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End of season evaluations... ?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by paulska, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    What I want to know is this:
    1. How does Mike McCarthy continue to back Shawn Slocum? The guy is terrible, period. Not even a remote clue on the fake for a TD yesterday, and no less than a former top 5 pick and million year vet who is so smart he's been kept around because of how he runs the defense muffs the coverage on a guy who has no business catching a football under the faintest coverage... Bostick's miscue? He can't catch the ball in a game, and you have him on the hands team for the most important OBVIOUS onside kick in recent team history?

    2. How does Mike McCarthy stick with Dom Capers? You don't know what you're going to get one week to the next, from one quarter to the next. You don't win titles hoping to get great football out of your defense once every two or three games for a part of the game.

    3. How does Mike McCarthy look himself in the flipping mirror this morning with the playcalling after the 4th INT? You know they know it's coming up the gut. You don't even call misdirection with a two back set or put Cobb in the backfield. For that matter, why don't you pull a Belichick and go tackle eligible there just to throw them totally off? You have a QB who is absolute money on short slants and you call THAT.

    My fear coming out of this season is that we hold course. Sure, we made it to the title game, but so much of what happened in the last five minutes is on playcalling, schemes and leadership... If John Fox can mutually part ways with the Broncs, maybe it's time to have that chat with a couple of our guys.

    I would DEARLY love to throw the bank at Dick Lebeau to get this D to play with some steel for 60 minutes and temper Clinton-Dix into the kind of bomb Polamalu was for so many years in Pittsburgh...

    The team isn't terrible and MM isn't a waste, but I can't stand another season of title thwarting inconsistency on D and ST. Enough is enough, with a generational bitter pill of a loss as punctuation...
     
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  2. Dan115

    Dan115 Guest

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    I might see him get rid of slocum
     
  3. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Bostick's job wasn't even to catch it. He was supposed to block and let Jordy get it.

    Besides, he's a TE, meaning he regularly catches passes. TE's should be on the hands team.
     
  4. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    I get that he's a TE, and his role is to catch balls. On paper, his inclusion makes sense.

    I'm just curious as to why a TE who can't hang on to the ball as a matter of routine is on the field when you know Seattle is going to be making the only play they can make- to kick it short and go get it.

    Put someone on the field who has better hands. Who cares if they can block. I've seen a ton of obvious onside kicks where the receiving team completely blows up the traditional unit and puts the best 11 sets of hands on the field PERIOD regardless of size. They're only there to catch the ball, not return it.

    To me, it's another in a long list of non-adjustments Slocum has a propensity for that demonstrates he's a reactive guy who only learns by remediating blunders. That's who we have coaching special teams: blunder fixer, not scheme innovator...
     
  5. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    As TE, he probably is one the best 11 sets of hands on the team. That is a routine grab that is made the vast majority of the time.

    I don't see how Slocum could have predicted Bostick would have ignored his job, try to catch the ball, and whiff it.

    It was an easy play for Bostick to make and he failed.
     
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  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    they got 4 ints and a fumble, held wilson to a 0 rating in 1st half..

    the D played the damn hearts out and with 5 mins to go they got wore out..

    this lands all on the offense, they should been up 24-0 at half
     
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  7. dbain21

    dbain21 Chicagoland Packer Fan

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    ^^yep, its just as much on the offense, if not more so. You got the mvp a top 3 o-line, and the rookie of the year last year. As well as the first WR duo to have however many td's and yards cobb/nelson had. The offense didn't do enough. The D did what they had to do to win. Isn't that all we ask of them come playoffs?
     
  8. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    Exactly. They took the ball away 4 times, were they supposed to score all of the points too? For 55 minutes they made Wilson not only a non-factor but a liability for his team.

    The way they were playing it makes the decision to not go for it on those two goal line situations even more hard to fathom. Worst case Seattle gets the ball on their own 1 and our D gets another crack at them.
     
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  9. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    That 3rd and goal play was from about 6 inches out. For the love of God, why is the QB sneak not even in our playbook?

    Brady is every bit as valuable to the Patriots as Rodgers is to us and they regularly utilize the QB sneak. If Rodgers just goes right behind Linsley I have every bit of confidence he's breaking the plane before he can be pushed back.

    That play NEEDS to at least be IN your playbook in that situation. Especially with as much as we struggle in those 3rd/4th and inches situations!
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    you forget Rodgers did that vs Det when is calf was really bad?

    So it is in the playbook and Rodgers called that himself in that game..
     
  11. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    Just saw the OSK for the first time (thank God I could not watch the second half)

    Green Bay has a discipline problem. Bostick didn't do his job, if he blocks (Mathews) the ball falls into Jordys lap. Daniels doesn't feel compelled to taunt after the 1st half interception we have it first and goal on the 4 instead of the 19. Langs lack of discipline similarly almost cost us the Dallas game. I saw Rodgers flapping his yap at Mathews in the first half, maybe he should have focused his mind on making throws (he missed several in the first half to wide open targets. Lack of discipline, lack of focus, huge reason we lost this game. That can't be drafted or signed .... It has to be demanded by those at the top. I'd rather lose a game or two in the early season benching players than have it bite us in the *** at crunch time. I'd rather take my chances with a disciplined professional team on the road, than a bunch of hooligan free lancers at home. Does McCarthy share some blame for play calling and strategy? Yes, but players lost this game Bostick, Dix, Burnett, Daniels, RODGERS, Nelson and many other all did things or failed to do things that lost this game. OWN IT Packer players.... And move forward!!
     
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  12. PackerXLV

    PackerXLV Cheesehead

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    Completely agree
     
  13. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    100% agree, and it gags me to agree with Skip Bayless this one time, but in addition to MM's game decisions, I hold AR as responsible as anyone else for the loss. I fear he's turning into a Peyton Manning while Russell Wilson is the Tom Brady of our era: Rodgers kills in the regular season but is mediocre in the playoffs; Wilson is clutch.
     
  14. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Somehow I'm feeling something similar. I don't think it's lack of discipline but rather something like a team attitude. Something just hasn't seemed right with this team in the playoffs ever since 2010. I don't see the fire, the determination, I don't see the quiet confidence in themselves, I don't see the willingness to take the risk and lay it all out there.

    I correct myself somewhat, I thought the Packer defense laid it all out there last Sunday, and that's what made the collapse so shocking.

    Somehow I feel that this team needs a change of attitude, and that's where some coaching change and coaching philosophy changes are needed. I'm not saying that McCarthy should be fired, although I believe that Slocum should, but rather that someone, an OC be brought in who might energize this offense with a more aggressive attitude.
     
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  15. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree the Packers should get rid of Slocum. Aside of punt returns the special teams have been awful all season and the two huge mistakes in the NFCCG are unacceptable.

    The defense played lights out for 55 minutes vs. the Seahawks and was vastly improved in the second half of the season. Capers proved that he´s capable of putting a good defense on the field as long as his unit isn´t hit by tons of injuries. Thompson has to improve the ILB position and the defense should be fine.

    I have really no explanation for what happened in the last five minutes of the game. It seems like the Packers stopped playing once Burnett intercepted Wilson for the fourth time. McCarthy deserves blame for calling three run plays when the Seahawks loaded the box. I really don´t understand playing scared in this situation cause even if we turn over the ball at that moment WE WERE UP BY TWO SCORES!!! There is a time and place for a four minute offense but McCarthy clearly went the conservative way too early.

    LeBeau is 77 years old, I don´t think he would be a good choice as DC.
     
  16. HaHa'sRightGlove

    HaHa'sRightGlove Cheesehead

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    I agree to some extent, but I think the reason we carry so many linebackers and tight ends on our team is because of the sheer size of them on special teams. Load the blocking team with tight ends and linebackers who have size and atheltci ability and let Jordy Nelson catch it.

    If you watch the play again, it wasn't a case of the ball falling to Bostick and he had to make the play- he made a decision before the ball was kicked to recover that football. The blocking team were fast off the blocks to run towards the Seahawks, where as Bostick immediately started searching for the ball, he had no intention of blocking.

    [​IMG]

    The white circle is where the ball is, and Bostick only has eyes for that...
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    What makes it even worse is that Bostick was supposed to block Chris Matthews who ended up recovering the onside kick.
     
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  18. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    Maybe it's a shortcoming of the Packers' policy of keeping the team young. They just aren't a particularly football smart and savvy team when it comes to the big moments of these big games. Communication issues, assignment breakdowns, situational awareness and better judgment require experience. The Packers should look, particularly on defense, for more and better veteran presence and leadership than they've had for several seasons now.

    Mike McCarthy and Dom Capers, maybe Shawn Slocum, too, are like the generals and politicians at supreme headquarters who draw up these grand plans and schemes but on the field, in that "fog of war," things screw up because they don't have the line officers and nco's to lead the boots on the ground.
     
  19. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    Hey,
    There's an argument to be made that MM played it too safe when they could sniff the goal line twice and only got 6. I figure if you run it and don't get in, they have to go 99 yards. How many punts get you that field position advantage? I tend to agree that we came away with too little against a team that's just too good. It's like we forgot our opening loss and how momentum got away from us then...

    There are so many other goats besides Bostick. Clinton-Dix watched that convert float after ball hawking with amazing anticipation. Gone for 6, game.

    Burnett runs another 15 yards after intercepting that ball, game.

    Hawk, covers the receiver on the fake. Game.

    Mass system failure on any number of fronts. Uggh.

    That said, I still think that MM's predilection for staying true to staff that simply don't excel is a detriment. Slocum's shortcomings go back several seasons, and it's more than time for him to go. True, Bostick should just catch the d*** ball if he's going to go up and get it. On the other hand, he's notoriously unreliable as a pass catcher. Why not sub Richard Rodgers in for him there for that moment? It's these minute adjustments that tell me this guy simply isn't top material and will only adjust after the game. You win with coaches who adjust in game before it's too late.

    I get continuity. I don't think you fire everyone. But Slocum is subpar, and he's not a reason we're winning. Find us a coach for special teams who will be one, that's all I'm saying...
     
  20. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I never understand why teams settle for 3 from the 1 foot line. The field position advantage is so good even if you miss that you've got them so far backed up that it changes their offense back there. They have to stay conservative or risk a safety. You stand a good chance of either getting 2 of those 3 points anyway plus the ball, or getting it back quickly in their territory for another shot at 3 or 7.

    Unless it's the difference between a 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 score game late, kicking from that close and starting back over with the kickoff makes no strategic sense to me.
     
  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Richard Rodgers was on the field on the onside kick as well. While I agree that Slocum should get fired this one is completely on Brandon Bostick. The fake FG is a different story though.
     
  22. maxlives

    maxlives Cheesehead

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    I am still too pissed off to discuss this implosion. Focusing on next year, I expect to see a pissed off, sharply focused, dominating football team in Green Bay. OR, more of the same and a decision whether to continue the NFL Sunday Ticket looking me in the face. Tired of all the talk and analysis, I will wait to see what next season brings. go Pack.
     
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  23. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Well he could have told the guys when they were practicing this that under NO circumstance do you stray from your assignment. He could have explained how critically important it is to stay with your block regardless of whether you see the ball coming at you in that exact situation. That should have been driven into his mind well before that play ever happened. I can not believe that he would just ignore a point of emphasis like that. Somehow Bostick thought he could make a play on that. He should have been coached to know that was a TERRIBLE thought and to NOT act on it.

    There seems to be a lack of special teams discipline across the boards and that is a DIRECT reflection of their position coach.
     
  24. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    As if Slocum's botch job in a game we may never live down isn't grounds enough to send him packing, check this:

    3. I think the most stunning bit of news in Rick Gosselin’s always-superb ranking of the 32 NFL special-teams units in the Dallas Morning News was this: Green Bay finished 32nd, and had one of the worst seasons by a kicking unit in some time. In the NFL this season, 61 kicks or punts were blocked—and seven of them happened to the Packers.

    from http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/26/super-bowl-49-patriots-seahawks-bill-vinovich-ref/5/

    This guy can't coach. He's terrible. He's always been terrible. If we keep him, we're crippling the capacity of units who are momentum establishing or donating. If our special teams can make ONE play in that game that matters, we're rematching the Patriots almost 20 years after Reggie White sacked Bledsoe three times...
     
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  25. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    As for Dom, I tend to think that he really is a great football mind. The trouble is that he's more a professor than a commander. His defenses tend to look great at first installment when things are simple and dumbed down but eventually things just get... weird. I think Dom's full scheme is too complicated and simply unworkable.
     
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