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Favre's status

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zombieslayer, May 29, 2007.

  1. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I never heard about that one!
    heck....isn't he still coaching? Didn't he get his leg broke last year when he got hit by a player? Hmmmm.........him and Dan Devine had ONE thing in common at least!
     
  2. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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  3. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I think that article is pretty lame. The QB rating obviously doesn't always correctly display ability. I mean, who in their right mind actually believes that GROSSman is a better QB then Favre????


    The statistics that article used seem completely one-sided. I say, GO FAVRE and PLEASE embarrass GROSSman!!
     
  4. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    How is it completely one sided? It just uses states and facts.

    BTW Grossman did get his team to the Super Bowl.

    The #'s don't lie, Favre's game has taken a huge nose dive from the MVP years.

    What statistics would you like them to use?

    Cold Hard Football Facts is an excellent site IMO
     
  5. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    YAWN, so why post it on a packer forum ?
    nothing better to do :rotflmao:
     
  6. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    who were the starting WR for Brett during the second half of the season the last three season. it is the player personell that has affected brett's stats
    :rotflmao: and he is the one that cost the Bears the game, and the Bears defence had nothing to do with the Bears getting to the Super Bowl
     
  7. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    When you isolate those years like they did here you are talking about numbers not many could continue to accomplish for one thing and secondly, look at the teams he was working with as well.

    If he were able to continue at the pace he set in the mid-ninties he would have been the first player elected to the HOF before he even retired.

    You don't even have to site numbers to know Brett does not have good stats when playing from behind. This is exactly why I am a big fan of putting the best defense possible out on the field.

    Brett's been around football long enough to know that with no defense he HAS to make something happen and score points. On the otherhand he also knows with a good defense in close games it's critical not to make mistakes.

    With that I look for a better year from him numbers wise. I am not sold he CANNOT do it any longer as much as the situation dictates how he performs.

    That's not to say he won't have a clunker half now and then because he does. Usually though, when that happens, his next half is much better.

    Yes, we do have to live with the fact that Brett will most likely play like a human where as in the past we were spoiled when a super human effort was common place.
     
  8. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Although I found the article pretty snarky and cynical, it did make some valid points. Just because a Packer fan thinks Favre's usefulness has passed (not me), and makes that opinion known on a PACKER forum, (not a Favre forum) qualifies them as niether "lonely" nor a "troll".

    This is a thread debating Favre's ability/usefulness/ etc. , so why NOT post the article here? The whole argument of who Brett had to throw to shouldn't matter. Tom Brady last year. Who did he have again?

    Offensive line issues, yes, definitely, without a doubt, Brett got screwed protection-wise in '05. I think that his stats should be thrown out from that season when discussing his effectiveness. But last season, he was pretty well-protected. And DD made Pro Bowl, and GJ was an All-Rookie.

    I'm just sayin'.

    Edit: my previous post made it look like I was saying I'm not a Packer fan. But I am. :thumbsup:
     
  9. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    :thumbsup: So......Are you saying the Packers finished 8-8 and didn't make the playoffs b/c of Brett is losing his skills?

    GJ was hurt & he looked lost most of last season, i'm not saying GJ can't improve, but he was hurt, and at times during the secold half of the season, he looked lost on the feild. and when #4 is throwing to 5th and 6th string WRers in DEC. it effected his stats over the last three years.

    I'm just saying, if Javon Walker was on the Packers last year, with the stats Javon put up, do you think the Packers would have made the Playoffs.
    The Packers finished 8-8, would Javon made the difference in 1 game to make the Packers record 9-7 or maybe two games to make the packers 10-6 and Playoff bound. I say yes it would have made a difference, and what would we be talking about now?
    not #4's effectivness :rotflmao:
     
  10. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    just in case you forgot dh.

    javon walker is a bronco now.

    get over it. he aint comin back.
     
  11. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I'm not saying the site is a bad site. However, you can pick certain stats to prove almost any point you want. How many packers games did you watch the last two seasons? It's pretty obvious that Favre hasn't had much help at all and has pretty much had to force things to even have a chance at winning. Of course Driver is good, but when you only have one really good receiver, you're often going to be up the creek without a paddle. You can say what you want about the O-Line last season, but he still had very limited time to do anything, and with extra people in to block, less people to force the ball to . . . in addition to a subpar running game. Add all of those things up and it will take its toll on the "Cold-Hard Football Facts." There are a lot of other issue's that affect Favre's performance. Football is a team sport.


    So, you really think that GROSSman got the bears to the super bowl? You keep thinking that . . .


    Bottom line, of course Favre isn't his old-self. Is that some kind of revelation for many? Apparently so. However, watching Favre play, it's very obvious that he is still a great quarterback and still have MVP ability. I won't deny that he does need a few more dependable weapons to do so now though . .
     
  12. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Favre is getting worse, but so is his surrounding cast. It's not up to the QB to win games. So that stat is a team stat.

    If we dropped Brett now, in with the 96 or 97 packers, They'd still win as many games.

    Brett is getting worse, but worse than great is still better than 20 other QBs in the league.
     
  13. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    You obviously aren't weren't discussing anything with. I don't bother with Favre sycophants.
     
  14. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    Geez, I thought for sure Grossman was the starting QB for the NFC in the Super Bowl. I never said anything about him not being helped greatly by his surrounding team.

    As far as Brett still having MVP ability, you really can't be serious. His in the bottom 3rd of the starting QB's, and most that can look at him objectively can see that. But I realize that's rarely found at Packer forums. When a QB leads the league in poor passing %, he's certainly no longer has MVP ability.
     
  15. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Ok.....so Favre's stats last year are pretty close to Grossman's stats, right? So why did the Bears make it to the SB? They had a killer D, thats why. Why didn't they win it? Cause their QB sucks. Had it been Favre leading them (it hurts just to think that) i think they would have done much better, maybe even won it. Grossman is not a good leader right now. Maybe he will be someday, but right now he's not.
    I think this year will be a true test of whether Favre is lousy or still a decent QB.
    You can choose to push him out the door. I myself am still happy he will be here one more season.
    Just be patient.......you won't have to "suffer" with him being our QB for much longer.
     
  16. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    That's exactly correct Favre's stats were very similar to Grossman's, and I believe Grossman is a bottom 3rd QB also. Obviously the Bears defense and special teams carried them to the Super Bowl.
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Yes, they did Tileman. So if the Packer D is decent this year, and a few people on the O produce, why can't Favre lead us to the SB?
    Favre is a proven winner, and if he has the weapons he has proved that he knows how to win.
    If you take the best QB and put him with a lousy team, he's probably not going to do real well. I think Favre did the best anyone could with what he had last year. They were one game from making the playoffs. And I think they would have done alot better then the Giants did.
     
  18. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Listen, Javon is gone, fine, the thread and the post I reponded to revolve around Brett Favre, and Favre's status as a player. Most people who argue Brett is on a decline, they base this theory on his stats over the last three years.

    and I say its not Brett Favre's decline in talent that has caused this downward spiral in stats, its the lack of playmakers on the offence.

    and to prove this, I simply asked to add Walkers stats from 2006 to last years team, instead of GJ's stats

    Would people be talking about #4's decline?
    and would the Packers have made the playoffs in 2006?
     
  19. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    I don't think Favre did the best anyone could do with the team he had, not even close. I think there are at least 18 other starting QB's that could have done as well and most would have done far better.

    You obviously believe Favre played with a bunch of stumblebums last year, I just don't happen to see it that way. I believe the Favre had far better tools to work with then most want to admit, because it's far easier to rationalize his poor play by placing the blame on his surrounding cast.
     
  20. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Tell me where these mighty playmakers were.. minus Driver and maybe Green? The line couldn't protect on there own so the TE and FB were held in... thus the middle of the field was a dead zone for the Pack.. pretty easy to play defense when you play a below average running team that has to play on the edges of the field...

    Don't care whom QB's the team... they aren't going to put up big numbers, period.

    Favre's nature leads him to plays he shouldn't have gotten done and leads to plays that look the part of "bone-headed". But that has been his nature all along... simply the goods outweight the bads.
     
  21. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Tileman must really despise Favre or something. I agree.......and really, Driver was the ONLY playmaker Favre had. Green sure wasn't great last year. And you are right Pack93z, the guys that usually would go out for Favre to throw to had to stay in to protect him. He had no TE to throw to, and only Driver as a WR. I think Jennings WOULD have been big had he not been hurt most of the season.
    Now I think the O line is improved, and the WR situation will be better (barring injuries) and HOPEFULLY someone will finally step up and be a TE for him to throw too. And if our D improves alot, i think we can contend with the NFC quite well.
    But heck, lets just throw ol' Brett under the bus and blame him for everything that was bad last year, right? Lets not look at the overall picture and see that he had very few targets to throw too.
     
  22. vikesrule

    vikesrule Cheesehead

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    Tileman's my new hero.
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Yup....i'm sure thats true, as ALL Vikings and Bears fans want Favre gone too!
     
  24. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    I think the DB's really want him to stay
     
  25. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    It's a free country...........you can choose to hate Favre if you want to. I don't really care.
    Fact is, he is here and is going to play this season. Tough break for you, good news for Packer fans.
    Of course only the playing of this coming season will prove which of us is right.
    I hope for all Packer fans that it is me.
    If he DOES do well this season, will you be willing to come back and admit you were wrong about him?
    If he's lousy, i will admit you were right.
     

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