So I just happened to check, and so far this season Jacobs and Wilson have the *exact* same yards per touch on the year. Now of course Jacobs has considerably more touches, but still I thought that was a bit interesting. Wilson is averaging a bit more in the rushing game, Jacobs in the passing game.

Having said that, I've wondered a lot this season if Jacobs hasn't been totally fit? At least to my eye it has often looked like Wilson is the more explosive of the two. Jacobs is more consistent and grind-it-out steady but Wilson's often seemed like the more "dangerous" player this season. I wonder why that is?

 

[adambr2]

So I just happened to check, and so far this season Jacobs and Wilson have the *exact* same yards per touch on the year. Now of course Jacobs has considerably more touches, but still I thought that was a bit interesting. Wilson is averaging a bit more in the rushing game, Jacobs in the passing game.

Having said that, I've wondered a lot this season if Jacobs hasn't been totally fit? At least to my eye it has often looked like Wilson is the more explosive of the two. Jacobs is more consistent and grind-it-out steady but Wilson's often seemed like the more "dangerous" player this season. I wonder why that is?

Not that Jacobs hasn’t earned his contract here but he has a pretty high base salary next year along with a pretty small cap hit.

I could see him potentially being a cap casualty next year, or back on a restructured deal.

Wilson isn’t the long-term answer, though. It’s a pretty weak draft class for RBs too, besides Love who won’t fall to them since they don’t have a pick til the 2nd.

Not sure off the top of my head who the FA options would be.

 

[tynimiller]

So I just happened to check, and so far this season Jacobs and Wilson have the *exact* same yards per touch on the year. Now of course Jacobs has considerably more touches, but still I thought that was a bit interesting. Wilson is averaging a bit more in the rushing game, Jacobs in the passing game.

Having said that, I've wondered a lot this season if Jacobs hasn't been totally fit? At least to my eye it has often looked like Wilson is the more explosive of the two. Jacobs is more consistent and grind-it-out steady but Wilson's often seemed like the more "dangerous" player this season. I wonder why that is?

Jacobs has played banged up and the one week (I think Arizona) was literally vomiting from illness going into the game. He's a gamer.

 

[Magooch]

Jacobs has played banged up and the one week (I think Arizona) was literally vomiting from illness going into the game. He's a gamer.

If that is the case, then much like the McManus situation I'd have to wonder why we are continuing to push reps towards less-than-100% players when we have players available who have shown themselves to be capable replacements, at least on a short-term basis... If we are trying to make a playoff run I would think it more valuable to get Jacobs back to 100% and let Wilson (who has been equally productive per-play) give him more rest than to keep giving Jacobs heavy reps each week...

 

[Magooch]

Just another little update for those who care:

After week 10, Love was 2nd in the league in EPA/play and 4th in completion percentage over expectation

With yesterday's game taken into account, Love moved back into 1st in EPA/play and 3rd in CPOE.

For some context here is the current Top 10 in QB EPA/play rankings (and a few other ones of note)

1. Jordan Love 0.285
2. Drake Maye 0.275
3. Josh Allen 0.269
4. Sam Darnold 0.246
5. Patrick Mahomes 0.238
6. Daniel Jones 0.229
7. Matt Stafford 0.222
8. Dak Prescott 0.210
9. Jared Goff 0.189
10. Jaxson Dart 0.178

12. Lamar Jackson 0.158
14. Jalen Hurts 0.141
21. Caleb Williams 0.071
23. Aaron Rodgers 0.066
28. Bryce Young 0.004
30. Joe Flacco -0.036
35. JJ McCarthy -0.243

 

[gopkrs]

If that is the case, then much like the McManus situation I'd have to wonder why we are continuing to push reps towards less-than-100% players when we have players available who have shown themselves to be capable replacements, at least on a short-term basis... If we are trying to make a playoff run I would think it more valuable to get Jacobs back to 100% and let Wilson (who has been equally productive per-play) give him more rest than to keep giving Jacobs heavy reps each week...

It may be simply doing things the way they have always been done. When it's not a do or die game, and the player has a chance of healing better; I agree with you.

 

[Pkrjones]

I don't think the run game problems have to do with Jacobs. Rather it is the ever-shifting and largely ineffective run blocking that has hampered the run game. Even with a healthy Jacobs, I'd like to see more of Wilson. And what is going on with Marshawn Lloyd?

With a healthy Jacobs we barely saw Wilson getting snaps. If Jacobs is out for a while we may see a little more of Brooks. No need for Lloyd right now, unless Jacobs is shelved (which I hope is NOT the case).

 

[OldSchool101]

Just another little update for those who care:

After week 10, Love was 2nd in the league in EPA/play and 4th in completion percentage over expectation

With yesterday's game taken into account, Love moved back into 1st in EPA/play and 3rd in CPOE.

For some context here is the current Top 10 in QB EPA/play rankings (and a few other ones of note)

1. Jordan Love 0.285
2. Drake Maye 0.275
3. Josh Allen 0.269
4. Sam Darnold 0.246
5. Patrick Mahomes 0.238
6. Daniel Jones 0.229
7. Matt Stafford 0.222
8. Dak Prescott 0.210
9. Jared Goff 0.189
10. Jaxson Dart 0.178

12. Lamar Jackson 0.158
14. Jalen Hurts 0.141
21. Caleb Williams 0.071
23. Aaron Rodgers 0.066
28. Bryce Young 0.004
30. Joe Flacco -0.036
35. JJ McCarthy -0.243

Great Stuff.

Love ranks #5 in QB rating (69.3).

Of the TOP 5 “QB ranking” (he’s pinned between Darnold and Stafford) only Darnold and Maye have also posted a better Passer Rating than Love’s (103.3%). -Although Darnold has thrown 10 INT to Love’s 3.


Remember, Jordan Love was the guy that was cause for “grave concern” for his perceived carelessness coming into the NFL. Within just 2.5 seasons of NFL Starts, Love has quietly become one of the most successful TD:INT ratio Passers in the league. So much so that when Jordan throws and INT? It becomes a topic of discussion for weeks about how careless he is. Yet where are his advocates when his previous consecutive 17 game stretch is
25 TD 3 INT?

 

[Magooch]

Not that Jacobs hasn’t earned his contract here but he has a pretty high base salary next year along with a pretty small cap hit.

I could see him potentially being a cap casualty next year, or back on a restructured deal.

Wilson isn’t the long-term answer, though. It’s a pretty weak draft class for RBs too, besides Love who won’t fall to them since they don’t have a pick til the 2nd.

Not sure off the top of my head who the FA options would be.

I would have to think Breece Hall is going to be the most coveted FA RB next year...
Others of note might include Travis Etienne, Rico Dowdle, Kenneth Walker...or there's this fella named AJ Dillon

 

[Pugger]

I'm hoping the NFLN replays the game in its entirety before I list my choices for Studs and Duds. We didn't get the game here in SW FL so we just saw a handful of highlights.

 

[milani]

Love, how did you not see that? That man was dropping freaking DIMES. I honestly think that could have been Love's best passing game from start to finish he's had.

Banks also had a resurgence game from first watch along the front, I look forward to the All22 to confirm that (usually do my studs and duds after full rewatch).

Evan Williams even before the INT played lights out and deserves recognition and one could argue Parsons as well.

The wind made it difficult. I cannot necessarily fault our kicker completely for that. The snap, the hold are impacted as well. Neither team attempted a FG and I doubt they would unless it was short or to win the game at the end.

 

[milani]

I think LaFleur was going to change it up a bit anyway. And that means throwing on 1st and 2nd downs and not constantly leaving us at 3rd and 4. Imo he needs to continue doing this. Jacobs or no Jacobs. And I agree with others that both the run and the play action look smoother from under center. Now if we can only start stopping the run again.

Depends on how these better defenses play us. Do they stack the box or do they blitz?

 

[milani]

I would have to think Breece Hall is going to be the most coveted FA RB next year...
Others of note might include Travis Etienne, Rico Dowdle, Kenneth Walker...or there's this fella named AJ Dillon

Definitely Dillon.

 

[Sanguine camper]

How is Love doing in yards and TD's? Yards move the chains and TD's are the real goal of any drive. The Packers receivers have played so poorly with bunches of dropped passes that it's extremely difficult to judge Love's performance. He's played well most of the time but his deep throws tend to hang up and are generally inaccurate.

I would say that the team around Love has greatly underperformed. Who on the offense is having a good season. It was Kraft but he's injured.

 

[tynimiller]

It's easy to judge Love's performance IMO. You can isolate what he does each play regardless of the moment the moment the ball is caught or not - Love's ability and performance in the play is not impacted by it.

 

[tynimiller]

How is Love doing in yards and TD's? Yards move the chains and TD's are the real goal of any drive. The Packers receivers have played so poorly with bunches of dropped passes that it's extremely difficult to judge Love's performance. He's played well most of the time but his deep throws tend to hang up and are generally inaccurate.

I would say that the team around Love has greatly underperformed. Who on the offense is having a good season. It was Kraft but he's injured.

Kraft was for sure.
Love is for sure.
Watson has shifted coverages, been getting open even if not getting ball and producing in the statlines as well.
Zach Tom has been a shield held by Thanos for a Tackle really.

Those are the first four that jumped straight to mind that are clearly having I'd argue great seasons which is better than good.

I think Jacobs and then Doubs in that order are the ones you likely could make a case for good being met or nearly.

 

[Magooch]

Love is a hard one for me to judge on raw "basic" stats alone right now. He is #9 in yards and #15 in passing TDs....

BUT as I have mentioned before on a per-play basis he is playing as well as anyone right now.
#1 in EPA/play and #1 in adjusted EPA/play
#4 in total completion % and #3 in CPOE
#6 in net yards per attempt and ANY/A
Top 10 in yards per completion, Y/A, AY/A, Y/C, pass success rate, INT percentage, passer rating, and QBR.

So all things considered I think the absolute WORST you can say for Love is that he's a top-10 guy right now. Even the raw numbers would bear that out IMO.

But that also doesn't take into account that he's been missing his most sure thing in his "security blanket" passcatcher Tucker Kraft. Or the injuries throughout the WR corps. Or the 6+ drops our WRs had yesterday (through the first half, they were sitting at 8 drops in the last 6 quarters of play) AND that Love has generally been limited by playcalling on top of that - 16th in total pass attempts and something like 15th in ADOT.

If we still had Kraft, a healthy WR corps who didn't have a bad case of the dropsies again, and playcalling that leaned more into his strengths and let him open up the game a bit more, I really think Love would pretty handily be in the top-5 conversation right now. And yes, that's a lot of "if's" or caveats attached but I also think that's just the reality of the situation and it's been a consistent theme throughout the year: when his guys are actually catching things and LaFleur just lets Love cook he's been as good as anyone

 

[Voyageur]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad the Packers didn't trade Willis when they could. His short stint on the field against the Giants netted us our first score of the game. Without him, and that drive, who knows what would have happened. Malik proved he can be a real relief pitcher in this league. The last guy I can recall saying was that way was George Blanda, and just before him Zeke Bratkowski. The kind of guys who step in and don't let the team take a step back.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad the Packers didn't trade Willis when they could. His short stint on the field against the Giants netted us our first score of the game. Without him, and that drive, who knows what would have happened. Malik proved he can be a real relief pitcher in this league. The last guy I can recall saying was that way was George Blanda, and just before him Zeke Bratkowski. The kind of guys who step in and don't let the team take a step back.

I 100% understood the standing on not trading as I would have understood if some team gave up solid return. I love Malik - right now I love that he is a Packer for sure!

 

[chemist]

After the last two weeks, I was definitely satisfied to just get a win again yesterday.

However, the 2025 version of the Packers has been one of the most frustrating ones to watch in recent memory. Almost every week, you watch them and think — “they’re ok, but they could be so much more.”

We saw “what they could be” in Week 1 and then we haven’t seen it since.

No doubt a frustrating season so far. I think the packers have much more,talent than they have shown.
The first few games of the season I saw an offense capable of putting up 25-30 points along with a suffocating defense.
For me things went off the rails in the dallas game. That should have been an easy win for us but a number of head scratching decisions by MLF put that game in jeopardy.
Ever since then I feel MLF has been trying to find himself again, trying to find the right course, trying to deal with injuries.
Kind of overwhelming dealing with all those decisions.
Just as I felt the dallas game sent us careening off in the wrong direction, I now feel the giants game has put us back on track. Getting that win will give MLF time to take a breath and evaluate what actually worked. The offense put up 27 points for the 5th time this season. Thats their number so we now know what path we need to follow going forward .

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Musgrave: I was hoping he would step up with Kraft out, but yikes. He offers nothing on special teams, less than nothing in blocking situations, and in spite of being a great athlete and seemingly a decent receiving option, also ends up feeling like he's often a liability in the passing game. Great example of potential without production.

Unless Musgraves is injured, all one has to do is look at the snap counts from yesterday, to know that even MLF and the coaches have all but given up on him.

In the second half against the Giants, John FitzPatrick played 16 snaps, Josh Whyle played 11 and Musgrave played only 2.

Whyle was a fricking roster addition at the end of August and has been sitting on the Practice Squad before Tucker got hurt.

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