Fire Joe Barry

realitybytez

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That part maybe. However I still think 1 road game to start the season is not enough information. My first job I worked for Perkins Cake n Steak and started as a bus boy (1983?) The first day on the job I was vacuuming the restaurant and I passed by the GM (Jack) in a booth seat doing financials. I rolled over the cord and it got sucked into the vacuum right next to him and of course I had trouble finding the switch to cut it off. Jack watched me fight with that vacuum and when I finally turned it off he was looking at me with this look like he was going to fire me on the spot!

I ended up being the fastest hardest working bus boy they ever had. I could wash dishes and 3 bus boys couldn’t catch up.. Jack would ask me to go out and help them bus tables! I did 2 jobs to 3 peoples 1 job! I went Host/cashier.. promoted to prep cook .. then line cook in 18 months. They begged me to stay when I put on notice and left for the Hospitality/Hotel industry.

Now you can tell me they had good reason to fire that busboy he completely ruined a good, expensive commercial grade vacuum. But reality is you use prudence and slow down and give people adequate time to prove their worth. We’re human we make mistakes and the good DC’s find ways to correct those and win. 1 ruined vacuum (or game) isn’t adequate info. TI determine worth.
I might agree with you after 6 losses though.

cool story, oldschool. i worked in hospitality from 1997 to 2016. didn't really love it though. started out in audio-visual, worked my way up to it manager, and eventually became a director of accounting.
 

GreenNGold_81

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Z is held out today, not sure why. Interestingly, Will Fuller is also held out today. Is a trade incoming? (lol).
 

mradtke66

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I did not say it was the linebackers. I said they were not put in the right places. That is on the coach.

Fair. I perhaps misread your post.

I will say I'm annoyed--we appeared to play a lot of base defense. I would have expected better outcomes, if only due to body counts.
 

mradtke66

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Now you can tell me they had good reason to fire that busboy he completely ruined a good, expensive commercial grade vacuum. But reality is you use prudence and slow down and give people adequate time to prove their worth. We’re human we make mistakes and the good DC’s find ways to correct those and win. 1 ruined vacuum (or game) isn’t adequate info. TI determine worth.
I might agree with you after 6 losses though.

Recently, I was asked if I was going to fire an employee who made a mistake that cost the company $600,000. No, I replied, I just spent $600,000 training him. Why would I want somebody to hire his experience?”

Thomas John Watson Sr., IBM
 
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Recently, I was asked if I was going to fire an employee who made a mistake that cost the company $600,000. No, I replied, I just spent $600,000 training him. Why would I want somebody to hire his experience?”

Thomas John Watson Sr., IBM
$750,000 though? and he’s gone! That’s gonna buy me lots of vacuums! :x3:
 

Sunshinepacker

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That part maybe. However I still think 1 road game to start the season is not enough information. My first job I worked for Perkins Cake n Steak and started as a bus boy (1983?) The first day on the job I was vacuuming the restaurant and I passed by the GM (Jack) in a booth seat doing financials. I rolled over the cord and it got sucked into the vacuum right next to him and of course I had trouble finding the switch to cut it off. Jack watched me fight with that vacuum and when I finally turned it off he was looking at me with this look like he was going to fire me on the spot!

I ended up being the fastest hardest working bus boy they ever had. I could wash dishes and 3 bus boys couldn’t catch up.. Jack would ask me to go out and help them bus tables! I did 2 jobs to 3 peoples 1 job! I went Host/cashier.. promoted to prep cook .. then line cook in 18 months. They begged me to stay when I put on notice and left for the Hospitality/Hotel industry.

Now you can tell me they had good reason to fire that busboy he completely ruined a good, expensive commercial grade vacuum. But reality is you use prudence and slow down and give people adequate time to prove their worth. We’re human we make mistakes and the good DC’s find ways to correct those and win. 1 ruined vacuum (or game) isn’t adequate info. TI determine worth.
I might agree with you after 6 losses though.
You're ignoring that the busboy the Packers hired has burned down prior restaurants though.
 

milani

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If you look at the box score you will see that the Saints ran us to death. You have to stop the run first. I think we have some talent at inside linebacker. Probably McDuffie and Barnes will end up playing. And just maybe Burks has turned a corner. But anyway, the linebackers were not put in a position to stop the run. Some of those alignment just screamed "run on us, I dare you." And they did. We played on our heals imho. The inside linebackers are key whether we like it or not.
Stopping the run has been an issue for a decade at least. And you think that would be a focus whether it was Gute or Thompson. But no. They hire DCs that play the pass first and draft pass defenders but not run stoppers. I thought Pettine was making progress in 2019 but that was short lived. Until we build a DL and a bench with those kind of bodies teams will gash us.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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That part maybe. However I still think 1 road game to start the season is not enough information. My first job I worked for Perkins Cake n Steak and started as a bus boy (1983?) The first day on the job I was vacuuming the restaurant and I passed by the GM (Jack) in a booth seat doing financials. I rolled over the cord and it got sucked into the vacuum right next to him and of course I had trouble finding the switch to cut it off. Jack watched me fight with that vacuum and when I finally turned it off he was looking at me with this look like he was going to fire me on the spot!

I ended up being the fastest hardest working bus boy they ever had. I could wash dishes and 3 bus boys couldn’t catch up.. Jack would ask me to go out and help them bus tables! I did 2 jobs to 3 peoples 1 job! I went Host/cashier.. promoted to prep cook .. then line cook in 18 months. They begged me to stay when I put on notice and left for the Hospitality/Hotel industry.

Now you can tell me they had good reason to fire that busboy he completely ruined a good, expensive commercial grade vacuum. But reality is you use prudence and slow down and give people adequate time to prove their worth. We’re human we make mistakes and the good DC’s find ways to correct those and win. 1 ruined vacuum (or game) isn’t adequate info. TI determine worth.
I might agree with you after 6 losses though.

Quite a good story of just how much hard work pays off for sure.

I agree for the most part except for one thing. This isn't Barry's first job as a defensive coordinator. He is definitely a retread with a terrible resume who has supposedly "reinvented" himself based on now running a 3-4 defense now as opposed to the 4-3 he used to run. But thus far given his history, he has only proven to be a good linebackers coach and nothing more.

I would say your analogy would be spot on if Barry was a young first time DC making his first go round. But he isn't and I would say he's the equivalent of Josh McDaniels on defense. Worked under great coaches but screw ups when asked to coordinate defenses or become a head coach.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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i know he hasn't been here long, but i don't see any evidence of that either.

Wasn't talking about our LBs as much as when he only coached LBs in Tampa in 2002 and the Rams last year. In other words, only a good position coach and nothing more, though he probably needs quality LBs as well to make him look good.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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I wonder if they said “fire PackerfaninCarolina” after your first day at work?????

Seriously what the f***king hell is with this stupid "first day at work" bulls**t? THIS IS NOT JOE BARRY'S FIRST ANYTHING!!!

Enough of this BS already and man, some posters really need the word "retread" bashed into their heads with a 2x4.
 

captainWIMM

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If you look at the box score you will see that the Saints ran us to death. You have to stop the run first. I think we have some talent at inside linebacker. Probably McDuffie and Barnes will end up playing. And just maybe Burks has turned a corner. But anyway, the linebackers were not put in a position to stop the run. Some of those alignment just screamed "run on us, I dare you." And they did. We played on our heals imho. The inside linebackers are key whether we like it or not.

Both the defensive line and inside linebackers lack talent resulting in teams having success running against the Packers. Unfortunately I don't believe there's a way to fix that against good rushing offenses this season.
 

gopkrs

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Both the defensive line and inside linebackers lack talent resulting in teams having success running against the Packers. Unfortunately I don't believe there's a way to fix that against good rushing offenses this season.
Well I will say it one last time in a different way. The middle linebackers need to be lined up in a traditional manner. That is not too deep and both in the middle. They need to be looking for holes in the line both for stopping the run and blitzing. And they need to be able to move laterally for the end runs. I saw line-ups where I could really only see one M. Linebacker and he was deep and to the side. That won't make it. Probably put King or Black defending close in the middle (slot defender?) but let the linebackers make plays on 1st and 2nd downs. If we have to adjust; then we have to adjust. But I think the linebackers have to be in the middle and not too deep to begin with. Barnes will be good. If Campbell does not hack it we have to try McDuffie or Burks. imho the inside linebackers are key to getting into 3rd down situations. If we keep those inside linebackers in pass mode; then I don't think they will look very good and you will say that we just don't have talent.
 

mradtke66

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Well I will say it one last time in a different way. The middle linebackers need to be lined up in a traditional manner. That is not too deep and both in the middle. They need to be looking for holes in the line both for stopping the run and blitzing. And they need to be able to move laterally for the end runs. I saw line-ups where I could really only see one M. Linebacker and he was deep and to the side.

I don't recall seeing such plays (not that didn't happen, just I don't remember them), but I will say that is not necessarily true.

Depending on the offensive personnel (and thus matching defensive personnel) and the playcall, the ILB may need to slide due to coverage responsibilities.

Against 11, one would counter w/ Nickel. Assuming a safe, Man-2 defense, one ILB has the RB, one has the TE (the three corners taking the 3 receivers.) Your RB motions out wide, someone has to follow him. Your TE flexes from inline to a slot? Someone has to go with him.

You really only need both ILBs in the middle when you have two running backs in the backfield, but that solves the man-to-man coverage problem by itself. In the run game, you've got your gaps covered. The first ILB playside should take out the FB, the backside should scrape over the top and clean up.

(As an aside: As far as I can tell, this is the same thing that caused Preston to be split out wide and "look like a CB." He had coverage responsibilities, his man went wide, he followed. Yeah, you'd prefer him to stay in the box, but if the offense motions, you're potentially stuck with "Preston stays closer to the ball, but now has man to man against a WR" vs. "Preston leaves the box, but is in man to man against a fullback lined up as a flanker." Which is the lesser evil?)
 

gopkrs

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By inside I mean basically within or on the two DEs. And I disagree we can only use one. I think, for example, that Tampa Bay uses two middle linebackers. We need one to cover one side and the other to cover the other side imho. But I will watch the linebackers closely Monday to see where they are lining up and then, importantly, what they are doing at the snap. I just don't think we should be too cute as to trying to fake out the O. We should be more reactive.
 

mradtke66

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By inside I mean basically within or on the two DEs. And I disagree we can only use one. I think, for example, that Tampa Bay uses two middle linebackers. We need one to cover one side and the other to cover the other side imho. But I will watch the linebackers closely Monday to see where they are lining up and then, importantly, what they are doing at the snap. I just don't think we should be too cute as to trying to fake out the O. We should be more reactive.

I don't think we're using a single ILB, except when we go to Dime. And we should in theory see less of that in Barry's scheme.

As far as Tampa using two MLBs...that's where the 3-4/4-3 thing starts to blur. I haven't watched them a ton, but they look like a 4-3 under team to me. (Based on this image for example https://cdn.footballoutsiders.net/files/inline-images/FilmRoom-102920-1.png)

By alignment, it'd be easy to say they have two MLBs. In a 4-3 under, (Seattle base) the line shifts right (weak) and the linebackers shift left (strong) to create what looks like a 3-4 with the "right OLB" having his hand in the dirt, ta-da, he's a defensive end. You still end up with a MIKE and WILL.

The biggest difference (or one of the ways I try to differentiate 3-4 vs. 4-3 under is to look at what gaps the off-the-ball linebackers are covering. Again, referencing the same image above, the left off-ball is in the A gap, the right in the B gap but he's cheated over enough that he's probably free. In 3-4s, the weak ILB tends to be further inside than a weak OLB in a 4-3.

Of course, all of that is way over simplified...like telling kids you can't take the square root of a negative number.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Based on ONE game ? Jesus, tough crowd !

Are we supposed to ignore his history as DC in other places? Look, I have hope he'll turn it around but that hope is literally based on nothing but the fact that he's the Packer's DC now. Every other time he's been a DC he has coached one of the three worst defenses in the NFL.
 

gopkrs

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I don't think we're using a single ILB, except when we go to Dime. And we should in theory see less of that in Barry's scheme.

As far as Tampa using two MLBs...that's where the 3-4/4-3 thing starts to blur. I haven't watched them a ton, but they look like a 4-3 under team to me. (Based on this image for example https://cdn.footballoutsiders.net/files/inline-images/FilmRoom-102920-1.png)

By alignment, it'd be easy to say they have two MLBs. In a 4-3 under, (Seattle base) the line shifts right (weak) and the linebackers shift left (strong) to create what looks like a 3-4 with the "right OLB" having his hand in the dirt, ta-da, he's a defensive end. You still end up with a MIKE and WILL.

The biggest difference (or one of the ways I try to differentiate 3-4 vs. 4-3 under is to look at what gaps the off-the-ball linebackers are covering. Again, referencing the same image above, the left off-ball is in the A gap, the right in the B gap but he's cheated over enough that he's probably free. In 3-4s, the weak ILB tends to be further inside than a weak OLB in a 4-3.

Of course, all of that is way over simplified...like telling kids you can't take the square root of a negative number.
The way I am looking at it is that we have two linebackers and two DEs. With who knows in the middle. Those linebackers need to be somewhere in the middle if we want to stop the run. Even if they are both on the DEs. And not too deep (5 yards?) and not playing on their heels. They need to be able to come up fast and hard in order to help our pitiful D line. If you are playing Preston in coverage (which I think is a mistake), then he is wider and deeper and just means, I think, that the linebackers need to be up where I said they should be. And the DEs need to think about containing. We just cannot allow QBs to run on us. If that means getting to them slower...so be it. But also, it should open up a lane I hope, for a linebacker to blitz. Anyway I'm gonna try and watch what our two linebackers are doing this game. Making one real good play does not cut it. I'm not gonna say one guy played well because he made a splash play.
 

mradtke66

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Those linebackers need to be somewhere in the middle if we want to stop the run.

In general, yes, but one still has to account for what the offense is doing. Once the shift and motion, stuff can get weird.

Even if they are both on the DEs. And not too deep (5 yards?) and not playing on their heels. They need to be able to come up fast and hard in order to help our pitiful D line.

Generally accurate.

If you are playing Preston in coverage (which I think is a mistake),

If you're in base 3-4, one of the OLBs needs to drop most of the time. Would you rather it be Z?

And the DEs need to think about containing.

True, but in our scheme, that's often an OLB (I prefer Edge to eliminate some confusion, but it'll always exist.)
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Are we supposed to ignore his history as DC in other places? Look, I have hope he'll turn it around but that hope is literally based on nothing but the fact that he's the Packer's DC now. Every other time he's been a DC he has coached one of the three worst defenses in the NFL.

Ill tell ya, you'd think with Wikipedia being invented people around here would know how to at least use that to look up Barry's history
 
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