Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Sunshinepacker]

Unless we see a total melt down on Sunday, and that forcing the Packers season to end, Barry will more than likely be back next year.

Until Gary went down, the packers defense had more first and second round snaps than any other team in football and the defense stunk. Barry needs to go or, yet again, this team is just trusting Rodgers to carry the day while the defense flounders around.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don’t believe Barry has adjusted. I think he has been forced by the players/and or Lefleur to play a more aggressive style…

If there's any truth to that the Packers need to move on from Barry after the season.

Adjustments are both Macro and Micro.
Since week 8 we have allowed a total of 17 points in the 4th quarter and OT. 14 of those points were in Garbage time last week after we pulled our starters.

That means 3 points were scored in nearly 9 quarters over 8 contests (including OT). We’ve completely dominated in the end of games 4th quarter.
The only reason I knew that is the stat came up by the announcers as they commented on our dominant Defensive performance last week.

I’m not saying I necessarily love Barry. But if we’re talking in game adjustments that’s a pretty impressive stat. Someone show me 1 NFL team that had allowed less than 3 points in 4th quarter since week 8 this season.

Those numbers are a bit off though. While the Packers didn't allow any points in the fourth quarter in the previous three games before the one against the Vikings they had allowed a total of 20 points in the seven preceding the one on Sunday. That's still pretty impressive in my opinion.

 

[Mondio]

I don't know what to think of Barry. I'd rather overall, he be replaced. For much of the season, we've had players that were too talented individually to be playing on a defense that performed so poorly. and we'd see this within halves of a game. Come out and just look lost for an entire half. We'd be in a hole and then they'd actually play pretty decently and hold teams to very little. It was our offense that couldn't catch back up or score enough at times. So it kind of shows Barry could make adjustments in game. But then the next week we'd come out and get gashed in the same way we did the week before to start the game. Week after week that seemed to be the pattern.

Last year one of the biggest things I noted was how we'd give up some catches buy guys always seemed to be tackled immediately. Our run defense was always up and down overall always looked poor by numbers but in games and situations to me it seemed to give up yards early, and tighten up later, often times to the point teams would abandon it. But then this year for 3/4 of the season we couldn't stop any run or cover any receiver. Especially on 3rd and 17 or more it always seems.

the last game, I didn't even recognize this defense. It's what I thought we'd have all year, why am I just seeing it now? and what changed? why does it seem like some in game adjustments can be made, but week to week it's the same? who precipitated this latest change? is this a sign of things to come or just a flash in the pan? IMO, this is what the defense should have looked like all year, so i'm hopeful they figured something out. But history tells me, they could swing back the other way just as quickly with Barry at the helm.

 

[Voyageur]

The stat that matters to me is the fact that they've corrected problems, and play solid defense during 4th quarters. That means they can come back from some deficits, as long as they aren't too big. The Packers need to gear up the offense to be a scoring machine late in the game. Obviously that has worked to a degree, the second half of this season.

I'm not saying this will happen, but I've always believed you don't worry as much about the team early in the season that looks like a world beater. You look at the team late in the season, that becomes a giant killer, and moves up to capture an opportunity to play for the championship. They may not win it, but along the way, they are more than capable of taking out a top contender, and if the stars align right, they could be the champions as well. I look back at a Packers team that was a wild card entry not that long ago, that walked away with a Lombardi Trophy.

 

[gopkrs]

I think no matter who we play and no matter if their #1 W/O deserves it; we should play the same type D and put Jaire on their #1 most of the time. It appears to be a much more suffocating defense.

 

[Magooch]

Painting with a very broad brush I think there are more or less two criteria I consider when "evaluating" a particular coach.

First is simply to ask: Is this person a part of the "problem" or a part of the "solution"?

With that I mean...if we were looking for what it takes to get our defense to a championship-winning level - Is Joe Barry one of the necessary pieces to get it there? Or are we presently still trying to get it to that level *because* of Joe Barry? When we try and consider the immediate future for this team...are we better off with Barry at the helm as opposed to someone else?

Second is similar: Is this person getting the most out of the players/talent at their disposal? Great coaches are able to take a unit and help it to perform at a level that is greater than the sum of its parts; poor coaches are able to take a unit and have it performing at a level that's less than the sum of its parts. In general, has the defense performed below, at, or above its "talent level" with Barry in charge? Would someone else be able to produce a better result/product with the same players, or is what we're seeing under Barry presently the "ceiling" given the talent/personnel we have at our disposal?

Again these are two fairly broad-stroke measures and certainly not all-inclusive, but then again I'm not in a position to actually make that change in the first place, so it's whatever...

I guess then I would say that you can more or less land in a couple of places.

1. If you think that Barry is part of "the solution" and we're better off with him rather than someone else - if you think that he is going to be a factor that helps push our defense to a championship-winning level - if you believe that he has our defense performing at or above its "talent level" and that he is getting the most out of the players that have been afforded to him - then he should stay.

2. If you think that Barry is rather part of "the problem" and that our defense is not presently performing at a championship level because Barry is in charge - if you believe that we would be better off with someone else - if you feel that our defense is not currently living up to its potential and that he is not maximizing the talent at his disposal - then he should go.

I'm not 100% sure one way or another but I lean towards #2. While things have improved lately I still think it's fair to say that in general we've not often played at a level you'd expect considering the talent that's been provided on defense and I don't think it's a stretch to say that a better coordinator would be able to get more out of the same group of players.

 

[OldSchool101]

If there's any truth to that the Packers need to move on from Barry after the season.



Those numbers are a bit off though. While the Packers didn't allow any points in the fourth quarter in the previous three games before the one against the Vikings they had allowed a total of 20 points in the seven preceding the one on Sunday. That's still pretty impressive in my opinion.

Good catch. I relooked at it and I missed a couple. Although while doing that revisit. I noticed that Barry did hold the last 9 teams to 36pts and 34 points in the 3rd n 4th qtr respectively. 7.77 pts per half including garbage points and throwing in an OT quarter (Cowboys) pr 6.22 per half not including the final 7.5 minutes of last weeks game.

Include the entire season? We allowed 9.75 points per second half. Plus 0 points in our 2 OT quarters

Point being we’ve finished games strong and I think that points to doing well making in-game adjustments, which is the argument I was making pro Barry. I don’t think anyone can firmly argue he’s poor to adjust intra-game. If anything He’s one of the better in the league at that part.

Barry is not as capable in the Macro aspect though. He’s allowed 25.63/GM over the final 8 contests, which hurt his first 8 games points allowed average of 20.37/GM

 

[PackAttack12]

So if LaFleur and others brought about this change over the bye week, ok fine. But how long until other teams figure out what the Packers are doing? And how do they adjust? And is Barry capable of doing that?

I'm going to guess no.

 

[milani]

Until Gary went down, the packers defense had more first and second round snaps than any other team in football and the defense stunk. Barry needs to go or, yet again, this team is just trusting Rodgers to carry the day while the defense flounders around.

Well, for years and years throughout the Thompson era the team DID trust Rodgers to carry the day while the D floundered around.

 

[OldSchool101]

Until Gary went down, the packers defense had more first and second round snaps than any other team in football and the defense stunk. Barry needs to go or, yet again, this team is just trusting Rodgers to carry the day while the defense flounders around.

Through the first 9 contests, the Defense with Rashan Gary held opponents to 20.88 pts/gm. Our Offense scored 17.0 points per game through that same period.
If we were to rank those today?our Offense would be ranked 29th in scoring (splitting the Steelers and Colts) while Our Defense would be ranked 12th.

Our Defense wasn’t that terrible for those 9 games, they were better than average. Our Offense was bordering on horrific. An offense scoring Similar to our Defense (12th overall) would’ve had a 5-4 record. Today we be sitting at 10-6 and it would include a pair of Wins against a 11-5 Minnesota leader (meaning we’d own a tiebreaker)

If our Offense through those 9 games played only as good as our Defense did with Gary? (12th ranked) We’d literally be a #6 lock and still fighting for a #3 seed or #5 seed and a Division championship this week. That’s how bad our sluggish Offense hurt us.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Through the first 9 contests, the Defense with Rashan Gary held opponents to 20.88 pts/gm. Our Offense scored 17.0 points per game through that same period.
If we were to rank those today?our Offense would be ranked 29th in scoring (splitting the Steelers and Colts) while Our Defense would be ranked 12th.

Our Defense wasn’t that terrible for those 9 games, they were better than average. Our Offense was bordering on horrific. An offense scoring Similar to our Defense (12th overall) would’ve had a 5-4 record. Today we be sitting at 10-6 and it would include a pair of Wins against a 11-5 Minnesota leader (meaning we’d own a tiebreaker)

If our Offense played only as good as our Defense did with Gary? We’d literally be a #6 lock and still fighting for a #3 seed and Division championship this week. That’s how bad our sluggish Offense hurt us.

Most first and second round snaps in the entire league for a slightly above average defense...that's not a good defense (pun intended) of Barry. "Look fellas, we've crippled our offense by focusing on the defense soooo much that we're finally fielding a slightly above average defense while turning our elite offense into garbage!"

With the number of high capital draft picks the Packers have spent on defense, either the GM is awful or the DC is misusing/coaching the players.

 

[OldSchool101]

Most first and second round snaps in the entire league for a slightly above average defense...that's not a good defense (pun intended) of Barry. "Look fellas, we've crippled our offense by focusing on the defense soooo much that we're finally fielding a slightly above average defense while turning our elite offense into garbage!"

With the number of high capital draft picks the Packers have spent on defense, either the GM is awful or the DC is misusing/coaching the players.

We also paid this QB to come in and properly prepare and just bury teams.
17.0 average through 9 games on Offense? I understand a little regression.. but 29th in the league after 9 games?? Really? For $50mil?

This Defense and our Running game have kept us in play this season. Maybe not the top#5-8 unit I though we’d be, but it’s just as much our Offenses fault they couldn’t get out of their own way.

That said. Much will be determined Sunday night. Detroit is a very good Offense. I don’t want anymore excuses if we handle them again.
Fire him if you want. But Give the guy credit when he completely shuts down a top 10 Offense also. This is a bad time to be crucifying a guy after a complete beat down against to what was supposedly a Potent Offense.
Maybe Wait until next week. Lol

 

[Jayzee1981]

We also paid this QB to come in and properly prepare and just bury teams.
17.0 average through 9 games on Offense? I understand a little regression.. but 29th in the league after 9 games?? Really? For $50mil?

This Defense and our Running game have kept us in play this season. Maybe not the top#5-8 unit I though we’d be, but it’s just as much our Offenses fault they couldn’t get out of their own way.

That said. Much will be determined Sunday night. This is a very good Offense. I don’t want anymore excuses if we handle them again.
Fire him if you want. But Give the guy credit when he completely shuts down a top 10 Offense also. This is a bad time to be crucifying a guy after a complete beat down against to what was supposedly a Potent Offense.
Maybe Wait until next week. Lol

What pissed me off was he didn’t show up for OTAs. Yeah he’s a vet and he’s Aaron Rodgers blah blah blah. But you basically have nothing but rookies for WRs, an OLine that was banged up, healing and a question mark, and no offensive TEs. As a LEADER who just sunk our team finances with that contract, he should have been out there with those kids building a trust foundation as early as possible and he didn’t. He sat in his mansion drinking scotch naked in front of a mirror counting his money.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He sat in his mansion drinking scotch naked in front of a mirror counting his money.

Asking for a friend....do you have pictures ....you know to prove it and how much are they worth on the black market?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

We also paid this QB to come in and properly prepare and just bury teams.
17.0 average through 9 games on Offense? I understand a little regression.. but 29th in the league after 9 games?? Really? For $50mil?

This Defense and our Running game have kept us in play this season. Maybe not the top#5-8 unit I though we’d be, but it’s just as much our Offenses fault they couldn’t get out of their own way.

That said. Much will be determined Sunday night. Detroit is a very good Offense. I don’t want anymore excuses if we handle them again.
Fire him if you want. But Give the guy credit when he completely shuts down a top 10 Offense also. This is a bad time to be crucifying a guy after a complete beat down against to what was supposedly a Potent Offense.
Maybe Wait until next week. Lol

6 weeks does not outweigh 30+. Yes, he appears to have figured some things out. You confident he’ll quickly adapt to changing offenses that start to exploit his new found defense? Cause I’m certainly not.

The QB’s play has no impact on the play of the defense (unless the QB is turning the ball over constantly). Yes, the offense has been underwhelming, but that doesn’t excuse the defense’s shortcomings.

 

[Jayzee1981]

Asking for a friend....do you have pictures ....you know to prove it and how much are they worth on the black market?

You can’t say black market! Someone will get offended. Haha!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While the defense has played better in the second halves of games and in the fourth quarter especially overall they haven't performed up to potential until the second half of the Dolphins game.

If they can keep that up and Barry is the one responsible for it he should be allowed to keep his job. Otherwise I would still prefer to move on from him after the season.

As a side note, it wasn't surprising the offense struggled for long stretches this season, this was to be expected based on a lack of talent at pass catchers.

What pissed me off was he didn’t show up for OTAs. Yeah he’s a vet and he’s Aaron Rodgers blah blah blah. But you basically have nothing but rookies for WRs, an OLine that was banged up, healing and a question mark, and no offensive TEs. As a LEADER who just sunk our team finances with that contract, he should have been out there with those kids building a trust foundation as early as possible and he didn’t. He sat in his mansion drinking scotch naked in front of a mirror counting his money.

Rodgers showing up for OTAs would have made no difference.

 

[gopkrs]

As a side note, it wasn't surprising the offense struggled for long stretches this season, this was to be expected based on a lack of talent at pass catchers.

And Rodgers' poor play early in the season

 

[swhitset]

Rodgers showing up for OTAs would have made no difference.

Public officials like judges are expected to avoid the appearance of impropriety. I see Rodgers going to OTAs in the same way. You may be right that it wouldn‘t have made a difference, but its not a good look. The team was fielding a bunch of rookie receivers that needed to get comfortable with the offense and with Rodgers. Was he required to go ? No. Would it have shown a higher level of dedication after just accepting that huge contract? Yes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Public officials like judges are expected to avoid the appearance of impropriety. I see Rodgers going to OTAs in the same way. You may be right that it wouldn‘t have made a difference, but its not a good look. The team was fielding a bunch of rookie receivers that needed to get comfortable with the offense and with Rodgers. Was he required to go ? No. Would it have shown a higher level of dedication after just accepting that huge contract? Yes.

Well said. Football is a Team sport. While OTA's are optional, so are a lot of team events, conversations, etc. How you conduct yourself at these events, can go a long way with your teammates. Sure, some guys skip them, thinking they don't need them. However, it isn't always about what that guy might think he needs, might be what his team needs. Given the circumstances at the time, new platoon of WR's, big contract, lots of negative press, Rodgers sure didn't do himself or his teammates any favors by not showing up for them.

 

[Mondio]

This again? LOL

 

[OldSchool101]

Most first and second round snaps in the entire league for a slightly above average defense...that's not a good defense (pun intended) of Barry.

I know. I often wonder what would’ve happened with our 12th ranked Defense had we not been ranked 29th on Offense with 17.0 per game. As an opposing HC/OC it kinda changes your entire game plan.

Do realize how thin the margin is on points allowed? Currently 1.5 points per game would move us up 11 spots into a 7th ranked Scoring Defense. Imo when you don’t play complementary football you stagnate your Defense (and vice versa).
There’s not even a doubt in my mind that had GB started this season more consistently on Offense (call it just league average) we’d have easily been ranked in the top #10 on Defense through 9 games.
Is 17.0 per game over a 9 game stretch Barry’s fault also? I don’t think so.

Listen. Our D hadn’t played to expectation (top 5) I’ll admit that. Yet some of this incessant picking is bordering frivolous. Anyone can see we are playing much better as of late. No opponent in December/Jan has scored more than 20 points on us. 17.0 per contest over Dec-Jan is pretty impressive regardless who’s under Center. You could really argue it’s closer to 14.0 per game because many of our starters left the field mid 4th qtr. I’m still waiting for someone to declare Jefferson had a concussion and that caused a Goal line stand and 4 turnovers. I’ve never seen so many excuses flying over our opponents. Maybe our D just played like they should’ve.

 

[gopkrs]

It is interesting to me that (and I have not read everything) when LaFleur talks about the defense stepping up; he talks about the players. I have not read him saying anything about Barry. I hope they keep Barry on a tight leash. No 3 man rushes, tighter coverage, bumping receivers at the line of scrimmage etc.

 

[OldSchool101]

It is interesting to me that (and I have not read everything) when LaFleur talks about the defense stepping up; he talks about the players. I have not read him saying anything about Barry. I hope they keep Barry on a tight leash. No 3 man rushes, tighter coverage, bumping receivers at the line of scrimmage etc.

Yes. Barry still needs to dig himself out of the relative Dog house. I believe Barry n Co. showing up against a top #6 Offense this weekend would go a long ways towards reestablishing our early season expectations. If we do to Detroit anything close to how we handled MN last week? I’m jumping on the pro Barry train. This game is a formidable litmus test.

I like the current feel of this Defense. We’re seeing signs of being the aggressor on D and that does = players rising to the occasion. That aggressive style play creates opportunities for takeaways. May God continue to allow the ball to bounce our way. We’ve had lots of help and I don’t think it’s coincidence. I’ve been around just long enough to know sometimes things go your way so much you know Gods hand is in it. Crosby’s bounce was hilarious it was just too funny and obvious to me. That Kick defined our season and this team’s current trajectory.

 

[gopkrs]

If we do to Detroit anything close to how we handled MN last week? I’m jumping on the pro Barry train.

Why? How do you know it was Barry's decision to change things up and how to change them up?