Fire Capers

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Munch

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Yes the D needs fixing and it can be fixed. As for the Bears, I watched their game and wasn't too impressed with this Cutler/Marshall combo. Cutler was 2/12 with a pick6 until Freeney left the game early. Forte did the lion share of the work and their D wasn't that tough. The Lions were down right over matched by the Rams. Stafford threw 3or4 picks. Everyone in this division is defeatable. During the Superbowl run we lost some games to worse teams and still pulled it out. Some hard work has to be done. Others SB teams played terrible yesterday and earlier in the week so there is no need to take our Ball and go home just yet.
 

Oshkoshpackfan

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^ I think that marshall had something like 9 catches for 112 yards and 2 TD's. Atleast that is what I thought i saw scrolling across the bottom of the screen on NFL network. That to me sounds like a damn good combo.
 

burt packerack

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ill blame Mcarthy before i will blame Capers that game. Our defensive backs looked frustrated communicating with each other and the line backers couldn't cover at all.
 

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You guys sound like your relying on the offense to compensate for points like last year. The offense did make a couple mistakes, but the defense did lose the game in the end.

This is not a one man team behind Arod, nobody should rely on him to make up differences. Our defense is garbage outside of CM3 and Woodson. This performance in my mind is unacceptable after spending ALL draft picks on defense.


I agree 100%. Sombody mentioned we had four sacks against possibly the best o-line in football. And? those sacks came from Woodson and Matthews..that was exactly my point. Theese others guys need to contribute.
 

P-E-Z

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Still way to many missed tackles, poor tackling technique, blown coverages, players not knowing where/what they're supposed to be doing. This all comes down to Capers. He's got the personnel for a good defense he's just gotta call the right plays and teach these guys the right ways.

I'm not to sure about some of players..... Coaching is part of the problem.
 

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Like I said Cutler was 2/12 with a pick 6 until Freeney left the game. Cutler was sacked on the first play of the game and was under fire constantly. But I only did watch the game.
 

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After a day to clear my thoughts this is what I've come up with.

Since Capers has arrived as our D coordinator we have been having consistent mental lapses. I remember our first and second years, guys were saying well "imagine how good they'll play when they can fully understand this defense" because we were playing well at the time but our players didnt know what they were doing. 2 years later, they still don't.

They get interceptions yes, but that has more to do with players seeing the ball in the air and making a good move on it. Getting interceptions has more to do with players in game decision making and skill rather than much of anything to do with coaching. So basically in summary I'm saying our turnovers which is basically the only thing we've been lauded for over the past few years "has nothing to do with Capers but more about our players"

What Capers does have control over us the defensive scheming and coverages. I wonder if their is a stat on blown coverages and receivers running wide open. Cuz our defense has to be leading the league in that under Capers tenure. The worst part about it, after the play is THEY STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DID WRONG OR WHO TO BLAME. Did you guys happen to see Burnett stare at whoever it was after Moss's td? They still don't even know the defense after this long!!!

Not to say all is bad, because other then last year we always showed consistent pass rush. But how much of that was due to CM3's playmaking skills or Capers play calling? I don't know.

I think we have a lot of talent on defense. I'd take our roster over most other rosters. For example we (in my opinion) have vast talent over CLE on defense. Yet, they finished top 10 last year while we finished bottom 10. That doesn't make sense. The only other variable is.... What do ya know- Defensive Coordinator.
 

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^ I think that marshall had something like 9 catches for 112 yards and 2 TD's. Atleast that is what I thought i saw scrolling across the bottom of the screen on NFL network. That to me sounds like a damn good combo.

Look who they were playing.
 

GreenBlood

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I think we have a lot of talent on defense. I'd take our roster over most other rosters. For example we (in my opinion) have vast talent over CLE on defense. Yet, they finished top 10 last year while we finished bottom 10. That doesn't make sense. The only other variable is.... What do ya know- Defensive Coordinator.

Way oversimplified. That's not the only other variable. We also had huge leads going into the 4th quarter most of the time last year. That has an effect on how you run your defense. You don't want the other team stopping the clock. On offense, you do that by running the ball. On defense, you do that by overplaying your coverage toward the sidelines to prevent guys from getting out of bounds. The result is a lot of meaningless yards up the middle. That's why New Orleans and New England also gave up a ton of yards last year. If you look at our yards allowed by quarter, you'll find that we ranked from about 15th to 9th in over the first 3 quarters (I believe the 2nd quarter was our best IIRC). In the 4th quarter, we were dead last. That's not a coincidence.
 

13 Times Champs

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It is realitively simple. If the defense performs all season like yesterday then the situation will take care of itself.
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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So you're already assuming the Bears are going to win Thursday? BTW, the Bears game is NOT a "must win." If it was week 16 and we're trying to get a wildcard spot, THEN it would be "must win." Not sure why you're being so pessimistic.

I would love to see where in my post you can infer that I'm chalking the Bears game up as a loss. Please feel free to quote that section of my post.

I'm just concerned that the last two games the Packers have played have been losses at home by more than a touchdown. I'm not being pessimistic. I just haven't seen the Packers play a complete game for quite some time.
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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Look who they were playing.

I live in Chicago. You would think the Bears just won the Super Bowl. I had no idea beating the worst team in the NFL from last year with a rookie QB starting his first game ever was a big deal. There's already talk on the radio of the Bears going 16-0.
 

HyponGrey

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Any chance we switch back to the 4-3?
Depends on our ILB coach, Moss. If Capers goes, he's next in line.
We have better personel for it this year and it appears that the Packers and Patriots (both 3-4's) are falling behind teams on defense like the 49ers (4-3's)
Really? the 49ers run a 4-3? Their D-coordinater might as well be Capers 2.0, they run a 3-4. Just like the Steelers, Just like the Texans. The Patriots, Saints, and Ravens all switch back and forth. 3-4 is better IMO, but the personnel are harder to find. Physical corners, massive linemen (NT), LB/DE hybrids...
 
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Geez, that was a poor performance, and in a forum I posted recently I questioned how poor the defence was....BUT lets be fair here, the whole team, both defence AND offence failed to perform in this one, so to call for Capers head is a little hard just yet IMHO.
 

c33j44y

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I get the impression that you don't understand just how good SF is this year. A lot of people have them winning the Super Bowl. This game could have gone either way and today it went theirs. There is absolutely NO SHAME in losing to them.
This game reminded me of last season's opener in New Orleans when we beat the Saints by the skin of our teeth. I remember thinking how eerie the similarities were between this game and last year's.

Pack marches into the Superdome, we get a crucial stop at the goal line and win by 8. Niners march into Lambeau, they stop A-Rodg and our potent offense on 4th down and that's all she wrote. Same old song and dance when two elite teams play each other, you never know what's going to happen until that 2 minute drill in the 4th quarter.
 

longtimefan

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This game reminded me of last season's opener in New Orleans when we beat the Saints by the skin of our teeth. I remember thinking how eerie the similarities were between this game and last year's.

Pack marches into the Superdome, we get a crucial stop at the goal line and win by 8. Niners march into Lambeau, they stop A-Rodg and our potent offense on 4th down and that's all she wrote. Same old song and dance when two elite teams play each other, you never know what's going to happen until that 2 minute drill in the 4th quarter.

NO game was in GB
 
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Okay, please bear with me here as I didn`t grow up with American Football but....given that these guys have played the game, and probably in most cases, the same positions through highschool and college, I`m assuming that they would have been coached to specialise at the position they play at....and here is the question...why does being a rookie make such a difference ??? I get that its stepping up a level playing in the NFL, but its not as if for example they put a uniform on ME and said go and play Guard or Tackle, These guys know these positions naturally surely ??
I understand this is a simplified view of it, but I find it strange that the fact that we are playing rookies should make such a difference ?
Another question here, and it is a seriously interested one, not meant to be antagonistic, but what is the big difference between the 4-3 defense and the 3-4 ???
 

HyponGrey

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Okay, please bear with me here as I didn`t grow up with American Football but....given that these guys have played the game, and probably in most cases, the same positions through highschool and college, I`m assuming that they would have been coached to specialise at the position they play at....and here is the question...why does being a rookie make such a difference ??? I get that its stepping up a level playing in the NFL, but its not as if for example they put a uniform on ME and said go and play Guard or Tackle, These guys know these positions naturally surely ??
I understand this is a simplified view of it, but I find it strange that the fact that we are playing rookies should make such a difference ?
Another question here, and it is a seriously interested one, not meant to be antagonistic, but what is the big difference between the 4-3 defense and the 3-4 ???
Actually you'd be surprised, a college coach will sometimes ask a player to switch to a position of need of depth or one that he feels might be more suited to that player. for instance, Sam Shields was originally a Wide Reciever until his last year of college. Nick Perry played Defensive end all through college and is now asked to convert to Linebacker. There is actually a huge difference between the levels of play, especially depending on what college conference they played in and who coached them. You have a bunch of guys who were big fish in a small pond all of a sudden being the small fish compared to guys who have been at the top for ten plus years. It's a bit overwhelming. Even when bringing a man off the bench who has been practicing, for say a year, but never actually played, there is usually an adjustment period. It is a game where you have to learn by doing, and sometimes while learning you don't do too well.

Its a difference in philosophy. 4-3 uses 4 Defensive Linemen, 2 Defensive Tackles, and 2 Defensive Ends, and 3 Linebackers. The four Defensive Linemen are asked to exclusively rush the passer. They specialize in rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt. The Linebackers are asked to drop into coverage and watch the gaps formed when the Offensive Linemen block the Defensive Linemen. In a 3-4 , One of the Linebackers are removed, the Defensive Ends are asked to stand up and play in space as Linebackers, the Defensive Tackles play Defensive End, and a larger "Nose Tackle" is inserted into the middle of the line. The Defensive Linemen are then asked to not only rush the passer, but to also watch the gaps. While the converted Defensive Ends, now called "Rush Linebackers" are asked to not only rush the passer, but to also drop into coverage. This is a very superficial explanation, and Ivo or Jack will hopefully expound, but it gets the main idea across.
 

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4-3 Defense
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3-4 Defense
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Croak

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Actually you'd be surprised, a college coach will sometimes ask a player to switch to a position of need of depth or one that he feels might be more suited to that player. for instance, Sam Shields was originally a Wide Reciever until his last year of college. Nick Perry played Defensive end all through college and is now asked to convert to Linebacker. There is actually a huge difference between the levels of play, especially depending on what college conference they played in and who coached them. You have a bunch of guys who were big fish in a small pond all of a sudden being the small fish compared to guys who have been at the top for ten plus years. It's a bit overwhelming. Even when bringing a man off the bench who has been practicing, for say a year, but never actually played, there is usually an adjustment period. It is a game where you have to learn by doing, and sometimes while learning you don't do too well.

Its a difference in philosophy. 4-3 uses 4 Defensive Linemen, 2 Defensive Tackles, and 2 Defensive Ends, and 3 Linebackers. The four Defensive Linemen are asked to exclusively rush the passer. They specialize in rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt. The Linebackers are asked to drop into coverage and watch the gaps formed when the Offensive Linemen block the Defensive Linemen. In a 3-4 , One of the Linebackers are removed, the Defensive Ends are asked to stand up and play in space as Linebackers, the Defensive Tackles play Defensive End, and a larger "Nose Tackle" is inserted into the middle of the line. The Defensive Linemen are then asked to not only rush the passer, but to also watch the gaps. While the converted Defensive Ends, now called "Rush Linebackers" are asked to not only rush the passer, but to also drop into coverage. This is a very superficial explanation, and Ivo or Jack will hopefully expound, but it gets the main idea across.

Actually you did a pretty good job describing it. Another thing to remember for those who didn't grow up with American football is that it isn't like footy overseas. When the kids are young, even in High School, they play various positions without specializing. There isn't a real organized youth developmental league in the U.S. like there is for world football in say, Germany.
 

realcaliforniacheese

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This is a young D. Give it some time for the new guys to get used to the speed of the game and hone their skills. We haven't been picking low in the draft for some time now so we haven't stocked up on the A talent. This Thread reminds me of the Fire TT and MM threads back in 08.
 
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Thanks Guys really helpful info. Sorry for being a *******.
 
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