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Everyone blames the D where is the blame for the O

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I never thought of this during the game or even days afterwards..

    But on 1250 am Milwaukee Gary Ellerson brought up where is the blame for the offense..

    Tied game at 14..Packers have ball and can put real pressure on the Niners..Rodgers tosses that what were you thinking pass and it is intercepted.......Niners make it 21-14 8 plays later

    it was 24-21 at half..

    Packers get ball and can't do anything..They punt.....Def hold Niners to 3 and out..

    The offense makes a nice long drive and tie the game with fg 24-24

    Then the big Kolin 56 yard run..they are up 31-24

    Offense needs to get a Td to tie it up as it really shows we can't stop them..6 plays, 2 catches for 4 yards and one long scramble result in Packers punt...They only use 2:07 minutes.

    Niners use 5 mins and go up 38-24...Our def is really tired now and it is showing..

    Packers REALLY need to score and use only 4 mins, but on 4th and 5 on our 49 they punt....This is the nail in the coffin....MM blew that one BIG TIME

    I know when we needed them, the def had to stop and couldnt...

    But you have one of the best if not best q/b in the league and you only get a FG in 28 minutes of the 2nd half?

    Why isn't anyone calling for MM head to be fired, or step down from OC? This is 2nd time in two years they couldnt score when needed to in playoffs
     
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  2. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    True, the only blame I have on the offense though is that we didn't go for it on that 4th down on the 50. Other than that, I believe 24 points-31 points should be enough to win a playoff game and if not, you shouldn't go to the super bowl.
     
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  3. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Offense didn't play well enough either, but I do think they knew that it was going to be up to them to win this game. They knew the defense wasn't going to help them out. And I think the offense started to press. Too much. That's on them; they panicked a bit, didn't keep their cool, buckled a bit under the pressure. Again, on them.

    But here's the difference:
    The defense got absolutely steam-rolled. They were impotent; helpless.
    The offense put the burden of responsibility on their own back and, yes, they fell short.

    BUT....
    The defense did. not. produce. : 579 yards given up, 45 points, and an all-time record 181 rushing yards to Kaepernick. They made the Cardinals and Giants games look like nail-biters in comparison..... are people really acknowledging how pathetic last week's "performance" was?

    The offense did produce: it wasn't up to the standard we expect, but they DID score 31 points.

    And they did it against one of the very best defenses in the league; a defense that is engineered to stop teams like the Packers, especially when they're playing with a lead. Not close to our best performances of the season in any of the three facets of the game, to be sure. But the eye test alone illustrates that the defense was THE problem.
     
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  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Offense scored 24 points not 31..7 was from the pick 6.

    I agree 100%, that scoring 24 points should be enough. And 90% of blame goes on def for not stopping them.....It was 45- 24 with 2 mins to go...

    if you take away the garbage 7 points with 2 mins to go...That offense really only got 17 points..

    Much different outlook now..


    But if the 2 or 3 drives in the 2nd half went for 6 or 7 or 8 plays and more then 3 minutes, (even if not a score) would that have given the def some much needed rest?

    Which in turn may have led to the D stopping them on 3rd downs and punting and not scoring?

    257 yards from Rodgers....2 tds (but one was with 2 mins to go) and an int is acceptable performance from the reigning MVP??? Is EVERYONE fine with how he played as a whole?
     
  5. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    I agree that the offense was no help to the Def in the 2nd half. Besides that 7 points for the Int there were also the 7 points scored off of the muffed punt.

    I think this highlights the issues we had with our O line and the run game. Both of which were beat to hell over the course of the season. I still do not understand why MM gave up on the run so early in the 2nd half but you can't leave your D on the field for the amount of time it was out there.

    probably accounts for why things went downhill so quick at the end of the 3rd and the 4th quarter. Still firmly believe that the way MM and DC had to jury rig the team as the injuries to many key players on both sides of the ball piled up. Next man up sounds like a good slogan but after your talent pool is gashed so deep, production and play start to drop. I am still amazed they were able to get this team to the divisional with the patch work team they had to deal with all year. Boad's well for next seasons depth though. A lot of young talent got playing time and experience they would not have had otherwise.
     
  6. Wood Chipper

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    Offense in the second half was pathetic and that pick by Rodgers was something I cannot explain.
     
  7. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I would say the pass to Nelson that was intercepted wasn't "what were you thinking?".

    Rodgers threw to the right guy, he was covered 1-on-1. His mistake was ball placement. If he underthrows it, Nelson gets the catch. Lead him to the right, and Nelson probably gets the catch. It is entirely possible that the ball just slipped a little.
     
  8. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The offense was pretty stinky although Harris was doing alright against a pretty good run defense. Overall his stats were 11 for 53 and 1TD, averaging 4.8 yards per rush. For additional context, you can pull out Harris' shortest and longest runs (outliers) which brings his rushing average to 3.7 yards. Cobb went 2 for 23 and Rodgers had 3 scrambles for 28. That's 104 rushing yards but here is the real meat:

    The Packers went 3-and-out to start the game on 3 passes. On the Packers only TD of significance (not in garbage time), McCarthy/Rodgers called 2 pass plays and 5 rushes. Score! On the next three possessions, Harris got the ball twice each drive and gained 2 yards, 3 yards, 3 yards, 3 yards, 3 yards, and 3 yards resulting in an INT, a FG, and a punt on those three drives. There was decent commitment to the run in those drive (6 rushes on 14 plays) but low production. Harris touched the ball for the last time after only 1.5 minutes into the 2nd half. One could surmise that Harris wasn't gaining enough yardage, but they always say that a defense wears down as the game progresses.

    At this point, McCarthy then switched to Randall Cobb rushing him twice out of the shotgun for 23 yards. That was truly the last time that McCarthy/Rodgers called a rushing play, not even half way through the 3rd quarter! To put that in perspective, after Harris' touchdown in the 1st quarter, Green Bay rushed on 8 of 46 plays - a 17% ratio! That's a pathetic rush/pass balance.

    The game was close when McCarthy shut down Harris, with the score still 21-24. When Cobb had his two rushes the score was 24-31, just a one touchdown game and well within reach. IMO - The game was still close but McCarthy panicked and went into shotgun pass mode way too early, allowing the defense to shut down Rodgers and the 49ers to run away with the game.
     
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  9. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    How was the offense responsible for the muffed punt??:confused:
     
  10. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Hell, I don't know. Must have lost my train of though.:whistling:
     
  11. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    My contention is, seeing that your defense showed a lack of discipline leading to an inability to stop the opposing offense, why would you give the ball away and pin it on said defense? To me that showed MM had a lack of confidence in the offense. Because I put the game on the line and go for it. Game was pretty much over after that anyway.
     
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  12. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Thanks for the corrections; I wasn't careful enough. But I do stand by my point: they (and Rodgers especially) had more confidence in the offense pressing and being able to make something happen, than they had in the defense. Neither was able to rise to the challenge, but level of failure between the two is not comparable. And the offense was able to get closer, with the 49ers knowing exactly what our offense was being asked to do, than the defense ever was.
     
  13. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    Ultimately, defense wins the Super Bowl, time after time after time. We saw it last year, and the year before, and just about every year before that. Even the Patriots, as efficiently as they move the ball on offense, can not win against a good solid defense. We had a good solid defense in 2010 - by season's end it was near the best. What did our offense get us in the 2011 season?

    It is so predictable. In 2010, one could see by the end of the season, anything was possible. Last year, however, one had a lot of doubts, given how teams were racking up record amounts of yards on us. This year, we were better than last year on defense, but not good enough to win it all. If not SF, then New England probably would have scored at will on us.

    Offense is important. (How would things go if Rodgers was out) But to win it all, top-shelf defense is a must.
     
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    These are the types of games the stat-crunchers are referring to when they say Rodgers is not good at, compared to guys like Eli Manning, and apparently now Andrew Luck.
    Had Rodgers played great, and matched their running scores with passing-driven touchdowns, who knows what happens.
    The game was close enough until that part you allude to.

    It gives more credence to those critics..... when things are rolling, everything is swell.
    At least Rodgers brought us back against Arizona in the 2009 playoff game.
     
  15. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Well said!
    Good stuff.

    They never really stopped our running game.
    It may have been another game where MM or AR just had to get the ball in Cobb's hands, and it sacrificed what was working pretty well before then.
    This angle, weirdly, seems to be kind of the only thing Greg Jennings wacky sister mentioned that I might agree with.... it seems like they had a pre-conceived notion that they had to get a certain amount of touches for Cobb.
    Our old offense, Rodgers just spread it around to the open guy.

    I thought the OL blocked pretty well.... and Harris ran well.
     
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  16. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Fact is we got pummeled on both sides of the ball. Defense had no answer for the read option, and offense squandered multiple opportunities to keep pace and even take the lead. Simply put, we got beat.
     
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  17. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    The offense wasn't great, but the 9ers have a great defense. We're not going to put 45 points on the board against them, ever. If we're going to beat them, we need our defense to keep the score down. They didn't do that, so look at the front seven and see what we can do to fix that. That's our biggest problem right now.
     
  18. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I hope that your attitude wasn't present on the Packers team. San Francisco's "great defense" gave up 34 to New England and 42 to Seattle in Weeks 15 & 16! A top offense with the reigning MVP QB should be able to duplicate that feat.

    We put up 42 on Houston and 38 on New York. We had the ability to do it, but we just failed. There is no reason to think that we can't do it!
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    what was he was he thinking = he missed his target.

    Poor choice of words but its the same thing
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    So that is why Baltimore is always in the SB???
     
  21. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    You need offense too as I said. But compare the 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 Packers - what is the big difference? And 2008 was an incredible failure primarily because of our defense. If anything, our offense has improved since 2010.
     
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...-defense-wins-championships-49ers-stats-picks

    Average defensive rankings of Super Bowl champs since 2003
    Rushing defense: 12.6
    Passing defense: 13.6
    Total defense: 11.8
    Red zone defense: 13.0
    Sacks: 7.0
    Interceptions: 9.3
    Fumble recoveries: 12.3
    Turnovers: 9.0
    Points allowed: 10.6
    Average offensive rankings of Super Bowl champs since 2003
    Rushing offense: 16.2
    Passing offense: 10.9
    Total offense: 10.9
    Red zone offense: 9.7
    Sacks allowed: 11.8
    Interceptions: 11.2
    Fumbles: 15.1
    Turnovers: 12.4
    Points: 9.0

    The Super Bowl winner with the best defense over the past nine years was the 2008 Steelers, who had an average rank of 4.8 in the defensive categories. That Steelers team also had the worst offense, with 18.8 ranking in the offensive categories.

    — The team with the best offense over the past nine years was the 2006 Colts, who had an average rank of 5.0. The 2006 Colts also had the worst defense, with an average rank of 21.9.

    — Five of nine teams had a top 10 average ranking on the defensive side of the ball. Three teams had a top 10 average ranking on the offensive side.

    — On defense, it appears that pressuring the quarterback and creating turnovers are more important than total points allowed. The past nine champs had the most statistical success in sacks, total takeaways and interceptions.

    Six teams (2011 Giants, 2010 Packers, 2008 Steelers, 2007 Giants, 2005 Steelers, 2004 Patriots, 2003 Patriots) ranked in the top three in the league in sacks. Only one team ranked in the bottom half, the 2006 Colts. (But that Colts team did sack Tom Brady three times in the AFC championship game to finally get past their nemesis.)

    — For takeaways and interceptions, six teams also ranked in the top 10. The 2009 Saints were one of the worst recent champs in points allowed (20th in the league), but they were second in the league in takeaways. Those Saints also had the second best offense of the past nine champs, behind only the 2006 Colts.

    For points allowed, five teams ranked in the top four. However, three teams (2011 Giants, 2009 Saints, 2006 Colts) were 20th or worse.
    - On offense, the highest averages were points scored and red zone offense. In each category, six of the nine teams ranked in the top 10.
    Here’s how the past nine champs graded on offense (average rank in the nine categories listed above) and defense (average rank in the nine categories listed above), plus their average rank in all 18 categories. The 2004 Patriots had the best total rank and were the only team with both a top 10 defense and a top 10 offense:
    2011 Giants
    Offense: 13.0. Defense: 15.6. Total: 14.3
    2010 Packers
    Offense: 11.0. Defense: 8.8. Total: 9.9
    2009 Saints
    Offense: 8.0. Defense: 13.2. Total: 10.6
    2008 Steelers
    Offense: 18.8. Defense: 4.8. Total: 11.8
    2007 Giants
    Offense: 16.4 Defense: 14.8. Total: 15.6.
    2006 Colts
    Offense: 5.0. Defense: 21.9. Total: 15.6.
    2005 Steelers
    Offense: 10.2. Defense: 8.0. Total: 9.1.
    2004 Patriots
    Offense: 10.0. Defense: 5.9. Total: 8.0.
    2003 Patriots
    Offense: 14.8. Defense: 6.2. Total: 10.5.
     
  23. Forderick

    Forderick Cheesehead

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    If you actually look at the last 4 teams standing, they all run the ball. and stick with it for the most part.
    The patriots offence stays relevant because they change. Teams have gotten smaller and faster on defence and the teams that actually run the ball and stick with it are having more success this year.

    Your offence has to change to take advantage of the changes in the defences. The packers are stuck in 2010 when the passing game was the big thing and now defences have adapted to counter this.

    The nfl goes in cycles every so often. the packers failed to adapt.
     
  24. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    This is why Teddy used his top 2 picks on guys they thought could get to the QB: Nick Perry & Jerel Worthy, and why they added another DL who had slippery pass rush ability in Mike Daniels, and another Hawkeye in Dezmon Moses.

    Here's a thing to remember though: James Harrison was the leading sacker for about a 3-year period, maybe 4.
    But it took him some time to get there. He was undrafted. He was released a couple of times. He was a Raven. Then a Steeler.

    So we can't close the door yet on Nick Perry and even Moses. I love Perry, and like Moses a lot.
    Mike Neal was good this year.. surprise. But can he stay healthy again?

    CJ Wilson, it would be nice if he could learn how to beat blocks and get to a QB.
    Same with Pickett, and Raji.

    If QB's are pressured to throw it a bit sooner than they want, that will lead to Ints.
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    We were 5th in scoring offense this year, 27.1 per game
    2010 10th with 24.2 per game

    so that sort of blows your theory out of the water
     

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