RedSoxExcel
Cheesehead
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I'm at work, its a Monday, I don't want to do anything. So I took the time to research the Favre "big game choke theory". I have come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, all our Packers teams off the past, just wern't that good to begin with regardless of Favre's "crucial" INT's. Note - looking back, what an awesome way to destroy an hour of work. It's already 1 something, I'm out of here in a few hours!
Whoever believes in the big game choke theory, please reply, I can be convinced, I'm not a Favre homer. I think he's great but he's not the greatest of all time.
2008 Playoffs - First off to who ever said in another thread that it was Grants 200+ yards that made Favre look good against Seattle. It was 14-0! Favre led two drives to make it 14-14. He palyed a perfect game, if you can't see that your blind. Giants game, YES, bad throw in OT. He played with NO rushing game in ice cold weather. Maybe just maybe, you shouldn't ask a QB to put hte game on his shoulders in weather like that. Yes Eli Manning burned Harris, but he also HAD a running game. The Giants made Romo and Brady look silly. You did not lose that game JUST because of Favre's "INT problem". He led the youngest team in the NFL to a 13-3 record! And stop saying it was Ryan Grant. The Packers were 6-1 when Grant started stepping up. Tehre are multiple games were Favre just plain dominated, including @ Giants and @ Broncos. That pass in OT against the Broncos?!
Minnesota Game - 2005 Playoffs - If you remember, the Vikings took a 14-0 lead in the first quarter. That defense was garbage, how many times have you seen ANY QB lead a team with a garbage defense to a Super Bowl title. It was 24-10 by the 2nd Q. Then Longwell misses a 27 yard FG. Yeah he threw INT's. Was that game his fault? With 24-17 in the 4th quarter, Randy Moss absolutely destroyed Al Harris one on one and 31-17 (WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A FAVRE INT). Then Moss goes on to moon Lambeau field. That defense was terrible, the Vikings could score on will.
Philadelphia Game - 2004 Playoffs - After Favre wins against Seattle - 2 td's, no INT's - defense gives up 27 points against Seattle at home. This game is apprently blamed on Favre. Favre DOESN'T throw a single INT during regulation. ON THE ROAD IN PHILADELPHIA. Puts hte team in a position to win. 4th and f'n 26. If you defense can't stop a 4th and 26, you are not a Super Bowl team. Yes, STUPID throw by Favre in OT. You lead your team to a 4th quarter lead on the road against the #1 team, your defense has a 4th and 26 and you don't stop them.
Atlanta Game - 2003 Playoffs - Terrible game by Favre (in terms of execution not INT's) AND the Packers defense though - 2 INT's. Defense gives up a Vick 76 yard drive to start off game for a TD. I've looked back this game log. Favre's first INT, lead to NO points. Then we have a god d*mn PUNT blocked for a TD. 14-0 already. 2nd Quarter, FG missed by Longwell (pattern?). Vick goes and leads Falcons to a 67 yard drive. 21-0. Then Favre drives the team down to the Atlanta goaline. For some reason we run on 4th and 2. 4-2-ATL 2 (6:37) A.Green up the middle to ATL 6 for -4 yards (E.Johnson). VICK goes to lead the Falcons to a 90 yard drive! 90! For a FG luckily, its 24-0. 2nd Half. Favre leads packers to TD. 24-7. IMMEDIATELY AFTER, VICK LEADS the Falcons to an 80 yard drive that ends in a FG luckily, 27-7. Another Packers drive, again can't get in the end zone (lack of execution) - Longwell misses a FG (pattern?). Immediately after, Vick again leads the team 60 yards but luckily missed Feeley FG. Favre's 2nd INT comes 27-7, with 5 mins left in the 4th quarter. 4-11-GB 42 (3:39) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass intended for J.Walker INTERCEPTED by K.Carpenter (R.Buchanan) at ATL 37. K.Carpenter to ATL 40 for 3 yards (R.Ferguson). Leads to no points. MY GOD, OUR DEFENSE SUCKED. We were NOT going to the Super Bowl with a team that allows Vick to drive 80 yards on will. Someone explain to me how Favre's INT's lost us that game?
Also note in those 3 games, our defense provided no big turnovers. Or special team plays with Longwell missing crucial FG's and blocked f'n punt. Which if I remember correctly, if Sherman challenges it, the play turns out completely different?
St. Louis Rams - 2002 Playoffs - We beat SF. Go on to face the Rams in St. Louis. Favre stinks it up. I will give you that one. Though I think that Rams team was awesome that should have won the SB against the Pats. But yeah you can blame the reason why we didn't beat the Rams on the road was because of Favre. Every QB in the history of the game has had a bad game. I never claim Favre is the greatest of all time, he is human.
San Francisco - 1999 Playoffs - We have the lead. 27-23. Then there was Young. Then there was Owens. We had the lead ON the road in SF against a HOF QB and WR. Jerry Rice still fumbled the ball! How you can blame Favre not stepping up in that game is beyond me. He led the team on a drive to take the lead, then it was up to the defense.
Denver - 1998 Playoffs - We beat SF IN SF - Rice, Young. We go to the SB. Favre throws 3 TD's, 1 INT. You cannot possibly blame that loss on Favre choking in the big game and his INT costing us the game. Is it possible that Terrel Davis running for 150+ yards on us had something more to do with that loss than Favre's INT. Do you even remember when that INT was?
Denver - 1997 Playoffs- This is the biggest load of crap that Desmond Howard is the reason why the Packers won and without him Favre would have never won a Super Bowl. Favre had 3 huge TD's in that game and NO INT's.
Point being, maybe, just maybe, these Packers teams that a lot of you refer to as "Super Bowl" contenders that Favre ruined with his INT's just wern't that good to begin with. And Favre was a big reason that (being a top 10 QB of all time) got us to a point to where we were even in big games? Yes St. Louis Rams, I will give you that. But I want to hear you dispute the other games. Favre had amazing defenses in 1997 and 1998. Result, Super Bowl. And if it wasn't for Terrel Davis, we have two. Favre was never blessed with a HOF running back like Elway. He never had WR's (though solid) the class of Rice, Owens or Moss. Our defense was never that dominant other than the Reggie White years, which we did just fine with 2 Super Bowl trips. LOOK AT THAT FALCONS GAME. MICHAEL VICK?! Why not stop putting so much blame on Favre (some blame is warranted IMO), and start complaining more about how our defense has stunk it up in multiple big games.
Look at your past Super Bowl winners. Giants - that defense is unreal. Colts defense BAILED out Manning against the Ravens. He threw 2 INT's, no TD's, won 15-6. In the Super Bowl, you take away that Hester TD, they hold them to 10 points. That Steelers defense of 2006. The Pats dynasty defense (all those Super Bowl wins were not just because of Tom Brady). That Ravens defense, etc.
NOT TO MENTION COACHING. Tony Dungy, Bill Billichek, Bill Cowher, come on. Put Ray Rhodes or Mike Sherman with Joe Montana and see what happens. Favre needed a great coach like Holmgrom (like McCarthy). Joe Montana had Bill f'n Walsch, Tom Brady has Belichek, Manning has Dungy, Aikman had Jimmy Johnson, etc.
If you ever expected Favre to win without a great defense, your expectations were too high IMO. He is a top 10 QB (maybe top 5) of all time but it's a team game and he shouldn't get all the credit (he played with one of the most potent defenses I've ever seen in 1997 and 1998 - plus Mike Holmgrom was an awesome coach). but he shouldn't get all the blame.
MAYBE WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE COACHING OR DEFENSE TO WIN CHAMPIONSIHPS AFTER 1998 - And Favre "choking" in big games isn't the reason?
Whoever believes in the big game choke theory, please reply, I can be convinced, I'm not a Favre homer. I think he's great but he's not the greatest of all time.
2008 Playoffs - First off to who ever said in another thread that it was Grants 200+ yards that made Favre look good against Seattle. It was 14-0! Favre led two drives to make it 14-14. He palyed a perfect game, if you can't see that your blind. Giants game, YES, bad throw in OT. He played with NO rushing game in ice cold weather. Maybe just maybe, you shouldn't ask a QB to put hte game on his shoulders in weather like that. Yes Eli Manning burned Harris, but he also HAD a running game. The Giants made Romo and Brady look silly. You did not lose that game JUST because of Favre's "INT problem". He led the youngest team in the NFL to a 13-3 record! And stop saying it was Ryan Grant. The Packers were 6-1 when Grant started stepping up. Tehre are multiple games were Favre just plain dominated, including @ Giants and @ Broncos. That pass in OT against the Broncos?!
Minnesota Game - 2005 Playoffs - If you remember, the Vikings took a 14-0 lead in the first quarter. That defense was garbage, how many times have you seen ANY QB lead a team with a garbage defense to a Super Bowl title. It was 24-10 by the 2nd Q. Then Longwell misses a 27 yard FG. Yeah he threw INT's. Was that game his fault? With 24-17 in the 4th quarter, Randy Moss absolutely destroyed Al Harris one on one and 31-17 (WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A FAVRE INT). Then Moss goes on to moon Lambeau field. That defense was terrible, the Vikings could score on will.
Philadelphia Game - 2004 Playoffs - After Favre wins against Seattle - 2 td's, no INT's - defense gives up 27 points against Seattle at home. This game is apprently blamed on Favre. Favre DOESN'T throw a single INT during regulation. ON THE ROAD IN PHILADELPHIA. Puts hte team in a position to win. 4th and f'n 26. If you defense can't stop a 4th and 26, you are not a Super Bowl team. Yes, STUPID throw by Favre in OT. You lead your team to a 4th quarter lead on the road against the #1 team, your defense has a 4th and 26 and you don't stop them.
Atlanta Game - 2003 Playoffs - Terrible game by Favre (in terms of execution not INT's) AND the Packers defense though - 2 INT's. Defense gives up a Vick 76 yard drive to start off game for a TD. I've looked back this game log. Favre's first INT, lead to NO points. Then we have a god d*mn PUNT blocked for a TD. 14-0 already. 2nd Quarter, FG missed by Longwell (pattern?). Vick goes and leads Falcons to a 67 yard drive. 21-0. Then Favre drives the team down to the Atlanta goaline. For some reason we run on 4th and 2. 4-2-ATL 2 (6:37) A.Green up the middle to ATL 6 for -4 yards (E.Johnson). VICK goes to lead the Falcons to a 90 yard drive! 90! For a FG luckily, its 24-0. 2nd Half. Favre leads packers to TD. 24-7. IMMEDIATELY AFTER, VICK LEADS the Falcons to an 80 yard drive that ends in a FG luckily, 27-7. Another Packers drive, again can't get in the end zone (lack of execution) - Longwell misses a FG (pattern?). Immediately after, Vick again leads the team 60 yards but luckily missed Feeley FG. Favre's 2nd INT comes 27-7, with 5 mins left in the 4th quarter. 4-11-GB 42 (3:39) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass intended for J.Walker INTERCEPTED by K.Carpenter (R.Buchanan) at ATL 37. K.Carpenter to ATL 40 for 3 yards (R.Ferguson). Leads to no points. MY GOD, OUR DEFENSE SUCKED. We were NOT going to the Super Bowl with a team that allows Vick to drive 80 yards on will. Someone explain to me how Favre's INT's lost us that game?
Also note in those 3 games, our defense provided no big turnovers. Or special team plays with Longwell missing crucial FG's and blocked f'n punt. Which if I remember correctly, if Sherman challenges it, the play turns out completely different?
St. Louis Rams - 2002 Playoffs - We beat SF. Go on to face the Rams in St. Louis. Favre stinks it up. I will give you that one. Though I think that Rams team was awesome that should have won the SB against the Pats. But yeah you can blame the reason why we didn't beat the Rams on the road was because of Favre. Every QB in the history of the game has had a bad game. I never claim Favre is the greatest of all time, he is human.
San Francisco - 1999 Playoffs - We have the lead. 27-23. Then there was Young. Then there was Owens. We had the lead ON the road in SF against a HOF QB and WR. Jerry Rice still fumbled the ball! How you can blame Favre not stepping up in that game is beyond me. He led the team on a drive to take the lead, then it was up to the defense.
Denver - 1998 Playoffs - We beat SF IN SF - Rice, Young. We go to the SB. Favre throws 3 TD's, 1 INT. You cannot possibly blame that loss on Favre choking in the big game and his INT costing us the game. Is it possible that Terrel Davis running for 150+ yards on us had something more to do with that loss than Favre's INT. Do you even remember when that INT was?
Denver - 1997 Playoffs- This is the biggest load of crap that Desmond Howard is the reason why the Packers won and without him Favre would have never won a Super Bowl. Favre had 3 huge TD's in that game and NO INT's.
Point being, maybe, just maybe, these Packers teams that a lot of you refer to as "Super Bowl" contenders that Favre ruined with his INT's just wern't that good to begin with. And Favre was a big reason that (being a top 10 QB of all time) got us to a point to where we were even in big games? Yes St. Louis Rams, I will give you that. But I want to hear you dispute the other games. Favre had amazing defenses in 1997 and 1998. Result, Super Bowl. And if it wasn't for Terrel Davis, we have two. Favre was never blessed with a HOF running back like Elway. He never had WR's (though solid) the class of Rice, Owens or Moss. Our defense was never that dominant other than the Reggie White years, which we did just fine with 2 Super Bowl trips. LOOK AT THAT FALCONS GAME. MICHAEL VICK?! Why not stop putting so much blame on Favre (some blame is warranted IMO), and start complaining more about how our defense has stunk it up in multiple big games.
Look at your past Super Bowl winners. Giants - that defense is unreal. Colts defense BAILED out Manning against the Ravens. He threw 2 INT's, no TD's, won 15-6. In the Super Bowl, you take away that Hester TD, they hold them to 10 points. That Steelers defense of 2006. The Pats dynasty defense (all those Super Bowl wins were not just because of Tom Brady). That Ravens defense, etc.
NOT TO MENTION COACHING. Tony Dungy, Bill Billichek, Bill Cowher, come on. Put Ray Rhodes or Mike Sherman with Joe Montana and see what happens. Favre needed a great coach like Holmgrom (like McCarthy). Joe Montana had Bill f'n Walsch, Tom Brady has Belichek, Manning has Dungy, Aikman had Jimmy Johnson, etc.
If you ever expected Favre to win without a great defense, your expectations were too high IMO. He is a top 10 QB (maybe top 5) of all time but it's a team game and he shouldn't get all the credit (he played with one of the most potent defenses I've ever seen in 1997 and 1998 - plus Mike Holmgrom was an awesome coach). but he shouldn't get all the blame.
MAYBE WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE COACHING OR DEFENSE TO WIN CHAMPIONSIHPS AFTER 1998 - And Favre "choking" in big games isn't the reason?