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Favre vs Rodgers debate here only/Anything Favre Here only

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by wizard 87, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  2. hybriddragonfly

    hybriddragonfly Cheesehead

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    think it is prettymuch settled

    brett in pro bowl

    aaron led his team to a dismal record


    it isnt stats its leadership and aaron doesnt have it
     
  3. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    No, it is a popularity contest and with Brett leading the NFL in interceptions makes it a real laugh. Sorry Brett, you are not an all star this season...
     
  4. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    That's how Chris Havel and Johnny Gray saw it also; Favre's numbers aren't very good at all this year, Pennington has an identical record and better stats yet Favre makes the pro bowl?

    TOTAL popularity contest....
     
  5. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    I always thought this was an interesting article and think it's worth debating...

    Cheesehead reality bites
    Cold, Hard Football Facts for August 5, 2008

    Cheeseheads (After the trade I'm substituting for Favre Lovers) are like the kid you run into 10 years after high school, only to discover that he still wears his varsity wrestling jacket, still works at the Pump ‘n Save and still wants to talk only about the “glory days” of a decade ago.

    They’re both stuck in 1996 and have never moved past it.

    The truth is that Brett Favre, who returns to the Packers this week five months after "retiring," has never been the same quarterback he was in his “glory days” of 1995-97. Back then, he became the first player in history to win three straight NFL MVP awards. (Though, interestingly, he's never once led the league in passer rating.)

    But the track record since then is not so hot. In fact, like the kid still working at the Pump 'n Save, life has kicked the Favre Lovers in the gonads a few times. So instead of dealing with the painful memories, your old buddy still clings to his wrestling jacket and the days when he ruled the school, just like Favre fans cling to the No. 4 jerseys and the single lonely Super Bowl championship he brought to "title" town more than a decade ago.

    So here's a little dose of reality for all those Favre Lovers who stood on the tarmac at Austin Straubel International Sunday night, waiting in vain for Favre's plane to arrive from 1996.

    Jan. 20, 2002
    The reality: The Packers have a shot to reach the conference championship game for first time since the 1997 season if they beat Rams in the divisional round.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: The 12-4 Packers were no match for the 14-2 Rams

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: The Rams edged out the 11-5 Eagles by just five points in the conference title game and lost to the 11-5 Patriots in the Super Bowl. The Packers easily could have beat the Rams if Favre had not thrown 6 picks – tying the single-game NFL record for postseason picks last matched by a passer back in 1955.

    Jan. 4, 2003
    The reality: The 12-4 Packers were again one of the best teams in football, playing at home against the tepid 9-6-1 Falcons.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: Favre walks on water.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Favre sinks like a lead weight, reserving one of his worst performances of the year (20 of 42, 47.6%, 247 yards, 5.9 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 54.4 rating) for when it matters most in a 27-7 loss. It was Green Bay's lowest offensive output of the season and the franchise’s first-ever home playoff loss.

    Jan. 11, 2004
    The reality: The Packers need to produce just one drive in overtime to beat the Eagles and then battle the Panthers for a chance to go to Super Bowl XXXVIII.

    The Favre Lover fantasy
    : The Green Bay Favrers defense let Brett down when they surrendered a miracle 4th and 26 completion by Donovan McNabb in the fourth quarter, allowing the Eagles to tie the game.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: On Green Bay's first play of overtime, Favre promptly tossed a bad pass into the hands of Eagles defender Brian Dawkins. McNabb quickly drove the offense into easy field goal range for the victory. The Favrers defense disappointed Brett by sacking McNabb a mere 8 times, while the Favrers ground game failed to hold up its end of the bargain with just 210 yards and a measly average of 5.7 YPA. Favre passed for 180 yards, one of his lowest outputs of the year.

    Jan. 9, 2005
    The reality: The 10-6 Packers draw a gimme, landing the 8-8 Vikings at home in the wildcard round.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: Favre heals lepers.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Favre turns out a gruesomely disfiguring playoff performance (22 of 33, 66.7%, 216 yards, 6.5 YPA, 1 TD, 4 INT, 55.4 rating), as Packers suffer a humiliating 31-17 loss to one of the worst teams ever to reach the playoffs. Had the Seahawks not lost to the Rams just one day earlier, Favre would have been the first quarterback in history to lose a playoff game to a .500 team.

    The 2005 season
    The reality: The Packers suffer their first losing season in the Favre Era.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: The Packers went 4-12 because Favre had no talent around him.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Eight times in the 2005 season, Favre took the field in the fourth quarter with his team in position to tie or take the lead and a chance for him to play the role of hero. In all eight games, he threw crushing interceptions that killed any hopes for victory. Favre’s 29 picks that year are the most thrown by any quarterback in the past 20 years.

    The 2006 season
    The reality: Packers climb back to respectability with an 8-8 record.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: Favre helped the blind to see.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Favre had trouble focusing on the field, with a 72.7 passer rating that was among the worst in football that season. The list of quarterbacks with a better rating in 2006 included some of the most widely ridiculed passers in football: David Carr (82.1), Michael Vick (75.7), Alex Smith (74.8) and Rex Grossman (73.9)

    Jan. 20, 2008
    The reality: Packers were favored at home on one of the coldest nights in Lambeau Field history.

    The Favre Lover fantasy: The Packers ran into a buzzsaw and lost to the eventual Super Bowl champs.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Favre, and the Packers offense, suffered one of the most colossal collapses in history. In the fourth quarter and overtime, Favre completed 4 of 10 passes for 32 yards with 2 INTs. Green Bay’s final four drives, with a Super Bowl appearance easily within their grasp, went for 0, 7, 0 and 2 yards. Favre’s final pick, on the second play of overtime, led directly to the Giants’ game-winning field goal.

    No wonder Favre Lovers continue to cling to 1996 as if it were yesterday: the memories since then are too painful to bear.
     
  6. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Favre being named to the AFC Pro Bowl roster is an absolute joke
     
  7. joeyharrington

    joeyharrington Cheesehead

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    i cryed all night when a-rod and the packs got smoke by steve smith and the panthers. only then i knew that the season is over so i burned my a-rod jersey. :(
     
  8. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    Jan. 4, 1999

    The reality: The Packers are in the playoffs for the 6th consecutive season

    The Favre Hater Smokescreen: #4's team fails to advance beyond the 1st round for the 1st time in #4's career

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts: #4 threw the game-winning TD to Antonio Freeman with less than 2 minutes remaining. The subsequent 49er possession ended with a Jerry Rice fumble.

    The Hand of Fate Factor: An inadvertant official's whistle ruins any hope of a possible 4th straight Conference Championship game & possible 3rd straight Super Bowl appearance.



    Sidenote - #4 '01 season stats 32TDs, 15 INTs, 3,921 yards, 61.6% 94.1 rating.

    It's easy to dissect & whittle down the stats to serve whatever agenda you wish. It was partly because of the season-long efforts of #4 that GB was playing in the that game in January.

    It's also easy to build up a legacy or tear one down. It all depends upon what kind of fan you really are. :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
  9. Rodgersfan1985

    Rodgersfan1985 Cheesehead

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    All these stats come from a long time ago.......... lets goto my more recent packer fan memory with good ol brett...... OH YEAH HE WRECKED THE CHANCES OF US GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL LAST YEAR!!!!!! And for all the jets fans out there he'll give ya some big plays here and there, suck ya into his bandwagon, and then BOOM yer season will be over because of some duck he threw in the air late in the game. haha
     
  10. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    Most All-Star voting is a popularity contest. What #4 adds to the mix is the consecutive games played streak, & playing at a high level throughout. Fans appreciate that. What's also to be understood is fan votes account for only 1/3 of the selection process. That means the majority of players & coaches also felt #4 was worthy.

    The QB position is unlike any other on the football field. Under no other circumstances does any other player in the sport stand in one spot, completely vulnerable & absorb abuse with as much frequency as the modern QB.

    Show some respect, if for no other reason, for the dedication. He played every game. The outstanding performances were gravy. :yes:
     
  11. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    I am sorry, but I don't believe Favre was alone in wrecking the chances of going to the Super Bowl. It takes more than one person.
     
  12. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpat ... index.html

    FOX's Howie Long is always great. Here are some of his takes from today's interview with Dan:

    -- Long said Brett Favre is not a Pro Bowl player. "He's one of our Mt. Rushmore players," Long said.

    -- Dan asked Long the poll question -- who is the most valuable QB in the AFC East. Long chose Patriots QB Matt Cassel.

    -- Long said he went to all eight Pro Bowls he was chosen for. But he had to go to the local mall and sign autographs just to break even on trips to Hawaii.


    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,129633

    Rivers was robbed at the expense of an undeserving Brett Favre


    "Meanwhile, Brett Favre is on the roster, with his sub-Cassel QB rating of 86.5 and his league-leading 17 interceptions. Interceptions are still bad, right? Those still count? Favre's 6.8 yards-per-attempt also ranks 20th in the league. Yeah, that says excellence.

    Of course, I realize that the decision to add Brett Favre to the AFC Pro Bowl roster was made on the day he was traded to the Jets. I'd argue less about the inclusion of Cutler or Manning, but I'd still argue. Rivers is better than any of them by almost any statistical measure. Other than yards, that is, and Rivers is still pretty comparable there, ranking fifth in the league.

    Yards, really, are the crux of the issue. Not the yards themselves, necessarily, but the reason Rivers doesn't have as many as Cutler or Manning: the fact that his team wasn't as good, he didn't have the ball as much and didn't have as many opportunities. Rivers is out because his team's relative lack of success is being held against him.

    And also because Brett Favre is a gunslinger, he's like a kid out there, he's a grizzly veteran, he loves playing the game and because Wrangler makes Real. Comfortable. Jeans., blah blah blah."
     
  13. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    And on the opposite side, it takes more than the Quarterback to win a game.
     
  14. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    Rivers may have stats that usually earn Pro Bowl nods but he's a jackass. He hasn't earned the respect of his peers or opposing coaches yet because of his immaturity. He doesn't lead by example, namely urging his mates to shut up & play the game. Listen to his interviews. He's got no class. He's got a lot of growing up to do before he can hope to be considered a league leader.
     
  15. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    I like his style. Tell is like it is. IMO, he is leader and should have held the spot Brett has.

     
  16. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    We went for 20 years, anguishing through seasons where 8-8 (it even goes far enough back for 7-7) were heart warming, .500 successes. TWENTY Friggin years !

    Then for nearly 20 years, a man named Favre took snaps for us. During that 16 years, the Packers were the winningest team in all the NFL. Players and coaches and GMs came and went... but something always made us a playoff contender (wonder what (who) that was ?)

    Everybody can make a good forum point. We're all good at that. And there are some well thought out and worded arguments here.

    Mean time, a team that was 4-12 last year looks to make the playoffs. A team that was 13-3 last year is coming apart at the seams. Anybody who knows anything about football can see that McCarthy now realizes how inept TT is..and the team now sees how inept McCarthy is. They've literally quit.. given up.. lost the last two games because of it.

    If you don't realize how much of that comes from not only Favre's new home, but also because of how he was treated the last few years.. I can't wait to hear the excuses you come up with over the next several years. TT has gutted this team of character and chemistry, and it's showing up on game day.

    If by some miracle, the forces in power see the light and fire TT, this down-turn migh last only a year or two. Every season he stays in power, will mean two more years to recover... and we'll probably never recover completely. I'm good friends with a sports writer in Columbus, Ohio. Word is that Hawk (ex Buckeye) is hoping for a trade. "This isn't the Packer team that I was thrilled to be drafted by"...

    Thanks TT..
     
  17. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    [​IMG]

    For the life of me, I'll never understand what all the Favre chasers are doing here now that he is with the Jets.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    1) Better defensive line depth
    Last year, Cullen Jenkins was able to stay all year and provide a pass rush from the right end spot, not to mention holding up extremely well against the run. Corey Williams had 7 sacks from the defensive tackle position while also being versatile enough to play both end positions. The play of these two allowed Johnny Jolley to be what he is, a rotation player. THIS YEAR, THE OPPOSITE HAS HAPPENED. Aaron Kampman has no help and is constantly being doubled.

    2) Better offensive line play
    Tauscher, along with Wells, have been nursing injuries all year. This has caused guys like Tony Moll to start games and Jason Spitz to be moved all over the line.

    3) The Safety position
    Last year, Atari came out of nowhere and dominated the run the game. This year, he's played 7 games, with only 2 of those being at 100%.

    4) The schedule
    Let's be honest with ourself, the schedule was brutal last year. Green Bay got to play the AFC West (Denver, Kansas City, and Oakland were BAAAAAD), the Bears and Vikings were worst last year than they are this year, and the Packers caught the Eagles, Giants, and Redskins at the right time. This year, GB had to play the NFC South, who may be sending 3 teams to playoffs, the Cowboys when healthy, an improved NFC North, and the AFC South.

    You cannot just say "13-3 last year, 5-9 this year because of Favre". Football is too much of team sport for that.
     
  19. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    And some not so well thought out arguments :dull:
     
  20. RobJohnson

    RobJohnson Cheesehead

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    Jennings Long catch..

    How do you explain or explain away this then?


    Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles
    G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

    2007 Green Bay Packers 16 16 356 535 66.5 4,155 7.8 28 15 15 93 95.7 29 12 0.4 0 9 3

    NFL MVP Runner Up?
     
  21. wizard 87

    wizard 87 Old Enough To Know Better

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    To all.....This thread and the MM/TT thread has been allowed to go on so you can both vent and or debate the issues IT will NOT become a p!@#@! match ! Both threads are going to go if things don't calm down. Last and Final warning. [​IMG]
     
  22. 44 blitz

    44 blitz Cheesehead

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    Don't think he doesn't mean it ! [​IMG]
     
  23. ndjb04

    ndjb04 Cheesehead

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    They call it the Pro Bowl for a reason. Its not called the Best Stats Bowl or even the MVP bowl. It is the Professional Bowl. Alot of times players do get voted in for having the best stats or being the most popular. When someone is voted in it's not just by popular vote.
     
  24. Rodgersfan1985

    Rodgersfan1985 Cheesehead

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    Hmmm How did the "great Favre" do today OH YEAH HERE YA GO!!

    18/31 187 yds 0 TD 2 INT AGAINST THE SEAHAWKS!! Im kinda mad cause we wont get our draft pick but I hope this can kinda put some closure on the Rodgers/Favre Debate.
     
  25. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    That is 19 interceptions on the year now for the Pro-bowler Favre. And how many does Rodgers have?? 12?
     

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