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Fire Capers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by azrsx05, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO McCarthy foolishly overreacted to the question about Capers' job. But also IMO name calling is not only childish, it's most often used by those who can't formulate or articulate a logical argument. And it always says more about the name-caller than the object of the name calling.

    Doesn’t it also mean Thompson’s personnel department has been drained of a lot of talent? And contrast this statement to all the complaining (many times justified) done on this board about players like Neal, Wilson, Hawk, Walden, Williams, etc.
     
  2. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I think another reason is that he caught Offensive Coordinators by surprise with his gimmicks in 2010. After an offseason of looking at what he did they caught up. A similar thing will happen with the read option offense used this season. Defensive Coordinators will have some wrinkles for it next year.
     
  3. nwick

    nwick Cheesehead

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    Lovie Smith would make an excellent defensive coordinator for the Packers. Wouldn't that be a kick!
     
  4. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    The players will take it to the next level under Ray Horton. He is a Steeler guy that runs the 3-4 so he has to share some basics with the current defense but has some new twists to it. I think some new blood will do wonders for some of these guys. The players don't respond to capers and capers doesn't respond to offenses once they adjust to him.
     
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  5. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    We would see a lot more punching at the ball to force fumbles. Bears seemed master that like no other team.
     
  6. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

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    Please TT dump Capers and pick up Horton today.
     
  7. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

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    Well nevermind. Looks like Browns have picked him up
     
  8. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I figure Capers to be on staff through the ProBowl at least. If he's canned, it'll be SB week.
     
  9. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    That was a huge blown opportunity with Horton available. This "us against the world" crap MM guiding the team by needs to stop. You have that attitude when another team disrespects you or you are a huge underdog, you can't run the entire team by it all year long. He seems to be dug in the trenches with his staff so far that there is no thought of changing anything. Its like that idea doesn't exist. They are solely focused on what those guys in the trenches with him need to do to get better to prove to the world that they can win another championship.

    You can change the formula Mike. Other teams change their formulas. It is a game of constant adjustment not a game of lets do the same thing regardless of the outcome because we did it once this way and we will do it again. Its like a Super Bowl hangover that will never go away.
     
  10. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Capers isn't going anywhere. For better or worse he'll be in Green Bay next year.
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And what do we do with all the players that fit in a 3-4?

    How many do we keep, dump how many do we draft
    \
     
  12. Cheesehead J

    Cheesehead J Cheesehead

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    Capers will be in GB this season. I was on the fire capers wagon after that saddening lost but have since changed my mind. Really either way I would not be mad. fire or keep. I do wish that he could bring some more fire to the D. I wish he would get his a** on the sideline that may help instead of drinking Miller Lites in the skybox enjoying the game. I wish that he would come up with some crazy new schemes that are modern and fresh. I know he can. I used to like watching the D more in 09-10 then the O because you just never knew and thats gone now. My blame goes to some of the players. I wont go into details but ones that were not starters. Get healthy. Add talent with the draft at a couple key positions. Capers stop being stubborn and try some new things Id say 5-8th ranked D this season and thats not to bad.
     
  13. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I don't understand this critique. Lots of coordinators stay in the booth, where they can be cold and analytical AND have a better view of the field.

    What possible benefit is there to having him down on the sidelines instead of in the booth?
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Cuz Dom isnt doing it, so it has to be wrong
     
  15. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    To see, feel, hear the speed of the game, the physicality that the other side has and his defense doesn't have?
    Could it hurt?
    Somethings have to change... who knows exactly what. Better players?
    Staying healthy?
    Newer scheme?
    Bigger players?
    Meaner players?
    Does the defense take it's tone from their head man?

    How soft are these guys? http://packersinsider.com/?p=5249
     
  16. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I think that Bob McGinn's latest article says everything I wanted to say only better.

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-too-soft-to-join-nfls-elite-2b8e22l-187611511.html

    Let's assume that the lack of physicality and discipline is not wholly Capers' fault. I don't think any of us would go so far as to say it is. The question is, if the Packer defense must improve and become more physical, is Capers the man for the job? Will he be able to mould this defense into something it is not as of right now? Is a matter of getting better players? Of coaching style? Injuries?

    BoB McGinn wrote something to me that was very telling, which suggests that there is a coaching philosophy which does not start with Capers (it starts with MM), but which Capers is part of:

    "Thompson and his first lieutenant, Russ Ball, were wrong on Scott Wells, the team's best offensive lineman in 2010-'11 and hub of their ground game. When Wells refused to provide a hometown discount and wouldn't budge, the Packers kissed him goodbye.
    So McCarthy entered the picture. He studied the 10 centers with starting experience that were available, then told Thompson that his top priority would be someone able to handle the mental load of his fast-paced, no-huddle attack.
    Just about every other name on the board had more power and size than Jeff Saturday. The Packers still went with the 37-year-old ex-Colt.
    The problem was, Saturday couldn't block anybody in the run game. In the four defeats before McCarthy finally recognized his hand-picked man was done, the O-line was mediocre to lousy.
    Already saddled with a soft left tackle in Marshall Newhouse, the Packers became even more of a finesse offense with Saturday. Assuming Wells had been re-signed and stayed healthy in Green Bay, the Packers might well have secured No. 1 or No. 2 seeding."

    Now I'm not necessarily agreeing that they should have re-signed Wells, but to me, MM's decision to hire Saturday for his "finesse" above all the other centers says a lot. And McGinn is using it to drive a point home. Again:

    "In late April, Thompson was looking for a big man to reinforce a sagging run defense and interior pass rush. Finally, he traded up, but it was too late because the defensive end that he wanted, Connecticut's Kendall Reyes (6 feet 4 inches, 300 pounds), had gone No. 49 to San Diego.
    His selection, Jerel Worthy (6-2½, 305), had shown pass-rushing quickness at Michigan State but some scouts said he was too short to play in the 3-4 defense and didn't have a block-eater's mentality.
    The Packers took Worthy No. 51 over Devon Still (6-5, 301), a point-of-attack force for Penn State who went No. 53 to Cincinnati, where he seemed slightly miscast in a 4-3.
    Worthy showed little in training camp, decided to drop a load of bad weight and kept getting pushed back against the run. In other words, he was soft, too. By the way, Reyes had an impressive first season."
    Part of this is misfortune. They wanted Reyes, he was gone so they went for Worthy. I don't know if Devon Still has been any better. One of the raps against him was lack of a motor.
    What it comes down to for me is this question: what will it take to turn this defense around? To do that, you often need a change in attitude, a change toward practices, et.al. That means a different coach. Maybe Dom Capers is a defensive genius, although he certainly got completely out-coached against SF, but can he instill a different attitude in this defense or not? I have my doubts and I am not impressed by MM's defense of his coaches. It smacks to me of loyalty above all else, which is certainly a virtue, but it does not win you SBs.


    The last word goes to McGinn:
    "Is it helpful that the players work in the lap of luxury? Team executives are proud to say football gets everything it wants, but at some point having the best amenities and finest food can be counterproductive in a quasi-militaristic culture.

    Is it necessary for McCarthy to give older veterans a practice off just a week or so into training camp? Maybe he could put the hammer down just a little bit more.
    And the crowds at Lambeau Field have started to remind me of those staid assemblages at the University of Michigan. It's the place to be seen and all that, but it has been a long time since a visiting coach or player went on and on about how it difficult it was to hear and play in Green Bay.
    Nowhere is it written that the Packers shall contend for if not win the Super Bowl every year, but some fans sure seem to think it is.
    If Bill Belichick and his Patriots had played Green Bay this season, would the Packers have been physical enough to earn his respect?
    The answer is a flat no."
     
  17. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Yeah good stuff from McGinn.
    He's not saying anyone is a bad coach, but he is right saying the defense is soft, the OL is soft.

    Now remember, our biggest pressure on defense last year as well as the 09 playoffs was that our pass rush was horrible, aside from what Matthews gave us.
    So TT & MM took steps to fix that, with Perry & Worthy in the 1st & 2nd. I have no problem with those picks & any criticism of either on account of "softness" is hindsight being 20/20.
    Now if you knew both would get injured, be "injury-prone", than you're fine.
    I am no Badger fan, but I recall moments where Worthy took over the game against Russell Wilson & the Badgers.

    I still think he possesses almost Warren Sapp or John Randle ability. His head is the one I question more than Nick Perry.

    Anyway, I wonder about the persona of Capers too.
    They say a team is often a reflection of it's coach/coaches.

    Ours seems to be.

    I am one of the older fans in here, but some of our older fans say the yelling, rah-rah, firey coaches don't get their teams to play anymore fired up than the quiet coaches. That's true, but not always.

    And, wouldn't a Ray Lewis or Brian Dawkins type of passionate leader PLAYER be more important?
    I like Hawk, but he's silent out there. We all used to be irritated by Nick Barnett's antics, but at least he played with emotion out there. What I am talking about is when you see, always, guys swarming once the first guy slows up the ball-carrier. Big hits. Big hits that force fumbles. Do you know how many hits on RBs we had this year that forced a fumble? One. In 17 games. That's not acceptable.
    We couldn't force a fumble on Kaepernick in 181 yards because we couldn't catch him.
    We hit Peterson plenty of times in over 500 yards, and never popped a ball loose once, except the time when he was already down.

    Has any blitzer other than Matthews (and Woodson 3 years ago) popped a ball loose?

    These are the things we need to change.
    It will take some new players. But maybe DC too?
     
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  18. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    This is something I've been saying for years. They are soft as the Pillsbury Dough Boy. They have been resting on their laurels ever since the Super Bowl win. Thanks for posting that Frank.
     
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    My pleasure.
    I hope the public pressure will result in a change. This is something that, IMO, can be changed quickly. That's all we want.
    If they can add some pieces around Matthews, Perry, Bishop who are mean, aggressive, maybe "intimidating", that would help tremendously. They're not far away.

    I think the DB's are the real soft spot though..... contrast them to Seattle, San Fran, even Atlanta's DBs.... watch them today, they'll throw some big hits on the 9ers....I hope, which we didn't do.
     
  20. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    The Falcons and the 24th ranked NFL defense are completely shutting down Kaepernick and the 49ers offense. They actually look like they know what they are up against, have a plan, and know how to execute it.

    Amazing...judging from our comments last weekend, I would have thought that was impossible to do against this team.
     
  21. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Not of late. ;)
     
  22. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    Did not shut them down, but did a far more respectable job on defense than we did. Matty Ice, who reminded me of another down south QB, threw the game away with turnovers. The clutching of the injured shoulder produced flashbacks of another guy that would wince in pain for all to see right after he threw away a game.
     
  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I think Ryan got his collar bone cracked.... have seen hits like that before and that's what the result is.
    The Falcons forced the Niners to 3 & Out on their first 2 drives of the game, and got a nice 17-0 lead.

    But then the Niners slowly carved them up, and not with Kaepernick running, but Gore mostly.
    And Vernon Davis killed them.
    They have tons of weapons and you have to pick your poison against these guys. They're legit, and their OL is both huge and good, and they are fantastic at getting away with holding too. But when refs call that tight like at Minny, StL, and vs NYG, they're troubled on offense.
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    2 tds by gore were done by the read option..Kap didnt keep it but gave to gore..

    The DE for Atl was fooled just like Walden and Clay were..

    1st time he was fooled, you figured their coach would tell them how to scheme it..But no matter what his coach said, he got fooled a second time.

    So they didnt stop the issue of being fooled like us)

    Niners are GOOD
     
  25. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Ravens vs 49ers....

    Do you know, both teams defenses pitched 2nd half shutouts today?
    At New England and at Altanta.
    At 2 "great" offenses.

    Emotional defenses.
    Physical.
    Hard hitting.
    Good tackling.
    Intimidating.
    Bone-jarring.

    Capers should go down on the field for the Super Bowl and bring his DL, LB, and DBs especially.
     
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