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Favre has missed the boat in Green Bay for a Super Bowl

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Cliff, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    What i don't understand is.........the guy (TT) has had 2 seasons. The Packers were 4-12 2 years ago, 8-8 last season. Thats improving, right? And alot of what happens next year depends on WHO will be behind center at the beginning of the season. So how can you just put out a blanket statement that the Packers are done because of TT? You don't have any FACTS to back that up. Just the "they can't do it cause i said so."
    I remember in the early 1990's a bunch of Packer fans who wanted Ron Wolf's head, for trading for some unknown guy named "Farve" or something like that. After all, we had DON MAJKOWSKI! Why would we NEED to WASTE a draft pick on some unknown unproven Falcons reject?
     
  2. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    "Ron Wolf stuck the Packers with Ray Rhodes. He corrected that mistake by sticking the Packers with Mike Sherman."
     
  3. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    You must have missed the revised edition.
     
  4. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    That is the reason why I think the Packers won't get anywhere near the Superbowl if Favre returns next season.

    Getting playmakers is one of the toughest things to do.... Last season we got REALLY lucky that Woodson displayed the playmaking ability that won him so much praise, but he is getting onto 30 now... Donald Driver is also 32, not the best age you want your best WR and skill position talent to be... Favre simply can't do it on his own anymore.

    Forget about getting more playmakers, in a few years we are going to have to replace the only playmakers we have..... so like you asked, where do they come from?

    Easiest solution is the draft, but that in itself is a roll of the dice. Historically, drafting in the top 10 gives you the best shot at that playmaker, and to get that draft position you need to do bad in the regular season.

    The other way is Free Agency, but if you have a young playmaker or potential playmaker set to become a FA, I'd think the team would do everything in its power to get him signed to an extension.

    Thus TT will have to either draft playmakers (it takes a while for any playmaker to come in and get adjusted; results usually follow in the latter part of the rookie season or the second season) or have an amazing eye for identifying playmakers that others have overlooked and sign them in Free Agency. On the draft side, TT loves to accumulate picks, so he increases the chances of getting a playmaker in the later rounds, and TT's good/great eye for talent also helps him out in this regard.

    However one more avenue that the Packers must succeed in, one which would provide immediate relief of the playmaking problem: playmakers developing from within the team.

    Looking at the roster, the young talent certainly has potential: AJ Hawk was a top 5 pick, and he has the skill to be a great one. He still needs work though. Same for Jennings, who impressed me more than Hawk BTW, coming in at WR and making things happen after the catch and having great awareness.

    Two playmakers from one draft are a rare thing, but TT has shown he has the eye to make it happen. Especially with Jennings, TT has proven he can spot out players that can immediately fill the needs of this team, and that gives me hope that TT is the man for the job.
     
  5. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Cliff, do you really believe all this stuff or are you just bored because there's no football today? (this is a serious question).
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Cliff in entitled to his say, just as much as the next person.

    If you don't like the guy, then press the ignore button on his posts and ignore him. DON'T RESORT TO ATTACKING HIM, YOU WILL END UP GETTING SUSPENDED.

    bozz - this isn't directed at you, rather the individual who made the last post that I deleted.
     
  7. smlutz

    smlutz Cheesehead

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    Theres a lot of work to be done. Sherman had our Super Bowl teams...and lost with them.
     
  8. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    I am very serious about what I am saying.

    Ron Wolf and Bob Harlan have screwed up big time. Wolf hiring inexperienced and incompetent Mike Sherman to earn while he learned with a HOF QB in place. Sherman couldn't tweek the solid talent base that he inherited to bring Green Bay a Championship.

    Next Bob Harlan replaces Sherman with a Green Bay retread in Ted Thompson who is feeling his way around while the clock is ticking on Brett Favre's departure. Another earn while you learn GM.

    Do you really think that Aaron Rodgers is going to step into Brett Favre's shoes? That's why I say if TT is bent on building his team via the draft cut Favre loose now. Favre could retire or move on to another NFL team of his choice and TT can move on with his rebuilding project.

    The end is near. When Favre retires it's over!
     
  9. Blackjackking

    Blackjackking Cheesehead

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    Please stop! Do you honestly believe the Packers can compete with teams like Indy, Chicago, New Orleans, and New England ECT...?

    Any of these teams are in a different class, and please don't mention how Green Bay beat the Bears in a meaningless game on 12-31-06, and it was meaningless for the Bears, if you don't thing so watch this years Superbowl!


    Green Bay with Favre is a 6-10 team, at best 8-8. Without they are a 2-14 team, 4-12 at best!
     
  10. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    You make some very good points. I think you agree that TT can't get the job done before Favre retires. When Favre retires there is a big hole at QB which throws a wrench into the works.
     
  11. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I do think that Rodgers will suck. I am pretty sure that he will not work out as our long term starter, and i think it will be a string of losing seasons after Favre retires, but I think Thompson has done an admirable job so far. Favre already said he doesn't want to play anywhere else, so it's not a matter of cutting him loose to allow him to play elsewhere. Ted knows it and we do too. Thompson is trying to secure long term success for the team, hoping that Favre comes back but not casting us back into the situation that Sherman put us in. I agree with you that we need Favre to have any kind of a decent season in 2007 but I strongly disagree that one bad year and one mediocre (but arguably overachieving year) to start out Thompson's time in GB is an indication that Thompson is doing a poor job. Furthermore, most jobs are learn-as-you-go, and Sherman certainly did not. that's why he was canned. I feel that Thompson, on the other hand, has shown that he will continue to improve this franchise.

    [edit] And it doesn't matter who the GM is, when Favre retires that certainly does throw a huge wrench in the spokes. There's nobody in the world who could offset something like that.
     
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Can Ted get it done before Brett retires? Hmm very good question. When will Brett retire? That has to be the first question answered before you can really begin to answer it.

    I said during Ted's second off season that we'd be medicore in 06 and a playoff contender in 07. I'm gonna stick to that, especially since we went 8 - 8 like I thought :p

    How far can we get in the playoffs? I think it really depends on how healthy the team is and how well Brett is playing. Although if we get in the playoffs I can't imagine Brett letting the Packers down. He'd have to know this could be his final song.

    I think realistically speaking, 08 would be the best chance and unfortunately I think Brett will retire after 07 so ... I'd be agreeing with the statement that Ted won't be able to get it done before Brett calls it a career.

    It really depends on this free agency period and draft though.
     
  13. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    I understand your point of view but I do not find 12-20 too encouraging especially with a 6-10 record @ Lambeau. Thompson's 2005 daft was nothing special and in 2006 the Packers were in a great position starting off with a 1st round #5 pick.

    The schedule looks a little tougher in 2007 and it will certainly be a crossroad year for Thompson. If you' re right about Thompson's talent as a GM, their is no reason not to expect the Packers to be a playoff team in 2007. Stay tuned.
     
  14. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Playoffs are a MUST this year for Packers.

    He'll have had three off-seasons to retool this team and he hasn't had to fill the hardest position to fill, QB.

    If we were in the AFC, maybe jus BARELY missing out, but this is the NFC we are in and there is what 4 solid teams?

    If Brett is gone, fine, one more year, but if Brett err when Brett plays this year, we have to make the playoffs otherwise how can anyone say Ted is getting is in the right direction?
    CURRENTLY, I think we are moving in the right direction, but if we go less than .500 next season, we are regressing.
     
  15. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    Which actually means that TT won't get it done. When Brett Favre retires it won't be pretty!
     
  16. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I don't think its gonna be fun when Brett retires. I don't think Aaron can 'win' games for us, but I don't see him being the rex ... err the reason we lose games either. More like a Trent Dilfer type.
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Yes and No. The big problem with Mike Sherman was he was a control freak. He would not listen to his scouts very often from what is said. It was always his call and no one else’s. That's how the story goes. Jonnie Gray, Harry Sydney, and Chris Havel have preached it since he's left. I would assume they are reporting accurate information. So Sherman really is a lot to blame for his drafts.

    As for Ted Thompson. The jury is still out. He's had one solid off season in his 2 year career as Packers GM. I thought his options were very limited in his 1st off season but none the less he completely screwed up the offensive line that year with the free agent signings. Part of the problem with people hating him is they want him to spend-spend-spend because they want Favre to go out like John Elway. They think this is the best chance we'll ever have. Maybe but personally the best chance we ever had was between the tenures of Wolf and Thompson. I think if Favre commits to one more year we have a legit shot at the Playoffs. Pending what we do next year, he could come back again. If so then it would not shock me to see GB in the Super Bowl especially if Favre is playing at a good level. You just don’t know. Just 2 years ago the Bears had the 5th overall pick in the Draft. Look where they are now. The Saints were 3-13 last year. They made a lot of changes. Their 2 biggest playmakers for Brees were Bush and Colston. Two Rookies!!! NFL is full of parity. Green Bay could go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl next year or 3-13 and be picking #1. That is what makes the NFL so great.

    As for not winning a Super Bowl. Could be right, could be wrong. I can guarantee a Super Bowl under Thompson and that would be speculating just like that statement. However winning a Super Bowl is tough. 32 teams and only one team wins it a year. So your really not making that "bold" of a statement.
     
  18. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    What""

    I thought he had been to 2 superbowls... Somebody wake this guy up!
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    How many players are drafted each year. Isn't like 250 or something? How many of those guys become stars? A handful. A player can make a GM look great, or like an idiot. It's all a crap shoot.
    Now, if the Pack can get a few important holes filled, why CAN'T they make a run next year if Favre comes back? I think they can. Look at how many teams make it to the SB that arn't really "great" teams. Pittsburgh last year did it. Everything bounced their way it seemed. Or Tampa Bay the one year. You can go down the list and see quite a few that were surprises. Heck, even the BEARS with Rex Grossman at the wheel are playing in the SB!
     
  20. net

    net Cheesehead

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    The ROTTT(Reign of Ted Thompson Terror) is in full swing.

    I'm not going to re-hash this all again(as is often the case this time of year since there's virtually no news out of Packerland), but Ted has banked the future on the ability of build a "core" of players.

    The main thing to look at when you look at the Packers in 2007 is:

    "How many championship-level players does the team have?"

    If you look at the Super Bowl teams, you can rattle off a half-dozen players on both of them who have top-of-the-game players.

    Packers: Driver, maybe Green and Favre, though Favre's QB rating is behind Grossman's if you can believe it(NFL.com stats).
    Defense: Hawk, Kampman, Harris, Woodson, maybe Barnett.

    But of that group, Woodson and Kampman are going to the Pro Bowl. Driver is going on offense.

    Cliff is right that by the time this team jells, it could be 2-3 years down the road. But if you look at the Colts, Bears, New England, etc. you see many names.

    The scouts call them "Blue" players-or Pro Bowl caliber. Not everyone can make the Pro Bowl, you need to good foot soldiers, like Scott Wells.

    But when you fall into the trap that everyone ROTTT drafts is the next superstar, you fail to realize that next year the Packers MIGHT BE back where they were in 2003. They also will face a brutal schedule again. ROTTT'S first draft is worth looking at again, especially when you consider you hope Favre returns because the other options aren't nearly as good.

    A reporter pointed out this weekend that the Bears rebuilt(like New England does) by relying on free agency as much as the draft. Ted loves cheap bodies, but the question remains open whether he will "net" enough top level players to put them over the top.

    Marquand Manuel anyone? Is this Ted Thompson's Joe Johnson?

    If they don't, he can blame McCarthy, which would be too bad. Mike's a decent guy trying to do a good job.

    Lovie Smith took over and promptly said his goal was to defeat the Packers as division champs. Now the field is reversed, and can the Packers beat the Bears as division champs? This off-season will be critical for the team. He needs to find some offensive weapons and hope Favre returns.
     
  21. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Favre's QB rating is behind Grossman net because he had very little running game and 1 receiving threat AGAIN, when Jennings went down...

    Little hard to succeed with 1/2 an offense who can only run 1/2 the plays in the playbook, according to McCarthy, because the rookies were still "learning" on the job....
     
  22. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Of COURSE it's easy to name players on great teams. They get all the publicity. If the Packers went all the way next year, they would get noticed alot more too.
    Look at the Bears..........other then Urlacher, is there any players that jump out as stars? Hester has had a GREAT rookie year, but is he a one time wonder? We don't know yet.
    Every year you can say "the off seson is critical". It is for EVERY team.
    A couple moves can make or break a team.
     
  23. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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  24. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    ** Please refrain from resorting to such antics when posting, if you don't like a member, ignore them as opposed to attacking them

    Did anyone think the saints would be in the NFC championship game. i guess cliff did. Truth is, every single team in the NFL is on the brink. They ALL have NFL caliber players. thats how they got here, they are good enough to play in the NFL it comes down to coaching, gelling together, executing under pressure and a whole lot of freakin luck. Cheesey is right, there are no PLAYMAKERS (whatever the hell that means anyway) on the chicago bears. Devin hester ran back a few kicks. DONT KICK TO HIM... and hes done. favre > grossman. cant hardly name the recievers for the bears. its all about the right system and combination of players at the right time.

    You throw in the right mix of guys on this team and we, just like any other mediocre team last year, can be deep in the playoffs. its not impossible. and anyone who says it is, JUST WANTS TO BE MISERABLE.
     
  25. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Hate to say it, but the Bears have an OVERALL better receiving corps than the Packers...can you imagine what Favre would have done with the Bear receivers..??


    Bares:

    Receiving Stats
    Player No Yds Avg Long TD
    Muhsin Muhammad 60 863 14.4 40 5
    Bernard Berrian 51 775 15.2 62 6
    Desmond Clark 45 626 13.9 33 6
    Thomas Jones 36 154 4.3 21 0
    Jason McKie 25 162 6.5 26 0
    Rashied Davis 22 303 13.8 31 2
    Mark Bradley 14 282 20.1 75 3
    Cedric Benson 8 54 6.8 22 0
    John Gilmore 6 38 6.3 18 2
    Adrian Peterson 6 88 14.7 37 0
    Bryan Johnson 5 15 3.0 7 0
    Gabe Reid 4 37 9.3 19 0
    Justin Gage 4 68 17.0 34 0
    Rex Grossman 1 -4 -4.0 0 0

    Packers:

    Receiving
    Name G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD Fum FumL
    Donald Driver 16 92 1295 80.9 14.1 82 5.9 53 8 1 0
    Greg Jennings 14 45 632 45.1 14.0 75 6.2 30 3 1 0
    Ahman Green 14 46 373 26.6 8.1 20 9.3 14 1 4 2
    Ruvell Martin 13 21 358 27.5 17.0 36 5.6 16 1 0 0
    Bubba Franks 16 25 232 14.5 9.3 19 4.9 13 0 2 1
    Noah Herron 16 29 211 13.2 7.3 16 7.7 12 2 1 1
    David Martin 11 21 198 18.0 9.4 23 3.9 13 2 0 0
    Donald Lee 15 10 150 10.0 15.0 32 7.3 8 0 0 0
    Carlyle Holiday 4 9 126 31.5 14.0 35 4.8 6 0 0 0
    Vernand Morency 13 16 112 8.6 7.0 29 7.4 4 0 2 1
    Koren Robinson 4 7 89 22.3 12.7 24 2.9 6 0 0 0
    William Henderson 14 12 62 4.4 5.2 13 5.3 3 0 0 0
    Brandon Miree 10 9 57 5.7 6.3 20 3.4 3 0 0 0
    Robert Ferguson 4 5 31 7.8 6.2 10 -0.2 2 1 0 0
    Chris Francies 6 2 16 2.7 8.0 12 4.0 2 0 0 0
    Samkon Gado 1 1 5 5.0 5.0 5 8.0 0 0 0 0
     

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