Joe Whitt / Winston Moss FIRED - merged threads

Mondio

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I think you're hearing what you want to hear. Of course back ups should be ready to go. at the same time, having 3,4,5 back ups on the field is going to result in a pretty dramatic drop off in play regardless of the coach or team. It's going to be magnified more when the OLB position is weak and even more when the starters you do have, are only in their 1st year or 2. I'd like to see one team in the past 10 years that has had marginal pass rush and the youth or constant turnover in the 2ndary GB has had in the past 3-4 years that has had a good defensive backfield ranking. I still don't know who half the guys are playing for us back there anymore.

It's entirely different to plug in a back up safety for 3, 4 games with established vets around them over putting in your 5th safety in the past 3 weeks as a starter. and you've named Eddie Jackson, who is playing on a defense loaded with talent and all healthy and another player on another team with again, a loaded and established defensive roster. and that same viking roster missing 1 guy off the line and an injury to 1 or 2 DB's they went from 20something points a game to like 35+. that's 2 players on 2 different teams. They're examples of good coaching, but Sam Shields just doesn't cut it? I'd take shields before either of those guys too.

I think Randall was coached well, I think Rollins was coached well, I think Jackson is, I think Alexander is, I think King is. So was Tramon earlier in his stint here, just as he is now. But since they've either had a bad attitude, been injured or are clearly talented, they don't count? Tramon, Healthy King, Alexander and Jackson and this secondary looked pretty good earlier this year. that's not too shabby with 1 aging vet and 3 basically 1st year players. and they had what, 2,3 games together? You don't want to admit it, but they haven't had much of a chance either.

You think Jackson having a bad play or 2 in recent weeks is regression from coaching, but nothing to do with the loss of how many DB's and safeties in the past month? You could probably field a complete dime package with the players that have come and gone already in 1 season from this team and outside of Whitehead and Trading Dix, none were because they couldn't play. They were hurt.
 

gbgary

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I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.
i don't get the impression he does anything without due diligence. coaches had to weigh in on those decisions and i don't think the D has been any worse off.
 

XPack

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I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.
After years of TTs we have a 'impulsive' GM? There is no pleasing some of you.
 

GleefulGary

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Lets start with the good defenses in our division.

Bears:
CB: Amukamara: 1st round
CB: Fuller: 1st round
S: Eddie Jackson: 4th round
S: Adrian Amos: 5th round



Vikings:
CB: Rhodes: 1st round
CB: Waynes: 1st round
CB: Mike Hughes: 1st round (rookie)
S: Harrison Smith: 1st round
S: Anthony Harris: UDFA
CB: Mackensie Alexander: 2nd round

Now lets look at us.

Packers (current):
CB: Alexander: 1st round (rookie)
CB: Jackson: 2nd round (rookie)
S: Josh Jones: 2nd round
S: Tramon Williams: UDFA

At the beginning of the year it looked more like:
CB: King: 2nd round
CB: Williams: UDFA
CB: Alexander: 1st round (rookie)
S: HaHa: 1st round
S: Brice: UDFA

I don't think we look that different, draft stock wise, compared to other teams.
 

Zartan

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I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.

We dident release Dix traded him. As we all know he was never going to come back next season may as well get a draft pick for him while we still had the chance. Whitehead we dont know the whole store behind his release. There probably was more to it that they are not telling.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Lets start with the good defenses in our division.

Bears:
CB: Amukamara: 1st round
CB: Fuller: 1st round
S: Eddie Jackson: 4th round
S: Adrian Amos: 5th round



Vikings:
CB: Rhodes: 1st round
CB: Waynes: 1st round
CB: Mike Hughes: 1st round (rookie)
S: Harrison Smith: 1st round
S: Anthony Harris: UDFA
CB: Mackensie Alexander: 2nd round

Now lets look at us.

Packers (current):
CB: Alexander: 1st round (rookie)
CB: Jackson: 2nd round (rookie)
S: Josh Jones: 2nd round
S: Tramon Williams: UDFA

At the beginning of the year it looked more like:
CB: King: 2nd round
CB: Williams: UDFA
CB: Alexander: 1st round (rookie)
S: HaHa: 1st round
S: Brice: UDFA

I don't think we look that different, draft stock wise, compared to other teams.

2 points.....
  1. Is the Packers secondary anywhere near as good as either the Vikings or Bears?
  2. This thread isn't just about the investment in players currently on the team. Expand your list out to include 7 drafts for all 3 teams. I know it doesn't fit your argument not to include Dix, Randall, Rollins and Hayward. But players for the Bears and Vikings you listed were drafted as far back as 2011 (Amukamara by the Giants).
This thread was started at the beginning of the season and was a reflection on the last 4-7 years under Whitt. 7 drafts: 3-1st round picks, 5- 2nd Rd. picks on the secondary. Each year I hear the same thing "this guy was playing good for a bit, this guy got hurt, this guy was playing the wrong position, this guy had an attitude problem, this guy looks like he is legit", repeat and rinse and we still have a bad secondary.

One last point, besides Shields, what non 1st or 2nd rounder has Whitt coached up?
 

GleefulGary

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2 points.....
  1. Is the Packers secondary anywhere near as good as either the Vikings or Bears?
  2. This thread isn't just about the investment in players currently on the team. Expand your list out to include 7 drafts for all 3 teams. I know it doesn't fit your argument not to include Dix, Randall, Rollins and Hayward. But players for the Bears and Vikings you listed were drafted as far back as 2011 (Amukamara by the Giants).
This thread was started at the beginning of the season and was a reflection on the last 4-7 years under Whitt. 7 drafts: 3-1st round picks, 5- 2nd Rd. picks on the secondary. Each year I hear the same thing "this guy was playing good for a bit, this guy got hurt, this guy was playing the wrong position, this guy had an attitude problem, this guy looks like he is legit", repeat and rinse and we still have a bad secondary.

One last point, besides Shields, what non 1st or 2nd rounder has Whitt coached up?

You were the one who said 5 years, not me. So...saying I'm avoiding going further is silly. You set the parameters.

And no, our secondary isn't as good. Neither is our pass rush. Correlation there? Probably. But we are 6th in the league in passing yards allowed! That's pretty decent I guess.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Until this year, Whitt has not coached Dix. Including him in this conversation is ignorant. Continually including him after you've been told that, is blatant biased ignorance.

As for players he's coached up...all of them! Duh. But seriously, Sam Shields, Tramon Williams, Micah Hyde, Kevin King, Casey Heyward, Randall, Josh Jackson, Jaire Alexander. All have shown improvement from day one to their last day here under Whitt.

Now please remember that under Capers Whitt wasn't designing the scheme. He was teaching technique, and teaching the scheme. Even if he didn't like it, didn't want it, that's what he had to do.

You're not going to change your mind. You're going to keep talking about how he couldn't make Randall and Rollins All-Pro's, and how it's his fault players he didn't coach didn't progress like you wanted them to. And that's ok. I'm not going to continue this though. You enjoy yourself
 

GleefulGary

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One last point because I'm too lazy to edit...you can't blame Whitt for having safeties playing CB and guys getting hurt! He doesn't get to pick the guys, he just gets to coach them! It's a valid reason if the personnel doesn't fit! That's basic common sense. I mean, if I give you a typewriter and tell you to email me a document from it, is it your fault if you can't?
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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You were the one who said 5 years, not me. So...saying I'm avoiding going further is silly. You set the parameters.
Yet you didn't include all the players Whitt coached during that time, but want to go out 7 years with Viking and Bear players.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Until this year, Whitt has not coached Dix. Including him in this conversation is ignorant. Continually including him after you've been told that, is blatant biased ignorance.

As for players he's coached up...all of them! Duh. But seriously, Sam Shields, Tramon Williams, Micah Hyde, Kevin King, Casey Heyward, Randall, Josh Jackson, Jaire Alexander. All have shown improvement from day one to their last day here under Whitt.

LOL.....you want to include Micah Hyde as someone Whitt coached up? Hyde did squat as a CB his rookie year and once he was moved to Safety and not coached by Whitt, played much better. Yet I am the "ignorant" one and can't include Dix, who was under Whitt's guidance this year and still looked lost most of the time? How has Whitt coached up King? Randall and Jackson? He has coached them, but up? Really? I didn't see any of them play consistently well under Whitt. Sure, they have flashed a few things, but I would hope so as high as they were picked. As far as Hayward. I just don't get people crediting Joe Whitt with him. If they want to do that, than they better be prepared to say Whitt couldn't get him to play at the level he played at immediately in San Diego or Whitt didn't see the potential and fight to keep him on the team. Oh yes, Capers and TT's fault for bad scheme and not resigning as Joe had him ready for his break out season. Tramon Williams came to GB 2 years before Whitt and already was pretty well on his way to being good before Whitt took over. But again, you now want to go back 8 or 9 years, to include someone you think fits your argument. Should we include Devon House, who hardly did a thing while being coached by Whitt and then heads to Jacksonville and has a career season? Again, I'm sure in your mind that was solely on Capers and TT.

I really don't know what your definition of "coached up" is. All of these high round picks have appeared to be anything but coached up. They all had pretty good skills coming in, thus why they were drafted high, but were they tackling better, great in coverage, assignment sure, etc, under Whitt? Basically, did they improve, step up their game and become a consistently better player (while in Green Bay) like we have seen with players like Kenny Clark, Blake Martinez, Corey Linsley, Bahk, Lane Taylor, Mike Daniels, Aaron Jones, Davante Adams, Aaron Rodgers?

7 DB's selected in the 1st or 2nd round in the last 5 years, 7 out 0f 10 available picks! and yet we still don't have a solid secondary, we should have a fricking fortress back there by now. Imagine if we put that kind of draft capital in WR's, LB's or our OL?
 
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PackerfaninCarolina

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Most of my memories of Hyde were yelling at the TV over the way he was being used to cover TEs, though that was more likely Capers's doing more so than Whitt.

The way things are going in this thread, Whitt's as polarized here as just about everyone else on this coaching staff. Well, except for maybe Zook who I would say is probably unanimously hated by Packer nation. Either way though, Whitt will be gone not because people want him to be but because nobody on MM's staff is safe and given what just happened to Moss, Whitt probably knows his days in 1265 are numbered.
 

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7 DB's selected in the 1st or 2nd round in the last 5 years, 7 out 0f 10 available picks! and yet we still don't have a solid secondary, we should have a fricking fortress back there by now. Imagine if we put that kind of draft capital in WR's, LB's or our OL?

I more or less found out in another thread that Mondio and Janis are not interested in that.
 

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The thread management on this site is whacked. How does Winston Moss' firing get merged with a September "fire Joe Whitt" thread? Insane.
 

Jerellh528

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We’ve spent a lot of draft picks, and high picks on secondary players. We haven’t produced a rookie really that has panned out for us in a while, our last really good cb was shields, although Alexander looks promising.
We’ve also seen guys that we’ve had here on the team underperform and go elsewhere and become pro bowlers or perform at higher levels. Not sure who the blame goes to for all that, but TT and Capers are both essentially gone now, the last person standing from our bad run in the secondary the past handful of years is Whitt jr.
If Pettine stays, imo he should replace Whitt jr with someone he hand selects for his defense. It would also help to get a new perspective and a different coaching style of things, Whitt has been doing basically the same thing for us for a long time now and the results haven’t been good despite having some talented guys. I think Whitt jr has given us all he has as a coach and we should move on.
 

Mondio

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We’ve spent a lot of draft picks, and high picks on secondary players. We haven’t produced a rookie really that has panned out for us in a while, our last really good cb was shields, although Alexander looks promising.
We’ve also seen guys that we’ve had here on the team underperform and go elsewhere and become pro bowlers or perform at higher levels. Not sure who the blame goes to for all that, but TT and Capers are both essentially gone now, the last person standing from our bad run in the secondary the past handful of years is Whitt jr.
If Pettine stays, imo he should replace Whitt jr with someone he hand selects for his defense. It would also help to get a new perspective and a different coaching style of things, Whitt has been doing basically the same thing for us for a long time now and the results haven’t been good despite having some talented guys. I think Whitt jr has given us all he has as a coach and we should move on.
One question,

When have all those "talented" guys been on the field together? Or even mostly together? We had about 3 games this year, and they really looked like a pretty good unit. I can go back and find all the posts talking about how they looked like a nice young strength of the team again. But I suppose, there are a lot of other teams with 2 rookie DB's coupled with guys like Raven Greene, Tony Brown, Will Redomond, Ibraheim Campbell that are just locking it down right? Yes there have been talented guys taken here, the 2nd part of that equation is having those guys healthy and on the field. That's happened right?

Seriously, I can pluck a DB or 2 from MN and a DLineman and they'll go from top 5 to 25 in points. We've seen it happen.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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One question,

When have all those "talented" guys been on the field together? Or even mostly together? We had about 3 games this year, and they really looked like a pretty good unit. I can go back and find all the posts talking about how they looked like a nice young strength of the team again. But I suppose, there are a lot of other teams with 2 rookie DB's coupled with guys like Raven Greene, Tony Brown, Will Redomond, Ibraheim Campbell that are just locking it down right? Yes there have been talented guys taken here, the 2nd part of that equation is having those guys healthy and on the field. That's happened right?

Seriously, I can pluck a DB or 2 from MN and a DLineman and they'll go from top 5 to 25 in points. We've seen it happen.

Again, since you keep repeating yourself I will do the same. This isn't just about the secondary as a whole, its about each player that has come through Green Bay and coached by Whitt. Besides JA, what guy in the secondary has individually been a consistently good player? Which player has gone from a "C" to a "B or A"? We have seen the same guys look decent one week and come back the next week missing tackles, blowing coverage, etc.
 

Mondio

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They’ve been named, multiple times. You think guys come from college and perform against NFL without coaching. I think you’re wrong.

When most of those guys are out there and healthy the unit looks good going back to Hayward and Hyde and Rollins and Randall and the rest. When it hasn’t looked good it’s been because of lots of injury and new players.

I see it affect every single team in the league, but you attribute it to Whitt and think it’s unique to GB
 

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My Respect for Moss, has skyrocketed exponentially. He was brought in on the coach by Cowherd today, Colin was trying his damndest to put Rodgers in a negative light, and Moss didn't take the bait. You can tell Colin wasn't too happy.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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My Respect for Moss, has skyrocketed exponentially. He was brought in on the coach by Cowherd today, Colin was trying his damndest to put Rodgers in a negative light, and Moss didn't take the bait. You can tell Colin wasn't too happy.
Randy The Moon Moss? Link please :)
 

Jerellh528

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My Respect for Moss, has skyrocketed exponentially. He was brought in on the coach by Cowherd today, Colin was trying his damndest to put Rodgers in a negative light, and Moss didn't take the bait. You can tell Colin wasn't too happy.

Eh, I kinda felt like Moss was trying to play the whole “insult hidden within a compliment” type thing.

Like when Cowherd asked about Rodgers leadership, Moss goes on about Brees, Brady, Wilson and how they’re leaders and then he says that’s not Rodgers “cup of tea”. But then says you can’t blame Rodgers because that might not be in his dna.

Or when cowherd asks Moss if Rodgers got McCarthy fired, Moss takes an unnecessarily long and thoughtful pause only to say that Murphy fired McCarthy. Like yeah we know that already, why the long pause to put doubt in there.

The best thing about the Moss interview was that he flat out blatantly said he doesn’t think McDaniels would be a good head coach for us. It’s rare for a coach/former coach to be so transparent in the media with their opinion of another coaches ability to perform a job.
 

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